If every country operated zero tariff trading Brussels would become redundant.

You are under the mistaken illusion that the only barriers to trade are tariffs. In reality, most tariffs all around the world have been significantly reduced or even removed already. The real barriers to trade things like safety regulations, environmental standards, etc. That is what the EU has really done with the internal market, harmonized all those little rules so a product that fits the safety and environmental standards in the Netherlands also fits those standards everywhere else in the EU.

Of course, there is also the added benefit of collective bargaining. The UK negotiating a trade deal with China, China will get the best deal, because compared to the Chinese economy, the UK is just not big enough. But if the EU deals with China, well thats an economy of roughly the same size, so the negotiation position of Europe is a far stronger. United we are strong, divided we are weak. Hence, the UK on its own will be weak.

"United we are thieves, divided we are skint. Hence, the con artists & thieves continue to evangelise that the EU benefits all."

Yes, we know about being "united".

Of course, there is also the added benefit of collective bargaining. The UK negotiating a trade deal with China, China will get the best deal, because compared to the Chinese economy, the UK is just not big enough. But if the EU deals with China, well thats an economy of roughly the same size, so the negotiation position of Europe is a far stronger. United we are strong, divided we are weak. Hence, the UK on its own will be weak.

That all makes relevant sense, but why the need for a United States of Europe?
Having a United States will achieve no more economically than which has been achieved
already under sovereignty country member status. Take away the planed
progression to a United States of Europe and you kill off much of what the
Euro sceptics fight against.

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

What's that newspaper headline, "President Clinton knocking off one of his aids"..
..mighty fine Christian he turned out to be.

President Clinton has Aids?

Or maybe he has aides... bit of a difference.

What's that newspaper headline, "President Clinton knocking off one of his aids"..
..mighty fine Christian he turned out to be.

President Clinton has Aids?

Or maybe he has aides... bit of a difference.

Ahhh, but you knew what I really meant....I hope?

---

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

In terms of collective trading agreed, in terms of not being able to influence EU directives with a power of veto, agreed. But if that means accepting that Brussels can overturn British laws, then it is too high a price for us to pay.

We do well being a member of the EU and to leave would present problems for us economically.
But these problems can be considered short term, challenging but
in no way insurmountable. Loosing your sovereignty and right to control your
country via your own elected government is a step too far. Under these
conditions Europe could never be seen to be a politically settled continent.
Proof......a placed once called USSR.....Yes, history has a habit of repeating
itself. If the continent wishes to go down that road then all well and good,
yet some of us know ultimately where that road will lead to.

---

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

What's that newspaper headline, "President Clinton knocking off one of his aids"..
..mighty fine Christian he turned out to be.

President Clinton has Aids?

Or maybe he has aides... bit of a difference.

Ahhh, but you knew what I really meant....I hope?

Depends whether we take the UK usage of 'making a fake copy' or - er - the other one?

What's that newspaper headline, "President Clinton knocking off one of his aids"..
..mighty fine Christian he turned out to be.

President Clinton has Aids?

Or maybe he has aides... bit of a difference.

Ahhh, but you knew what I really meant....I hope?

Depends whether we take the UK usage of 'making a fake copy' or - er - the other one?

Aides has various meanings: Aides is the Greek god Hades. The aides was a French customs duty.

Oh gawd, you've started something now, Richard.

---

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

This week's dateline is back to its normal, non-confrontational format. The first 10 minutes, at least, will be of interest to followers of this thread - and it is rebroadcast on BBC World, but I don't know if there's any international catch-up service.

In terms of collective trading agreed, in terms of not being able to influence EU directives with a power of veto, agreed. But if that means accepting that Brussels can overturn British laws, then it is too high a price for us to pay.

We do well being a member of the EU and to leave would present problems for us economically.
But these problems can be considered short term, challenging but
in no way insurmountable. Loosing your sovereignty and right to control your
country via your own elected government is a step too far. Under these
conditions Europe could never be seen to be a politically settled continent.
Proof......a placed once called USSR.....Yes, history has a habit of repeating
itself. If the continent wishes to go down that road then all well and good,
yet some of us know ultimately where that road will lead to.

Again, leaving the EU will not get you your sovereignty back. Brussels will still be able to overturn British laws because that will be the price of admission for trading with the EU. Thats the price Norway, Switzerland and Iceland are paying as well. Again, you retain more sovereignty if you stay in the EU where you actually have to agree before national laws can be changed, or in the UK's case, where you can opt out of having the EU rules apply to you.

And even if you remove the EU from the equation all together, your sovereignty still isn't safe. But instead of Brussels changing laws with your input, it will be Russia, China, the US and large corporations changing your laws without any input from you at all. In this globalized world, the UK and every other EU member state is individually to small and weak to have much of a say even over their own territory.

In terms of collective trading agreed, in terms of not being able to influence EU directives with a power of veto, agreed. But if that means accepting that Brussels can overturn British laws, then it is too high a price for us to pay.

We do well being a member of the EU and to leave would present problems for us economically.
But these problems can be considered short term, challenging but
in no way insurmountable. Loosing your sovereignty and right to control your
country via your own elected government is a step too far. Under these
conditions Europe could never be seen to be a politically settled continent.
Proof......a placed once called USSR.....Yes, history has a habit of repeating
itself. If the continent wishes to go down that road then all well and good,
yet some of us know ultimately where that road will lead to.

Again, leaving the EU will not get you your sovereignty back. Brussels will still be able to overturn British laws because that will be the price of admission for trading with the EU. Thats the price Norway, Switzerland and Iceland are paying as well. Again, you retain more sovereignty if you stay in the EU where you actually have to agree before national laws can be changed, or in the UK's case, where you can opt out of having the EU rules apply to you.

And even if you remove the EU from the equation all together, your sovereignty still isn't safe. But instead of Brussels changing laws with your input, it will be Russia, China, the US and large corporations changing your laws without any input from you at all. In this globalized world, the UK and every other EU member state is individually to small and weak to have much of a say even over their own territory.

All very dangerous without the consent of the people behind it. The world
became globalist starting the period of the Roman empire and continued
under the tenure of the British empire. They both brought great civility to
the world during their times. Globalism is nothing new and some of us sense
that something more fishy is going on now...minority interests being put
first. Today people wish more to be informed & consulted upon on issue
regarding the direction they and their country is being taken. Without
consultation you get the potential for confrontation, look to the Arab world
to witness this. So what drives globalism today, one thing, consumerism with
it's reward of profits. Those that make the profits from it know that the
more they make the greater is their power to tune and direct markets to take
a course that best suits their own interests. It does not end here with
these profit makers for they realise that to achieve their ultimate aim they
need to direct politics to take a course that further benefits their
business interests....the Koch brothers come to mind here.

I'm beginning to wonder if the wealth and power hungry brigade realise that,
one day, wealth will become immaterial. With the loss of it's stature so
goes their ability to control and influence the way they have and some
families have for several hundred years....i.e. the Roth's. That's all
another story but the big money boys are going to fight against and hold
back that technology that will one day make wealth one thing that most if
not all those on this planet will not need so can not be influenced by.
...I bet that's got you all thinking???

---

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Lewes has requested an invasion from the world's newest nation, the People’s Republic of Brighton and Hove. :)

As Sirius B will recall, some time ago we already declared independence in the Isle of Wight. I think he was Chancellor and I was Home Secretary, or something like that. And also Citizen Smith was leader of the Tooting Popular Front. Kids of your age are too young to know.

Independence still going strong, been down on Shanklin beach keeping my
eye open for any potential illegal boat people trying to nip in.
But of course, I haven't told the islanders that they have been taken over
and are now independent of the UK. I took a leaf out from the Brussels book
on, "How to overthrow a democratic society" by telling no one anything
unless they ask. Well, since they don't know what we are doing then there
aren't any awkward questions being asked of us. If by chance someone over
there gets a sniff of something going on then I'll have to consult first
with you and Sirius before an answer can be given. But as time goes on the
islanders will have to be informed of their new status. This will have no
effect though upon those who now rule the island, the rulers positions
are non negotiable for the rulers select within themselves who's going
to run the show...another leaf out from the Brussels book. A very
interesting book is this indeed, co-written and edited by Mugabe, now where
have I heard that name before??

---

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

This is funny.

Cornish nationalism is a cultural, political and social movement that seeks the recognition of Cornwall – the south-westernmost part of the island of Great Britain – as a nation distinct from England. It is usually based on three general arguments:
that Cornwall has a Celtic cultural identity separate from that of England, and that the Cornish people have a national, civic or ethnic identity separate from that of English people;
that Cornwall should be granted a degree of devolution or autonomy, usually in the form of a Cornish national assembly;[1]
and that Cornwall is legally a territorial and constitutional Duchy with the right to veto Westminster legislation, not merely a county of England, and has never been formally incorporated into England via an Act of Union.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_nationalism

The Celtic League and Celtic Congress consider Cornwall to be one of six Celtic nations.
Scotland, Ireland, Isle of Man, Wales, Cornwall.
And Britanny in France!

Charlie Williams...

..."E ba gum"

BTW, I'm Minister for Defence not Chancellor :-)

Charlie Williams...

..."E ba gum"

BTW, I'm Minister for Defence not Chancellor :-)

Ah, your correct Sirius, I'm chancellor and I've managed to balance the books
again this year. Zero coming in and zero going out...perfect.

---

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

The Celtic League and Celtic Congress consider Cornwall to be one of six Celtic nations.
Scotland, Ireland, Isle of Man, Wales, Cornwall.
And Britanny in France!

Several Scotsmen who live on the Isles of Wight are known to support Celtic
football club up in Scotland. So there's every chance that the Isles of Wight
may have to be added to your Celtic list too.

---

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Well done Nick. How are we getting on with the 20 foot high wall we are building around us, on target? And Mr Defence Minister, are the catapults and stink bombs placed at strategic places to repel invaders?

The walls going up well, awarded Murphy's the contract to build because
they said that if they won this contract they were prepared to carry out a
few road repairs for us.....free of charge. I have a feeling Sirius put
words in the ears of the Murphy's bosses, down at the Leprechaun Arms
in Newport, all to good effect....have done some splendidly good tarmac work.

---

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Several Scotsmen who live on the Isles of Wight are known to support Celtic football club up in Scotland. So there's every chance that the Isles of Wight may have to be added to your Celtic list too.

And perhaps the Channel Islands:)

Celtic is the only Scottish football club I know about.
Henrik "Henke" Larsson was a very appriciated player there.

Maybe Great Britain are about to split to England and Celtland...

Yep & it proved costly :-(

20 gallons of Guinness. Can I put that on my expenses?

Yep & it proved costly :-(

20 gallons of Guinness. Can I put that on my expenses?

But of course...The cost will be offset by my budgetary plan to put a penny
tax on the hiring of deckchairs this coming summer.

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.