I still have the feeling that this is some sort of "we'll be watching what you're doing, when you're downloading movies/series/music through P2P and not paying for it, we have an easier time sending the RIAA after you".

Also, since parts of what you can shut down to protect your privacy can be turned back on by Microsoft, I am going to assume they can turn everything back on if they just so want to. Or they'll upload a cumulative update to you that resets all that to On, and do so every time they install the cumulative update.

Of course, since people are so used to these new "you don't need no privacy, really" settings due to things like Whatsapp and Facebook, they'll just excuse themselves that Microsoft is allowed to do it too.

The problem I have with it is that it isn't just a page or program you can choose to install, but a whole operating system that does it. You find it the new normal? I think you should have yourself looked at then.

But it's free. For the first month. After that I'm sure it'll become ransomware. Pay us an amount of money each month or we'll turn your computer off, permanently. It's been two weeks since the OS has been released, you've had 3 cumulative updates with neigh on no explanation on what fixes are in any of them, aside from the second one which had some security fixes.

But it's free! Yeah, right. Had it been anything else given to you for nothing, you'd have question marks up the wazoo.
If it would be your family car, the first question you'd ask is "what's wrong with it that it's free?"
If you'd be offered a free condominium, you'd eye the person suspiciously and ask him where the cameras were, or had he stolen the thing?
If you'd be asked to take an expensive camera by a guy in the street, free, you'd be calling the cops on him.
But now it's all right, it's Microsoft, they're trustworthy, what they're doing is the new normal. Get everyone you know to follow you in this, really there's nothing to worry about. It's free. It's Microsoft. But above all free.

No thanks.

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Revelation 13:16,17

16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,

17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.…



Uhhhhhh.........

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

It use to be called Hacking and years ago NO One would have accepted it, except those in certain parts of Redmond.

It has never been called hacking.

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Grant
Darwin NT

It use to be called Hacking and years ago NO One would have accepted it, except those in certain parts of Redmond.

It has never been called hacking.

Call it whatever You Wish. If someone Ever does this ...access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to protect our customers or enforce the terms governing the use of the services to My PERSONAL Computer, it will be because I was Hacked. Because I will Never give some Stranger permission to Access My Personal Files on My Personal Computer.

MS has just made All Windows NSA Edition Computers MS Computers. They are No Longer Personal Computers.
Enjoy.

It use to be called Hacking and years ago NO One would have accepted it, except those in certain parts of Redmond.

It has never been called hacking.

Call it whatever You Wish. If someone Ever does this ...access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to protect our customers or enforce the terms governing the use of the services to My PERSONAL Computer, it will be because I was Hacked. Because I will Never give some Stranger permission to Access My Personal Files on My Personal Computer.

MS has just made All Windows NSA Edition Computers MS Computers. They are No Longer Personal Computers.
Enjoy.

By accepting the EULA you would have given them permission, therefore it can't be 'hacking'

If you don't want Microsoft to be able to have this access then don't accept the EULA, simple really and a lot more effective than ranting about it on a forum

If you don't want Microsoft to be able to have this access then don't accept the EULA, simple really and a lot more effective than ranting about it on a forum

The problem with EULAs is that they are so large & verbose it is pretty much guaranteed that 99% of the people that install the software won't read it. And for those that do read it, there's a good chance they won't make it through to the end, or even recognise just what many of the terms of the EULA are actually saying.

I think it must be 20+ years since I read an EULA, and even back then it took be hours to get through it and resulted in one huge headache.

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Grant
Darwin NT

Good point, EULA's aren't aimed at normal people
But the point I was trying to make was that, we all know that the EULA says, in effect, that Microsoft can have access to your data if they have reason to believe that you are involved with criminal activities of some sort.
This has been covered multiple times by multiple people, and in varying degree's of hysteria in this thread and others spread across the web.

So whether you think Microsoft has gone a step too far or not there are simple choices you can make with regards to Windows 10
- Accept the EULA and the default settings and allow access to your data
- Accept the EULA and amend the default privacy settings and allow some access with a restriction of functionality
- Don't accept the EULA, don't use Windows 10 and sit back knowing Microsoft can't get at any of your data

Whatever choice you make however, it should be based on facts and your own opinions about how much you want the extra functionality in Windows 10 and if the trade off between this functionality and loss of privacy is worth it to you.
Not based on the mass hysteria, half truths and complete hogwash that seems to be prevalent with Windows 10 at the moment

Or you could of course lobby your governments to force companies to make EULA's understandable to normal people.....

Good point, EULA's aren't aimed at normal people
But the point I was trying to make was that, we all know that the EULA says, in effect, that Microsoft can have access to your data if they have reason to believe that you are involved with criminal activities of some sort.

In civilized countries this requires Court order.

One more reason not ever pay to M$. They so good @finding new ways to get money that they can live w/o direct payments :P

Good point, EULA's aren't aimed at normal people
But the point I was trying to make was that, we all know that the EULA says, in effect, that Microsoft can have access to your data if they have reason to believe that you are involved with criminal activities of some sort.

In civilized countries this requires Court order.

One more reason not ever pay to M$. They so good @finding new ways to get money that they can live w/o direct payments :P

Android is not much different if you dont root your smart phone.
Google is spying on you as well.

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With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

Good point, EULA's aren't aimed at normal people
But the point I was trying to make was that, we all know that the EULA says, in effect, that Microsoft can have access to your data if they have reason to believe that you are involved with criminal activities of some sort.

In civilized countries this requires Court order.

One more reason not ever pay to M$. They so good @finding new ways to get money that they can live w/o direct payments :P

Android is not much different if you dont root your smart phone.
Google is spying on you as well.

Don't need a court order if you've granted them permission

The EULA is a contract between you and the software provider, and all contracts have their own terminology which most normal people (non-lawyers) won't understand and I'd hope you wouldn't sign any other contract without understanding the implications.

Google, Apple, most software providers, most businesses are at it to varying degree's and have been for years. You think shops loyalty cards are there because the business really wants to give you money off, or because they want to track what you are buying, when you buying it where you buy it and how you pay for it?

Edit- current OSX EULA http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/OSX10103.pdf

C. Dictation. To the extent that your Apple-branded computer supports the dictation feature, you can
choose to have either your Mac or Apple’s servers perform the speech recognition for you. If you use
Enhanced Dictation, your Mac will convert the things you say into text without sending your dictated
speech to Apple. If you use server-based Dictation, the things you say will be recorded and sent to
Apple to convert what you say into text and your computer will also send Apple other information, such
as your name and nickname; and the names, nicknames, and relationship with you (e.g., “my dad”) of
your address book contacts (collectively, your “User Data”). All of this data is used to help Dictation
better recognize what you say. It is not linked to other data that Apple may have from your use of other
Apple services. By using server-based Dictation, you agree and consent to Apple’s and its
subsidiaries’ and agents’ transmission, collection, maintenance, processing, and use of this
information, including your voice input and User Data, to provide and improve Dictation and Siri
functionality in Apple products and services. You can turn off or change your preferences for Dictation
at any time by going to the Dictation & Speech pane within System Preferences.

Seems to be similar to what Microsoft are doing with Cortana to me, only difference being that Cortana can only use server based dictation

That "only server-based" is crucial distinction.
It would be more or less OK if with opt out one could lose some of abilities of OS. That is, if no sound recorded no Cortana advises.

But such EULA is quite different things. There is no way to opt out in part with EULA. You either accept in whole or refuse in whole. And this "in whole" not just some service as M$ named it now. It's OS, that is, BASIC PC software w/o which it useless.
And M$ leaved no way to use basic part of OS w/o those pushed on users services that compromise their security.

With any contracts there are some limits exist. For example, bankers can't take your life if you did not repay. Such contract will be void (again, at least in civilized countries). Even if bank wants to kill you and you somehow signed such contract it will be admitted as void by court. Similarly with other things. In short, I really think that such EULA will be questioned by governmental regulators in many countries. Not every treaty is legal one... even if signed.

EDIT: Any ability to spy is double edged sword, don't forget it.
Even if I would trust M$ itself to not use that info against me, there is technical ability to intercept data on the way to M$ by third party. And how malicious that third party could be - gods know...

That's why some abilities better not implement at all...

That "only server-based" is crucial distinction.
It would be more or less OK if with opt out one could lose some of abilities of OS. That is, if no sound recorded no Cortana advises.

But such EULA is quite different things. There is no way to opt out in part with EULA. You either accept in whole or refuse in whole. And this "in whole" not just some service as M$ named it now. It's OS, that is, BASIC PC software w/o which it useless.
And M$ leaved no way to use basic part of OS w/o those pushed on users services that compromise their security.

You do realise you can turn Cortana off so this data isn't transmitted which is the opt-out? i.e. don't use the parts of the software that you think will\could compromise your data

With any contracts there are some limits exist. For example, bankers can't take your life if you did not repay. Such contract will be void (again, at least in civilized countries). Even if bank wants to kill you and you somehow signed such contract it will be admitted as void by court. Similarly with other things. In short, I really think that such EULA will be questioned by governmental regulators in many countries. Not every treaty is legal one... even if signed.

Agreed, not all contracts are valid even if signed, but not understanding something and then not seeking help in understanding but signing a contract anyway isn't a defense.

EDIT: Any ability to spy is double edged sword, don't forget it.
Even if I would trust M$ itself to not use that info against me, there is technical ability to intercept data on the way to M$ by third party. And how malicious that third party could be - gods know...

That's why some abilities better not implement at all...

And this is different to plugging your computer into a network and accessing the web how?

In short, I really think that such EULA will be questioned by governmental regulators in many countries.

A few years ago, definitely. These days, not so likely.

Recently the Australian Government nearly had a melt down over a report by the Human Rights Commissioner. Basically, they didn't like a report they produced, so they attacked the head of the commission. One of those doing the attacking was the Attorney General- the very one that is supposed to support government funded institutions that are setup to operate without government control & to provide their work without fear or favour.
Add to that Data Retention legislation that they have brought in requiring ISPs to hold all phone & internet use records for 2 years & allow security agencies access to those records.
And what is required for them to access those records?

•Give security agencies access to the data when they can make a case that it is "reasonably necessary" to an investigation

WTF is "reasonably" necessary?
They want it? Most likely.

Unfortunately it's governments that are allowing/pushing software companies to make these types of intrusions.

I'm sure it won't be long before there are versions of Linux that have the same backdoors, and if you aren't using Windows/OS X whatever/Android/Linux that have them built in, you will be classed as a terrorist & treated accordingly.

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Grant
Darwin NT

And this is different to plugging your computer into a network and accessing the web how?

How is it different? Are you kidding? It's just like put trojan inside intentionally. In properly configured OS no one from outside can get access to my LOCAL FILE SYSTEM files. No one but OS itself... That's how it is different. And I don't care about Cortana, sending my HDD content outside - that bothers me.

And I'm not speaking about excuses. I did not upgrade or bought it and have no intentions for now. What I did is separate partition installation of IP version. But if it sniffs out that partition into storage ones... that should be prevented.

Sounds similar to the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/23/contents) in the UK and the new laws they are trying to bring in at the moment

TBH I'd rather trust my data to Microsoft than I would do any Government

TBH I'd rather trust my data to Microsoft than I would do any Government

With M$ ability to extract data from your local storage it's the same. Once leaved they are available for anyone with money or force (not that Force, just brute force covered with copyleft or anti-terrorists laws...)

This is just the Tip of the old 'berg;

Windows 10: Microsoft can disable pirated software, unauthorised hardware
By: Tech Desk | Updated: August 17, 2015 12:34 pm

Microsoft can disable any counterfeit software or hardware running Windows 10, at least this is what is being interpreted based on the updated End User License Agreement (EULA). The new terms and conditions allow Microsoft to change or update software on your computer and changes to the EULA were first spotted by PC Authority.
According to the report, section 7b or ‘Updates to the Services or Software, and Changes to These Terms’ under EULA states that Microsoft, “may automatically check your version of the software and download software update or configuration changes, including those that prevent you from accessing the Services, playing counterfeit games, or using unauthorised hardware peripheral devices....”

Ok, I can see maybe the Games (the gameboys are gonna love it), but Hardware?

They are just getting started...

And this is different to plugging your computer into a network and accessing the web how?

How is it different? Are you kidding? It's just like put trojan inside intentionally. In properly configured OS no one from outside can get access to my LOCAL FILE SYSTEM files. No one but OS itself... That's how it is different. And I don't care about Cortana, sending my HDD content outside - that bothers me.

Your point about 3rd parties intercepting your data is the same
Do you do online shopping? You're sending your bank\credit card\address details over the web
You use emails, you add attachments to the emails? You're sending those over the web

All of which could be intercepted by a third party.

By posting on this forum you have provided the external IP Address, browser and browser version to the website which could be intercepted. Which given the correct know how would allow access to your local files

Hi Grant,

It use to be called Hacking and years ago NO One would have accepted it, except those in certain parts of Redmond.

It has never been called hacking.

Nope, AFAIR it was called 'cracking':-) Hacking was more device orientated.

The good old days 'before' the mass media got to print all sorts of crud and call it news..

And someone published a book called the hackers handbook....'cos he'd managed to crack HRH Prince Phillips mbx on Prestel... ye good old '80's:-)

Regards,

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Cliff,
Been there, Done that, Still no damm T shirt!

Haha, It's direct challenge for hackers to proudly disable M$'s trojan abilities. If AV companies will not do that ;D ;D
Custom builds now must have one, even if one owns legal key. Well-well...