Distribution charges are an issue here in the US as well. I cannot speak for all utilities, but PG&E already has a distribution charge built into the energy bill. If you do reduce the amount of energy you purchase from them, the distribtuion charge does not change. Even if you 100% self produced (solar, wind, bio-fuel, hydro) you will still see the distribution charge. If you disconnect from the grid, you have now entered a gray area where there is no existing law to direct what the utility can do. Belive me they are lobbing for the right to require everyone, connected or not to pay a distribution charge.

if i'm not connected how they gonna charge me no account no charge and even if they would send me a bill for nothing i would not pay a dime

the power company tried to screw with me before after i prooved they been messing with the electronic meters ... they ended up paying me back 8500$ for the years they ripped me off

As I said there is no law on how to treat non-customers yet. It is being debated. Existing customers are paying a distribution charge. Here is how PG&E is dealing with customers. If you listen carefully, you will hear PG&E has a basic fee. That is the transmission, taxes and other fees.

Because energy companies are seeing less and less revenue as people add generation capacity, they see a point in time when they will not be able to maintain the energy network. Companies argue that an energy network is essential and that government should start taking steps to insures it's continued existence. There have been several suggestions that range from charging people who do install solar more to establishing a flat transmission fee that will be paid by everyone. Again, these are suggestions. The debate continues, but it is an issue that (IMHO) will be legislated within the next 5 years.

I hadn't thought about it before, but I supposed the utilities are starting to see reduced revenue due to home solar while their costs of maintaining the distribution network are staying the same or rising. Even worse, with the right equipment, home generated power goes back into the grid, meaning essentially that the utility is paying to maintain the grid that you are using to sell your excess power to your neighbors.

It's kind of the same problem the Highway Trust Fund is having: cars are (by government mandate) becoming more fuel efficient, meaning they use less gas (or none for electric cars); less gas used means less gas tax collected to pay for building and fixing the roads, but the more-efficient cars are still producing just as much wear and tear on the roads. Result: the trust fund has been short for several years, being shored up by Congress out of general revenues.

However, I don't see how anyone can justify charging a fee if you aren't connected to the grid at all.

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

The estimated life of the panels is supposed to be 25 yesrs.

Does that take into account a thunderstorm or two a year with minor hail?

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

Oh and anyone had any experience of selling a house with panels all over the roof? I would be very iffy buying one!

We are in the process of adding the cost of our new solar system to our home owners insurance. It has increased the value of our home and if we lost our home in a fire we would want to rebuild it - including the solar system.

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Carlos, PACE sounds like our Green Deal. You try selling a house with a Green deal debt hanging over it, they immediately drop the price that you ask! People will not take on other peoples debts.

I have sold just over 400 of them. I created one development where I used bond financing to maintain some of the green features, like parks and storm water recharge system. It added about $380 in property tax per year. My sales people said only 2 people objected to the extra tax. The houses sold for a lot more than I had projected.

As for resale, well I live in the sun belt. I looked at recent sales (last 6 months) and found several examples of two track houses that are nearly identical except that one with solar and the other not. The ones with solar typically sold for $30-$80,000 more than the one without.

One friend out here installed solar about a year ago. He tells me that his electric bill typically was $250-300 a month in the summer. Now it's $100 to Solar City and $10 to the power company. In the winter he gets a check from the power company, usually more than the $100 he pays Solar City.

While I understand your perception about trying to sell a house that has a debt on it, it seems that the benefit of solar is outweighing that.

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I think it would be fair to say that in the UK our biggest energy bills are in the winter, when it is colder, damper, and duller. So we have the heating on, driers on and lights on for more of the time, this being "off-set" by the fact that there are fewer hours of daylight....

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Speaking of weather events. I know storms of this intensity do not happen often. But a coworker lost all the glass on one side of his home. The front door looks like a five pound hammer was used to beat on it. Just a nasty hail storm. Other homes in the area got similar treatment.

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Would love to have solar for electricity. As Ang said your roof has to be in exellent condition, mine tiles are aproaching the end of their life cycle. My HOA can't say squack about them being on a roof, but might forbid it on a great spot of brown lawn I have.
Anyway, that will be in the future.
I did have solar water in the 80/90s, but the roofers broke it. Didn't even think about filing a claim. Again a good tip Angela to make sure it is covered with your homeowners policy.

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Pluto will always be a planet to me.

Seti Ambassador
Not to late to order an Anni Shirt

I think it would be fair to say that in the UK our biggest energy bills are in the winter, when it is colder, damper, and duller. So we have the heating on, driers on and lights on for more of the time, this being "off-set" by the fact that there are fewer hours of daylight....

How about double glazing in the UK?
Here we even have triple glazing:)

All new homes in the UK have to achieve certain levels of thermal insulation, how this is achieved is up to the builder, with each surface type having a specific target. Double glazing is the preferred method for the windows. Triple glazing is rare in the southern half of the country, as we don't "enjoy" the harsh winters you do in Scandinavia.

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Found an interesting article today:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22730312-000-uk-is-perfectly-placed-to-use-100-per-cent-renewable-power/?utm_source=NSNS

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Music
Pictures

Found an interesting article today:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22730312-000-uk-is-perfectly-placed-to-use-100-per-cent-renewable-power/?utm_source=NSNS

Can't read that without registering first. I try to maintain my privacy. Well I try. So can't read it. Oh well. Must have be interesting for you to have posted it.

Thank's Vic.
Interesting story. I have interviewed with NextERA for a job to manage Environmental Affairs in the Pacific region. (CA, OR, WA) If they buy Hawaii's grid I wonder if that would be added to my region? Could be a better job that I thought.

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Off the Grid in a Florida Suburb, Fighting Municipal Code

Two 55-gallon cisterns collect all the Florida rainwater Speronis needs for drinking, bathing, and flushing waste. The city told her it was illegal to disconnect from municipal pipes

In Cape Coral, Fla., a city of snowbird retirees and strip malls off the Caloosahatchee River, there’s a part of town that never quite recovered from the real estate bust. Foreclosure notices spill from the mailboxes of homes lining the city’s shallow canals and gather in trash drifts by the front doors. Weeds run riot in the yards of properties built for no money down in the flush days and then abandoned when they went underwater.

Even amid the eerie detritus, the small ranch-style duplex that Robin Speronis moved into in January 2013 is a little unusual. For one thing, Speronis, an energetic 54-year-old widow with cropped blonde hair and stark blue eyes, never had the city turn on the power or water. She set two 55-gallon plastic cisterns on either side of the entranceway and attached gutter downspouts to collect rainwater. She perched a small solar charger on a windowsill with wires snaking inside to a battery that in turn powers a few lights and a laptop. Wireless Internet is siphoned from a nearby Tire Kingdom. Inside, a propane lantern hangs from an unused light fixture in the dining area. Speronis is living off the grid—no power from the city, rainwater her only source for bathing, drinking, and sewage—in the middle of her tumbledown subdivision. It has caused a national furor.

click link above for full article.

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Read the court opinion. She was ordered to connect because she had no way to dispose of the waste water without being connected to the sewer system. She was spraying the un-treated waste water into the air. Otherwise the court said she could disconnect from everything else.

There was an article about solar in my local paper yesterday:

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/tech/science/environment/2015/08/28/solar-campaign-fuels-interest-louisville/32417531/

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The mind is a weird and mysterious place

One thing that the article brings to mind is that in many places the energy supply model is based on large central power supplies.
This model is based the average demand per building. This demand can be reduced by either reducing the actual amount of energy consumed by improvements in the energy consumption of the building, or by replacing the centrally sourced energy by locally produced energy such as PV generation, solar heating, wind generation. The local generation is attractive for the individual, but might become a bit of an issue for the central generator if the number of local generators becomes significant - it throws their model out of balance. It may, in the long term lead to a reduction in demand for the big steady state producers (coal/nuclear plants) and increase the demand for rapid reaction plant....

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Read the court opinion. She was ordered to connect because she had no way to dispose of the waste water without being connected to the sewer system. She was spraying the un-treated waste water into the air. Otherwise the court said she could disconnect from everything else.

I can understand that. Only problem I see is that they usually base the wastewater bill on the water bill. If she's not using water, how do they know how much to bill her for waste?

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

Read the court opinion. She was ordered to connect because she had no way to dispose of the waste water without being connected to the sewer system. She was spraying the un-treated waste water into the air. Otherwise the court said she could disconnect from everything else.

I can understand that. Only problem I see is that they usually base the wastewater bill on the water bill. If she's not using water, how do they know how much to bill her for waste?

I dont think she was charged for a fee of consumption.
AFAIK all urban houses are charged an annual fee to be connected to the electrical, water and sewer grids.

Read the court opinion. She was ordered to connect because she had no way to dispose of the waste water without being connected to the sewer system. She was spraying the un-treated waste water into the air. Otherwise the court said she could disconnect from everything else.

I can understand that. Only problem I see is that they usually base the wastewater bill on the water bill. If she's not using water, how do they know how much to bill her for waste?

I dont think she was charged for a fee of consumption.
AFAIK all urban houses are charged an annual fee to be connected to the electrical, water and sewer grids.

Maybe in Sweden they are, but in the USA? I've never seen that.

But do you buy a house without electricy and water in the US?
Maybe in Detroit right now but that is not the normal I think.

But do you buy a house without electricity and water in the US?
Maybe in Detroit right now but that is not the normal I think.

Electric utilities only charge for electricity, there is a cost for hookup, if one is a new customer or a deposit for service to start, but that's it, water is much the same here, there are no fees here.

Strange.
The cost of the infrastructur to distribute electricity and water is quite big.
Every house is connected to that structur.
Somehow one have to pay for it.
We have fees and taxes to pay for it.