If anyone is interested, the live Healing service Emanuel A.M.E. Church - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/21/emanuel-african-methodist_n_7630652.html

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I don't buy computers, I build them!!

Thanks for the heads up Cliff, I attended services Friday night at the Shorter A.M.E. Church here. Very emotional.

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

..
Get the nut jobs off the streets and keep them off.

Or simply just not give them guns?

How about we make a persons medical record availible for scrutiny when one buys a gun? Your crimimal history is allowed but not your medical history. WHY?

Because that makes no sense. Statistically, people with a mental illness are far more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators. Furthermore, it has been proven time and time again that these people can get their hands on guns without actually buying them. Adam Lanza didn't buy any guns, he took the ones his mother had bought for herself. Other people get their guns as gifts from friends or family. No background check will prevent that.

Here is a good article about why we stop blaming this on mental illnesses.

Nice rant. Obviously this person feels that perfectly sane people go out and commit mass murder. He even says he has never heard a mental health person say that committing mass murder is an act of insanity. Of course not. If they defined it to be insanity then there could be no judicial punishment for the crime, NOT GUILTY by reason of insanity. Isn't circular logic in a rant fun?!

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Nice rant. Obviously this person feels that perfectly sane people go out and commit mass murder. He even says he has never heard a mental health person say that committing mass murder is an act of insanity. Of course not. If they defined it to be insanity then there could be no judicial punishment for the crime, NOT GUILTY by reason of insanity. Isn't circular logic in a rant fun?!

Not guilty by reason of insanity does not mean that you didn't do it. It actually means that you did, but that you can't be held legally responsible for your actions. So no circular logic there.

And yes, perfectly sane people have gone out to commit mass murder. The mental illness defense is being used almost exclusively for white mass murders. If you aren't white and you do this, you get labeled a terrorist or a thug. Being sane, ie being in full control over your thoughts and actions does not mean you make the same moral and value judgements like everyone else. This Dylann Roof was perfectly sane when he shot 9 people. His racist attitudes and ideas just led him to the conclusion that shooting people was the right thing to do.

That is why racism is such a problem, it leads sane people to believe its okay to shoot other people on the basis of their skin color. And that is why this mental illness defense is a cop out, because it allows you to dismiss the underlying ideas and ignore the real problems that cause this.

What's happened is very horrible . I live in Britain but have got family in the States and have been over to visit them once . I think what's hard for people who ain't American is that its a totally different culture over there .
Its nothing like in Britain or on the continent , I live in a small village called Melton , Ipswich is the nearest big town and things are different there and that's 9 miles away . Then London is 65 / 70 miles away but that is like a totally different place again . There's 6 or 7 thousand miles of ocean separating the countrys and the cultures .
The 2nd Amendment I think it is was written ages ago and the country's evolved maybe your constitution does need to be looked at aint for me to say.
We had Hungerford and Dunblane in the uk and that brort changes to the law here . 99.99% of people who LEGALLY own firearms and use them RESPONSIBLY im sure but it only takes 1 person who "goes off" on one or "flips out" to cause something like what's happened at that church and then there's what's happened at the schools in the last few years .
You have got to draw a line and say "enough is enough" coz things just keep getting worse

And yes, perfectly sane people have gone out to commit mass murder. The mental illness defense is being used almost exclusively for white mass murders. If you aren't white and you do this, you get labeled a terrorist or a thug.

Stalin, Hitler, Vlad, Vasily Blokhin, Batang Kali, My Lai, Operation Condor, Charles Manson ... and the list goes on an on. But we can't put Pol Pot on the list because he isn't white.

His racist attitudes and ideas just led him to the conclusion that shooting people was the right thing to do.

That is the definition of insanity. A danger to themselves or others! {ed: It is called paranoia, they are coming to get me, read his manifesto} I'm sorry that you can't see this simple fact and have it confused with the legal standard of knowing if an act is "wrong."

Circular logic exposed.

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Stalin, Hitler, Vlad, Vasily Blokhin, Batang Kali, My Lai, Operation Condor, Charles Manson ... and the list goes on an on. But we can't put Pol Pot on the list because he isn't white.

You should read up on your history. The first few are dictators and while they are responsible for getting a lot of people killed, they never pulled any triggers themselves. Furthermore, only Charles Manson is an American, and he is not a spree killer. Actually, did he even kill someone personally, or did he just gave the order while his little cult did the rest?

In any case, we are talking about spree killers here. If they are white, they were mentally ill, if they are not white, they are terrorists or something along those lines.

That is the definition of insanity. A danger to themselves or others! {ed: It is called paranoia, they are coming to get me, read his manifesto} I'm sorry that you can't see this simple fact and have it confused with the legal standard of knowing if an act is "wrong."

Circular logic exposed.

Actually you should read up on your definition of insanity because "being a danger to themselves or others" is definitely not the definition insane. No, the common definition means that you are either suffering from a mental illness, or that you behave in an utterly irrational way. And no, as distasteful and wrong racism is, it is not necessarily irrational. Being wrong about something does not mean you are irrational about it.

This guy was completely aware and in control over his actions, therefor sane enough to know that what he did was wrong. He even admits this when he said he almost didn't want to go through with it because all those people were so nice to him. It shows he was aware of his surroundings, of the people around him, of the consequences of his actions, and still he CHOSE to go through with it.

Sorry, this guy was sane. Stop saying he wasn't, stop pretending that this wasn't about race, stop pretending that if you lock up all the mentally insane people you will prevent spree killers, for once deal with the actual issues, rather than hide behind the mentally insane so you can protect your precious guns and pretend that racism is no longer a thing.

Stalin, Hitler, Vlad, Vasily Blokhin, Batang Kali, My Lai, Operation Condor, Charles Manson ... and the list goes on an on. But we can't put Pol Pot on the list because he isn't white.

You should read up on your history. The first few are dictators and while they are responsible for getting a lot of people killed, they never pulled any triggers themselves. Furthermore, only Charles Manson is an American, and he is not a spree killer. Actually, did he even kill someone personally, or did he just gave the order while his little cult did the rest?

In any case, we are talking about spree killers here. If they are white, they were mentally ill, if they are not white, they are terrorists or something along those lines.

That is the definition of insanity. A danger to themselves or others! {ed: It is called paranoia, they are coming to get me, read his manifesto} I'm sorry that you can't see this simple fact and have it confused with the legal standard of knowing if an act is "wrong."

Circular logic exposed.

Actually you should read up on your definition of insanity because "being a danger to themselves or others" is definitely not the definition insane. No, the common definition means that you are either suffering from a mental illness, or that you behave in an utterly irrational way. And no, as distasteful and wrong racism is, it is not necessarily irrational. Being wrong about something does not mean you are irrational about it.

This guy was completely aware and in control over his actions, therefor sane enough to know that what he did was wrong. He even admits this when he said he almost didn't want to go through with it because all those people were so nice to him. It shows he was aware of his surroundings, of the people around him, of the consequences of his actions, and still he CHOSE to go through with it.

Sorry, this guy was sane. Stop saying he wasn't, stop pretending that this wasn't about race, stop pretending that if you lock up all the mentally insane people you will prevent spree killers, for once deal with the actual issues, rather than hide behind the mentally insane so you can protect your precious guns and pretend that racism is no longer a thing.

This.

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Reality Internet Personality

Super YOUNG Brainiac making Clyde seem 'Uneducated' and 'Unintelligent' and Wiggo Deliriously Giddy said:

...so you can protect your precious guns and pretend that racism is no longer a thing.

Europeans, Northern North Americans, Down Unders, Scandis, and Others shO gots A Fascination with 'Precious Guns', 'Racism' and Da GOoD ole U S of A.

Don't Worry. Your People, Your Land, Your Way of Life will Not Be Influenced by US.

Unless Your OBSESSION and Fascination with GOoD ole U S of A 'is' Contagious, and Hate 'is' A Virus.

Geez O Flip

Yep.

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Don't Worry. Your People, Your Land, Your Way of Life will Not Be Influenced by US.

Gooba you can't be serious mate you all ways try and infuence other country's . So Go back to good old U.S of A, NRA and stop trying to change our gun laws buy undermining the system with you garbadge about having a gun register .

The first step in undermining the gun controls here . We are not as silly as you lot are .

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Stalin, Hitler, Vlad, Vasily Blokhin, Batang Kali, My Lai, Operation Condor, Charles Manson ... and the list goes on an on. But we can't put Pol Pot on the list because he isn't white.

You should read up on your history. The first few are dictators and while they are responsible for getting a lot of people killed, they never pulled any triggers themselves. Furthermore, only Charles Manson is an American, and he is not a spree killer. Actually, did he even kill someone personally, or did he just gave the order while his little cult did the rest?

In any case, we are talking about spree killers here. If they are white, they were mentally ill, if they are not white, they are terrorists or something along those lines.

What is the next condition you will add, full moon on a Tuesday?

That is the definition of insanity. A danger to themselves or others! {ed: It is called paranoia, they are coming to get me, read his manifesto} I'm sorry that you can't see this simple fact and have it confused with the legal standard of knowing if an act is "wrong."

Circular logic exposed.

Actually you should read up on your definition of insanity because "being a danger to themselves or others" is definitely not the definition insane. No, the common definition means that you are either suffering from a mental illness, or that you behave in an utterly irrational way. And no, as distasteful and wrong racism is, it is not necessarily irrational. Being wrong about something does not mean you are irrational about it.

WIC 5150 wrote:

5150. (a) When a person, as a result of a mental health disorder, is a danger to others, or to himself or herself, or gravely disabled,

Wiki:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5150_%28involuntary_psychiatric_hold%29 wrote:

The criteria for writing requires probable cause. These include danger to self; danger to others together with some indication, prior to the administering of the hold, of symptoms of a mental disorder; and/or grave disability, as noted below. The conditions must exist within the context of a mental illness.

Danger to self: The person must be a threat to themselves due to mental disorder. Being a threat to oneself is not limited to being suicidal; this criterion can be met in other ways. For example, the intention to respond to the delusion that there is a computer chip embedded under one's skin by digging it out with a knife meets the criterion.
Danger to others: The person must be a threat to someone else's safety due to mental disorder.
Gravely disabled:
Adult (patients over 18 years of age): The "objective finding that the person, due to mental disorder, is incapacitated or rendered unable to carry out the transactions necessary for survival or otherwise provide for his or her basic needs of food, clothing, or shelter." "Bizarre or eccentric behavior, even if it interferes with a person's normal intercourse with society, does not" meet this criterion, unless "where such behavior renders the individual helpless to fend for self or destroys his or her ability to meet those basic needs for survival." [3] In theory, a mentally disordered person who is receiving sufficient care to survive disqualifies the individual from meeting the grave disability criterion.
Minor (patients under 18 years of age): Is the same criterion as for an adult, with the additional condition that even if a caregiver is offering sufficient assistance for the minor to survive, if the minor is unable to make appropriate use of food, clothing, and/or shelter, then the minor meets this criterion. For example, a psychotic adolescent refusing to eat because they believe their parents are poisoning the food they are in fact providing meets this criterion.

This guy was completely aware and in control over his actions, therefor sane enough to know that what he did was wrong.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/current-application-of-the-insanity-defense.html wrote:

It is an affirmative defense to a prosecution under any Federal statute that, at the time of the commission of the acts constituting the offense, the defendant, as a result of a severe mental disease or defect, was unable to appreciate the nature and quality of the wrongfulness of his acts. Mental disease or defect does not otherwise constitute a defense.

Note the law talks about "mental disease or defect," it does not use the word insane. Hence we go to the dictionary:
Dictionary wrote:

insane: adjective
in a state of mind that prevents normal perception, behavior, or social interaction; seriously mentally ill: certifying patients as clinically insane | he had gone insane.
• (of an action or quality) characterized or caused by madness: charging headlong in an insane frenzy | his eyes glowing with insane fury.
• in a state of extreme annoyance or distraction: a fly whose buzzing had been driving me insane.
• (of an action or policy) extremely foolish; irrational or illogical: she had an insane desire to giggle.

Again Mr. conflate two different standards, there are two definitions in law, one used to take you off the street and prevent gun ownership, another to excuse you from punishment. They are different. But they are both "insane."

He even admits this when he said he almost didn't want to go through with it because all those people were so nice to him. It shows he was aware of his surroundings, of the people around him, of the consequences of his actions, and still he CHOSE to go through with it.

Sorry, this guy was sane.

For punishment, perhaps. Not sane to be walking the streets. Clearly he was paranoid that the blacks were raping whites and taking over and he clearly was a danger to blacks. Meets the definition in WIC 5150, ergo Insane.

Stop saying he wasn't, stop pretending that this wasn't about race, stop pretending that if you lock up all the mentally insane people you will prevent spree killers, for once deal with the actual issues, rather than hide behind the mentally insane so you can protect your precious guns and pretend that racism is no longer a thing.

Of course this was about racism, you and Rupert Murdoch are the only persons on the planet I'm aware of who have suggested it isn't about race.

Gun control, isn't anti-racism. You do have to conflate ideas to make sense to yourself, don't you?

Mr. Roof clearly was mentally ill to the point where he could be confined in a mental institution at gunpoint. (Yet you claim that isn't insanity!) He likely still is a danger to himself by confession to a capital crime. Anyone who meets the preconditions for confinement can not legally have a gun, in fact his friends even thought he was nuts to the point they took his gun away from him! Too damn bad they didn't report it to the authorities and instead gave him back his gun.

As far as gun control, which has been the discussion in this thread, Mr. Roof was insane.

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WIC 5150 wrote:

5150. (a) When a person, as a result of a mental health disorder, is a danger to others, or to himself or herself, or gravely disabled,

Wiki:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5150_%28involuntary_psychiatric_hold%29 wrote:

The criteria for writing requires probable cause. These include danger to self; danger to others together with some indication, prior to the administering of the hold, of symptoms of a mental disorder; and/or grave disability, as noted below. The conditions must exist within the context of a mental illness.

Danger to self: The person must be a threat to themselves due to mental disorder. Being a threat to oneself is not limited to being suicidal; this criterion can be met in other ways. For example, the intention to respond to the delusion that there is a computer chip embedded under one's skin by digging it out with a knife meets the criterion.
Danger to others: The person must be a threat to someone else's safety due to mental disorder.
Gravely disabled:
Adult (patients over 18 years of age): The "objective finding that the person, due to mental disorder, is incapacitated or rendered unable to carry out the transactions necessary for survival or otherwise provide for his or her basic needs of food, clothing, or shelter." "Bizarre or eccentric behavior, even if it interferes with a person's normal intercourse with society, does not" meet this criterion, unless "where such behavior renders the individual helpless to fend for self or destroys his or her ability to meet those basic needs for survival." [3] In theory, a mentally disordered person who is receiving sufficient care to survive disqualifies the individual from meeting the grave disability criterion.
Minor (patients under 18 years of age): Is the same criterion as for an adult, with the additional condition that even if a caregiver is offering sufficient assistance for the minor to survive, if the minor is unable to make appropriate use of food, clothing, and/or shelter, then the minor meets this criterion. For example, a psychotic adolescent refusing to eat because they believe their parents are poisoning the food they are in fact providing meets this criterion.

This guy was completely aware and in control over his actions, therefor sane enough to know that what he did was wrong.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/current-application-of-the-insanity-defense.html wrote:

It is an affirmative defense to a prosecution under any Federal statute that, at the time of the commission of the acts constituting the offense, the defendant, as a result of a severe mental disease or defect, was unable to appreciate the nature and quality of the wrongfulness of his acts. Mental disease or defect does not otherwise constitute a defense.

Note the law talks about "mental disease or defect," it does not use the word insane. Hence we go to the dictionary:
Dictionary wrote:

insane: adjective
in a state of mind that prevents normal perception, behavior, or social interaction; seriously mentally ill: certifying patients as clinically insane | he had gone insane.
• (of an action or quality) characterized or caused by madness: charging headlong in an insane frenzy | his eyes glowing with insane fury.
• in a state of extreme annoyance or distraction: a fly whose buzzing had been driving me insane.
• (of an action or policy) extremely foolish; irrational or illogical: she had an insane desire to giggle.

Again Mr. conflate two different standards, there are two definitions in law, one used to take you off the street and prevent gun ownership, another to excuse you from punishment. They are different. But they are both "insane."

Perhaps you should reread what you just quoted. The only thing here that talks about insane is the dictionary you just quoted. The involuntary hold speaks about a mental illness, and the insanity plea also requires the existence of a grave mental illness. So no, there aren't "two standards" in law, there is just one standard and they both require the guy to be diagnosed with severe mental illnesses.

For punishment, perhaps. Not sane to be walking the streets. Clearly he was paranoid that the blacks were raping whites and taking over and he clearly was a danger to blacks. Meets the definition in WIC 5150, ergo Insane.

Except you didnt read the definition laid out in WIC 5150 which clearly states the danger to himself or to others was the result of a mental illness. Racism isn't a mental illness and its from his racists views that this idea of black people taking over the world stems. Which is a very common view among other white supremacists and racists. Unless of course you are advocating that we round up every white supremacist and throw them in a psychiatric ward. And while we are at it, lets just throw every fundamentalist Christian in there as well, given that they all suffer from prosecution complexes. And next lets just throw the rest of the GOP in there as well, given that their delusions have also caused significant harm to themselves and everyone else. Oh, and don't forget about the pro lifers, they all clearly suffer from bouts of extreme irrationality, I'm sure we can tie that to some psychotic disorder as well, and they are clearly a danger to women as well. Actually, lets just throw everyone who isn't a pro choice, pro gay marriage, atheist, vegan, pro vaccination liberal in psychiatric wards.

See the problem with mental illness definitions is that they are so broad literally everyone suffers from multiple types of disorders at any given moment. Read the DSM and see how many disorders you qualify for.

Mr. Roof clearly was mentally ill to the point where he could be confined in a mental institution at gunpoint. (Yet you claim that isn't insanity!) He likely still is a danger to himself by confession to a capital crime. Anyone who meets the preconditions for confinement can not legally have a gun, in fact his friends even thought he was nuts to the point they took his gun away from him! Too damn bad they didn't report it to the authorities and instead gave him back his gun.

As far as gun control, which has been the discussion in this thread, Mr. Roof was insane.

His friends took his gun away after a night of heavy drinking and him yelling some white supremacist nonsense. His friends wrongly attributed it to the alcohol.

As for him being 'mentally ill' well first of all he isn't diagnosed with any kind of mental illness for as far as I know, except by a bunch of armchair psychologists who think racist paranoia equals a mental illness. And second of all, like I said, if we were to follow your extremely low standards of what constitutes a mental illness, everyone could be locked away on a psychiatric ward at any given moment.

President Obama & Vice President Biden will be at the Going Home services at Mother Emanuel A.M.E. Church on Friday where President Obama will deliver the Eulogy for Senator/Reverend Clementa Pinckney. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/22/obama-clementa-pinckney_n_7639438.html

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I don't buy computers, I build them!!

Data summary
Gun crimes by US states
State Total firearms murders, 2011 % change, 2010-11 Fire- arms murders as % of all murders Fire- arms murders rate Fire- arms robb- eries rate Fire- arms assaults rate

United States 8,583 -3 68 2.75 39.25 43.77
Alaska 16 -16 55 2.24 18.19 80.47
Arizona 222 -4 65 3.53 50.24 57.36
Arkansas 110 18 72 4.39 45.45 100.56
California 1,220 -3 68 3.25 42.97 45.39
Colorado 73 12 50 1.51 25.74 45.72
Connecticut 94 -3 73 2.71 34.85 20.06
Delaware 28 -26 68 3.09 69.67 81.36
District of Columbia 77 -22 71 12.46 242.56 87.7
Georgia 370 -2 71 3.93 72.48 58.64
Hawaii 1 -86 14 0.07 n/a n/a
Idaho 17 42 53 1.14 3.41 23.43
Illinois 377 4 83 2.93 2.26 5.26
Indiana 183 29 64 3.29 53.14 29.91
Iowa 19 -10 43 0.71 7.31 21.95
Kansas 73 16 66 2.78 24.86 76.87
Kentucky 100 -14 67 2.36 39.77 25.14
Louisiana 402 15 83 10.16 63.48 99.51
Maine 12 9 48 0.9 5.8 4.52
Maryland 272 -7 68 4.7 79.71 41.18
Massachusetts 122 3 67 2.02 27.84 33.19
Michigan 450 9 73 5.06 55.95 86.41
Minnesota 43 -19 61 0.82 20.11 22.52
Mississippi 138 15 74 7.46 60.07 51.69
Missouri 276 -14 76 4.64 52.47 88.9
Montana 7 -42 39 0.76 3.78 29.03
Nebraska 42 31 65 2.5 25.44 33.84
Nevada 75 -11 58 3.07 69.77 53.3
New Hampshire 6 20 38 0.53 9.83 15.14
New Jersey 269 9 71 3.07 49.87 26.94
New Mexico 60 -10 50 2.98 34.96 87.26
New York 445 -14 57 4.12 23.28 20.06
North Carolina 335 17 69 3.87 48.72 67.44
North Dakota 6 50 50 0.93 4.79 4.79
Ohio 344 11 70 3.54 65.45 37.97
Oklahoma 131 18 64 3.64 42.81 58.07
Oregon 40 11 52 1.05 14.57 17.55
Pennsylvania 470 3 74 3.97 54.69 39.44
Rhode Island 5 -69 36 0.57 12.71 17.86
South Carolina 223 8 70 5.41 52.93 127.88
South Dakota 5 -38 33 0.68 4.91 20.6
Tennessee 244 11 65 3.92 72.88 137.58
Texas 699 -13 64 2.91 50.21 58.28
Utah 26 18 51 0.97 10.98 21.32
Vermont 4 100 50 0.75 4.32 12.6
Virginia 208 -17 69 2.58 35.4 21.35
Washington 79 -15 49 1.25 20.72 28.44
West Virginia 43 59 58 2.87 16.08 52.04
Wisconsin 80 -18 59 1.47 43.86 27.4
Wyoming 11 120 73 2.01 3.65 20.44
RATES ARE PER 100,000 PEOPLE. SOURCE: FBI UNIFORM CRIME REPORTS

NO DATA FOR FLORIDA OR ALABAMA

source for data

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

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Except you didnt read the definition laid out in WIC 5150 which clearly states the danger to himself or to others was the result of a mental illness.

Mental illness to that extent is insane. It doesn't mean permanent.

Racism isn't a mental illness

No, but Mr. Root was not just a racist. Let me quote someone who knows a bit about racism.
Richard Cohen, President, SLPC wrote:

As Morris Dees and I write in The New York Times today, it would be a mistake to view the Charleston church massacre as an isolated, racist hate crime.

Through his symbols and writings, suspect Dylann Storm Roof has expressed sentiments that are uniting white supremacists across the world – from the United States to Europe to Australia.

These extremists are part of an increasingly globalized movement that believes a “white genocide” is under way and that something must be done before it’s too late.

and its from his racists views that this idea of black people taking over the world stems. Which is a very common view among other white supremacists and racists. Unless of course you are advocating that we round up every white supremacist and throw them in a psychiatric ward.

Are you telling me every racist actually believes that a "white genocide" is under way and that "they" are coming for him and he must act with any and every means to stop it? Now if we changed that just a bit and said it is a "tin foil hat genocide" and the "government" is coming for him, does that make the person crazy? Of course it does. But the crazy does not come for the group that the person believes is being persecuted or who is doing the persecution. The crazy comes from the delusion that there is a real persecution and the paranoia that someone is really coming for them. Or perhaps you can't see that the majority of racists can process the difference between inflammatory rhetoric about a genocide and the fact of a real genocide? and/or the need to act out to stop it? That is the crazy! [OBW paranoid delusion is in the DSM. Also the DSM classifies from minor irritation to functional incapacity. I expect that taking a gun to a church to shoot the place up would qualify as functional incapacity.]

Before you claim the quote from Messrs. Dees and Cohen proves you, remember that is was written as inflammatory rhetoric as an op ed piece for publication, so it is likely to include hyperboles and more so this quote which was used in a fund raising letter.

And while we are at it, lets just throw every fundamentalist Christian in there as well, given that they all suffer from prosecution complexes. And next lets just throw the rest of the GOP in there as well, given that their delusions have also caused significant harm to themselves and everyone else. Oh, and don't forget about the pro lifers, they all clearly suffer from bouts of extreme irrationality, I'm sure we can tie that to some psychotic disorder as well, and they are clearly a danger to women as well. Actually, lets just throw everyone who isn't a pro choice, pro gay marriage, atheist, vegan, pro vaccination liberal in psychiatric wards.

My, you have some issues ....

See the problem with mental illness definitions is that they are so broad literally everyone suffers from multiple types of disorders at any given moment. Read the DSM and see how many disorders you qualify for.

Unfortunately the DSM has been watered own significantly due to the forces of politics. Seriously, someone who believes with every fiber that there is a little man in the sky who controls them .... well that does describe ISIL doesn't it! :)

Mr. Roof clearly was mentally ill to the point where he could be confined in a mental institution at gunpoint. (Yet you claim that isn't insanity!) He likely still is a danger to himself by confession to a capital crime. Anyone who meets the preconditions for confinement can not legally have a gun, in fact his friends even thought he was nuts to the point they took his gun away from him! Too damn bad they didn't report it to the authorities and instead gave him back his gun.

As far as gun control, which has been the discussion in this thread, Mr. Roof was insane.

His friends took his gun away after a night of heavy drinking and him yelling some white supremacist nonsense. His friends wrongly attributed it to the alcohol.

As for him being 'mentally ill' well first of all he isn't diagnosed with any kind of mental illness for as far as I know, except by a bunch of armchair psychologists who think racist paranoia equals a mental illness. And second of all, like I said, if we were to follow your extremely low standards of what constitutes a mental illness, everyone could be locked away on a psychiatric ward at any given moment.

I hate to tell you this, but you can be locked away, just because, reread WIC 5150. Keeping you locked up is a different story. But that single WIC 5150 on your record should put you on the list of persons ineligible to purchase firearms, or it would except for HIPPA. And it would at least short term confiscate your firearms.

Unfortunately we will never know if Mr. Roof would have been diagnosed; he wasn't examined. Now the shrinks are hired guns. One hired to swear he is nornal so he can be executed and one hired to claim mental defect so he can't be executed.

If you want to claim you win because he wasn't examined, then so be it, however remember that the lack of a measurement does not change the reality of a situation.

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Are you telling me every racist actually believes that a "white genocide" is under way and that "they" are coming for him and he must act with any and every means to stop it?

Within the white supremacist movement, yes that is an extremely common opinion.

Now if we changed that just a bit and said it is a "tin foil hat genocide" and the "government" is coming for him, does that make the person crazy? Of course it does.

The only reason that would be classified as crazy is because the delusions are to uncommon and fall to far outside the established norm.

But the crazy does not come for the group that the person believes is being persecuted or who is doing the persecution. The crazy comes from the delusion that there is a real persecution and the paranoia that someone is really coming for them. Or perhaps you can't see that the majority of racists can process the difference between inflammatory rhetoric about a genocide and the fact of a real genocide? and/or the need to act out to stop it? That is the crazy!

Oh you think racists only say this stuff because they are looking for attention? I think that would be a mistake. I'm quite convinced that many of those racists truly believe the whole 'we are getting killed' rhetoric. It is a far to common theme among them to be just inflammatory rhetoric. I think you are expecting to much logic and reason from people who believe the Aryan race is inherently superior to all other races. But do they have a mental disorder? No, just like religion isn't a mental disorder either. They are both socially accepted patterns of thought, they do not deviate from the norm by a too wide margin, not even when it drives them to kill.

My, you have some issues ....

Hardly, that is simply your argument taken to its logical conclusion. You defend the mental illness argument by saying that this guy is obviously paranoid and delusional. You say he is paranoid and delusional because he clearly believes in things that are demonstrably false. Well, so do billions of other people. Everyone who follows a religion believes to a greater or lesser extend in ideas that are demonstrably false. Republicans have based almost their entire political platform on ideas are that are factually incorrect. Democrats as well, if maybe to a slightly lesser extend. People who don't vaccinate their children, conspiracy theorists, the list goes on and on. And all of these people pose a danger to other people because of it.

Unfortunately the DSM has been watered own significantly due to the forces of politics. Seriously, someone who believes with every fiber that there is a little man in the sky who controls them .... well that does describe ISIL doesn't it! :)

It also describes billions of other people. I think its safe to say that over half of the world population believes in a little man in the sky who controls everything. According to the DSM they are all suffering from paranoid personality disorder. Better get them to a shrink so they can start popping pills!

I hate to tell you this, but you can be locked away, just because, reread WIC 5150. Keeping you locked up is a different story. But that single WIC 5150 on your record should put you on the list of persons ineligible to purchase firearms, or it would except for HIPPA. And it would at least short term confiscate your firearms.

No, you reread the WIC 5150. It clearly says that you need to pose a danger to yourself or others as the result of a mental illness. Aka, you need to be running around naked, screaming incoherently at people before they can use that rule on you. Displays of intense racial hatred however, are not a mental disorder.

Unfortunately we will never know if Mr. Roof would have been diagnosed; he wasn't examined. Now the shrinks are hired guns. One hired to swear he is nornal so he can be executed and one hired to claim mental defect so he can't be executed.

Nope, this isn't Law and Order, they don't need any psychologists anymore. Now we are talking about the insanity plea or using mental disorders as a mitigating factor, but as I stated earlier, all they care about in the court is whether you were aware and in control over your actions, and he has already demonstrated that he was. That makes him legally responsible to the fullest extend.

If you don't want to kill them, just burn their churches. This happened late Wed. night - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/24/fire-church-north-carolina-arson_n_7658300.html?utm_hp_ref=black-voices&ir=Black%20Voices

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I don't buy computers, I build them!!

This is just unbelievably sad :(

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

This is just unbelievably sad :(

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Are these type of people Fundamentally Racist.

Or are they just Fundamentally Insane, and thereby; just choosing different targets, because of their Insanity?

Race, Religion, Gender, Sexual Orientation, etc.

Or fundamentally Evil, with no differentiation of target, anyone or thing is fair game?

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

For those of you that may have missed our president give the eulogy for Rev. Pincklney, here it is in its entirety ENJOY - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/26/obama-clementa-pinckney-eulogy_n_7670800.html

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I don't buy computers, I build them!!