I watched some interesting programming on the Science channel where several different ideas for permanent human colonies off the earth. The moon (earth's) , Mars, an asteroid, one of the moons of Jupiter or Saturn and finally a large colony living in space. The scientists interviewed made several good arguments for the space based community. The first is the ability, through the use of spin to have a large portion of the space station simulate a 1 g environment. Another would be the ease of going to and coming from the colony, no gravity well to fight on landing or takeoff. A large enough space station would be capable of growing it's own food supply. There would be no possibility of altering the natural development of life as there would be on Mars and some of the major moon candidates. This last problem is a non issue in my mind.

Any thoughts out there? Might give us something less political to wrap our minds around. i get really tired of all the hostility in the political forums, and yes I know I don't have to read or participate in the discussions in the poliitic forum. If there was more activity in the space forums I probably wouldn't open the politics forum.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

I have translated the book "Colonies in space" by Eugene O'Neill. who proposed to assemble space colonies at the Lagrange points. Unfortunately, I have no copy of the book, either in English or Italian, and cannot remember the details of his plans.
Tullio

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China should launch its Tiangong-3 space station. Unfortunately, a US law forbids any cooperation between China and USA. This is sheer stupidity.
Tullio

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I have translated the book "Colonies in space" by Eugene O'Neill. who proposed to assemble space colonies at the Lagrange points. Unfortunately, I have no copy of the book, either in English or Italian, and cannot remember the details of his plans.
Tullio

It seems to be a great read, I'll put it on my TRQ for sure. Thanks for the suggestion !

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Apr 3, 1999 - May 3, 2020

The top 2 computers in the top500 list are Chinese, the third is Swiss, the fourth Japanese, the fifth is the American Titan. Maybe USA can learn something from China.
Tullio

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I think it would be a great idea to build a large spinning space station at the earth-moon lagrange point. It would then be way above all the LEO space junk that threatens the ISS.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

I did not know the cancellation of Tiangong-3. Anyway, the 29 November issue of "Nature" details the results of the Chinese "DAMPE" satellite (DAMPE stand for DArk Matter Positron Electron) which, with Italian equipment aboard, has given new results. after those of the AMS-02 experiment on the ISS, headed by Samuel Ting, a Taiwan Chinese,on the density of electrons ad positrons in space. It seems to me that they are making progress also in space exploration and build their own rockets.
Tullio
As an afterthought about cooperation, the USA is still using Russian Soyuz rockets to sent its astronauts to the ISS. I often wonder how they combine the metric SI system used by the Russians and the Imperial system used by NASA. Grosse casino, as Niki Lauda used to say.

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According to "Nature" of December 7, ESA and NASA are planning an international space station orbiting not the Earth but the Moon. Roscosmos is also interested and so are Canada and Japan. It would be called the Deep Space Gateway. But much depends on the new NASA administrator James Bridenstine, nominated by President Trump, who has still to take his office.
Tullio

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According to "Nature" of December 7, ESA and NASA are planning an international space station orbiting not the Earth but the Moon. Roscosmos is also interested and so are Canada and Japan. It would be called the Deep Space Gateway. But much depends on the new NASA administrator James Bridenstine, nominated by President Trump, who has still to take his office.
Tullio

I think it is a great idea, even somewhat better, for now, than trying to build a base on the moon. Especially if they build it big enough to spin it so there can be a 1g environment on at least a portion of the space station.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

According to "Nature" of December 7, ESA and NASA are planning an international space station orbiting not the Earth but the Moon.

Cosmic radiation?

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That may be a problem since the Moon has no magnetic field like the Earth's. Here is what NASA says so far:
The agency began studying the deep space gateway concept with U.S. industry and space station partners. Using the most powerful rocket in the world, NASA would launch a power and propulsion element, habitation module for crew, and logistics module for the gateway concept in the early crewed missions of SLS and Orion.
Tullio

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Cosmic radiation?

I would think that would be a big hurdle.

And what about micro-meteorites? I'm surprised the current ISS hasn't had any issues with those, or even orbiting space junk debris.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

I'm surprised the current ISS hasn't had any issues with those, or even orbiting space junk debris.

They have. As they haven't had a spectacular failure it doesn't make the news.
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/09/iss-evaluate-mmod-strike-cupola-window/

Part of the solution to the radiation problem would be the storage of the station water supply to act as shielding. But since cosmic rays come from most any direction surrounding the inhabitants with a shield of water may be impractical. It might be more practical to generate an electromagnetic shield. If no reliable means of shielding can be developed then probably long term residence on a space station or in space anywhere may not be possible.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

I'm surprised the current ISS hasn't had any issues with those, or even orbiting space junk debris.

It is well known that the ISS regularly alters it's orbital height by a few miles up or down to miss orbiting space junk. That is achieved by firing attached spacecraft thrusters, or by using their own thrusters.

I wonder how often they have to do that? They also must have a pretty sophisticated radar system to detect incoming projectiles quickly enough so they can make evasive maneuvers.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

I'm surprised the current ISS hasn't had any issues with those, or even orbiting space junk debris.

It is well known that the ISS regularly alters it's orbital height by a few miles up or down to miss orbiting space junk. That is achieved by firing attached spacecraft thrusters, or by using their own thrusters.

I wonder how often they have to do that? They also must have a pretty sophisticated radar system to detect incoming projectiles quickly enough so they can make evasive maneuvers.

They are warned from the ground by the Air Force tracking force at Cheyenne Mountain. They monitor all orbital space junk larger than a couple of centimeters. This goes on 24/7 365 days a year. As far as I know the ISS has no warning radar of it's own.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

How large a spacecraft would be necessary to create gravity? Is a spinning one the easiest way to do it?

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

Is a spinning one the easiest way to do it?

Probably, until the LIGO people figure out something unimaginable.

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Well the larger the diameter the slower it needs to spin. I would have to read up on the subject to give a definite answer. Something about the size of the space station in the movie "2001 a Space Odyssey" would be my guess.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

I don't see how NASA can ever get any long range planning done with one president saying do it this way, and then another president saying, "oh wait", "no, do it this way".

As far as the latest proclamation, Trump needs to put the money where his mouth is.

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place