It was never my intention to suggest that the education system in the USA can't produce world grade scientists. Brilliant students rise to the top no matter what their environment is. It is sad though that after spending 12 years in the halls of education so many students fail to learn even the basics of science, let alone mathematics and history.

Hi Bob. Unfortuntely education systems don't seem to impart any actual joy to the learning experience for many children. They don't get sufficient opportunities to pull together different strands of what's being routinely rammed down their throats - to see a bigger picture that they may actually find has some rather interesting bits and pieces and pathway's to explore - dare I say it - by themselves if necessary!

Ideally - a teachers role should be about nurturing the adult inside each child not shoving groups of them into the same standard one box fits all. When a child doesn't understand something or is struggling - it's not their fault. A good teacher knows that. And they will change what it is that they are doing which is wrong for that particular child. The best teachers do that as naturally as breathing - the worst perhaps just need to learn how.

If we actually listen to what the students you refer to above are saying. It's things like - school is a waste of time. Imagine wasting 12 years of your childhood in room after room after room and never seeing the point or the relevance of any of it! The child's brain is an agile thing. They throw clues to us all the time about the things that make them want to know more. Good teachers find ways of weaving that into their lessons - and every child there benefits.

But once they've tuned out - you have to work really hard to get them to want to tune back in. Much better not to lose them in the first place.

Sorry - didn't mean to go on for so long. :)

I know very little about the education system in your part of the world. I know I am very fortunate not to be going through Britain's education system as it stands today. Educating all our children well is an investment in the future of the entire planet that will give returns for generations to come... NOT an expense and it should definitely NOT be money down the drain - because that compromises every single one of us - but especially our youngsters.

Oh. I also hope that once they do take over from us and I'm in my dotage - they will have sorted out that bottom looming out above the trousers thing :)

Just to make you laugh OR cry with despair, here's the results of another survey.

One in 10 Americans think HTML is a sexually-transmitted disease, study finds

Other findings include:

15% thought 'software' is comfortable clothing

18% identified 'Blu-ray' as a marine animal

23% believe an 'MP3' to be a Star Wars robot

12% thought USB is an acronym for a European country

27% imagine a 'gigabyte' to be an insect found in South America

42% identified a 'motherboard' as the 'deck of a cruise ship'

Just to make you laugh OR cry with despair, here's the results of another survey.

One in 10 Americans think HTML is a sexually-transmitted disease, study finds

Other findings include:

15% thought 'software' is comfortable clothing

18% identified 'Blu-ray' as a marine animal

23% believe an 'MP3' to be a Star Wars robot

12% thought USB is an acronym for a European country

27% imagine a 'gigabyte' to be an insect found in South America

42% identified a 'motherboard' as the 'deck of a cruise ship'

I found that study to be hilarious when I read it last week. :-)

Cheers.

Just to make you laugh OR cry with despair, here's the results of another survey.

One in 10 Americans think HTML is a sexually-transmitted disease, study finds

Other findings include:

15% thought 'software' is comfortable clothing

18% identified 'Blu-ray' as a marine animal

23% believe an 'MP3' to be a Star Wars robot

12% thought USB is an acronym for a European country

27% imagine a 'gigabyte' to be an insect found in South America

42% identified a 'motherboard' as the 'deck of a cruise ship'

And that's the 'digital' generation then?? LOL

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

It can't be all that bad as until today, the record was held by an American 14 year old.

13 year old Brit takes record

His next project is a mini hadron collider.....

Good luck to him.

There is a longer report at Schoolboy, 13, creates nuclear fusion in Penwortham

Jamie, who started work in October in an under-used school science laboratory, recreated a process known as 'inertial electrostatic confinement' which dates back to the 1960s.

under-used school science laboratory, Why? Students and teachers should be fighting, not literally, to use the labs.

under-used school science laboratory, Why? Students and teachers should be fighting, not literally, to use the labs.

There is so much wrong with modern education, and those problems are so systemic, that I believe the beast must be killed.

The teachers have no motive to fight to use that lab and every reason not-to.

The kids have every reason to suspect flight is the wisest response to being allowed to leave.

The incentives for everyone involved are incredibly perverse. Every attempt to change the incentives is fought. Eventually, teachers and students alike resign themselves to their fates.

...mindless bureaucracy in action.

I know very little about the education system in your part of the world. I know I am very fortunate not to be going through Britain's education system as it stands today.

The US of A is a big place but education is very local; the board of education is elected by municipality. Some states exercise more control than others but the federal government doesn't get involved unless there is a constitutional question. I find it interesting that 86% knew that continents move, that seems like a harder question.

Believe what you will but when it comes to getting it done there are enough of US to do the job. I call your attention to these fine Americans who will announce, on Monday, the discovery of gravity waves.



The US has produced 350 Nobel Prize winners, more than twice any other country.

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I know very little about the education system in your part of the world. I know I am very fortunate not to be going through Britain's education system as it stands today.

The US of A is a big place but education is very local; the board of education is elected by municipality. Some states exercise more control than others but the federal government doesn't get involved unless there is a constitutional question. I find it interesting that 86% knew that continents move, that seems like a harder question.

Believe what you will but when it comes to getting it done there are enough of US to do the job. I call your attention to these fine Americans who will announce, on Monday, the discovery of gravity waves.



The US has produced 350 Nobel Prize winners, more than twice any other country.

Yes! I'm looking forward to it! Best wishes and hope you're having a good weekend! :)

I know very little about the education system in your part of the world. I know I am very fortunate not to be going through Britain's education system as it stands today.

The US of A is a big place but education is very local; the board of education is elected by municipality. Some states exercise more control than others but the federal government doesn't get involved unless there is a constitutional question. I find it interesting that 86% knew that continents move, that seems like a harder question.

Believe what you will but when it comes to getting it done there are enough of US to do the job. I call your attention to these fine Americans who will announce, on Monday, the discovery of gravity waves.



The US has produced 350 Nobel Prize winners, more than twice any other country.

Well, the USA IS a big country...

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

Well, the USA IS a big country...

The two countries with WAY more people, China and India, have 4 and 7 Nobel prizes respectively. The US of A may be one messed up place yet the great unwashed turn there desperate nescient eyes to US; "sad state of science education" notwithstanding.

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Well, the USA IS a big country...

The two countries with WAY more people, China and India, have 4 and 7 Nobel prizes respectively. The US of A may be one messed up place yet the great unwashed turn there desperate nescient eyes to US; "sad state of science education" notwithstanding.

If you go by "per capita" then the US is only 15th in the world rankings.

There is mainly only one problem with US education today ( science or otherwise) and it is lack of discipline. You cannot remove a child from the classroom who is continuously disruptive nor can you discipline them in any meaningful way. You may have 30% of your class that fits this category in the "Inner City" schools. Sadly, public education is a dumping ground for students with severe physical, emotional and mental problems. Even in the wealthy suburbs a startling percentage of any classroom's students will be on medication.

A good whack with the "board of education:" might save most of these kids from Jail or being shot by age 18. Without two parents in the home many of these children know no discipline or classic aspirations and culture.

Unless there is a sea change in the culture and alteration in thinking as to what is politically correct then I can't offer any solution. The problem is not with the teachers it is with the students.

Specific to Higher Ed in the sciences: We must bring back the manufacturing, technical and advanced engineering jobs that we have lost. There is little incentive to pursue an arduous course of study if there are no appropriate jobs waiting as there were when I came up 50 years ago. Where is the NASA space program, where is Bell Laboratories.

Well, the USA IS a big country...

The two countries with WAY more people, China and India, have 4 and 7 Nobel prizes respectively. The US of A may be one messed up place yet the great unwashed turn there desperate nescient eyes to US; "sad state of science education" notwithstanding.

If you go by "per capita" then the US is only 15th in the world rankings.

China and India are also countries with way less (financial) opportunities than the US

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

China and India are also countries with way less (financial) opportunities than the US

Where is the NASA space program, where is Bell Laboratories.

I'm not at liberty to address this on this supposed forum.

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I simply note that many US Nobel prizes are foreign born who migrated to the USA in search of opportunities which were denied to them in their countries.
Tullio

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I simply note that many US Nobel prizes are foreign born who migrated to the USA in search of opportunities which were denied to them in their countries.
Tullio

Even "first nation" people are not ethnic Americans; there is no such thing.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

We also accept really smart not so "wretched refuse".

• Arieh Warshel, born in Israel, Chemistry 2013
• Michael Levitt, born in South Africa, Chemistry 2013
• Martin Karplus, born in Austria, Chemistry 2013
• Thomas C. Südhof, born in Germany, Physiology or Medicine, 2013
• Ralph M. Steinman, born in Canada, Physiology or Medicine, 2011
• Ei-ichi Negishi, born in Japan, Chemistry, 2010
• Willard S. Boyle, born in Canada, Physics, 2009
• Charles K. Kao, born in China, Physics, 2009
• Elizabeth Blackburn, born in Australia, Physiology or Medicine, 2009
• Jack W. Szostak, born in United Kingdom, Physiology or Medicine, 2009
• Osamu Shimomura, born in Japan, Chemistry, 2008
• Yoichiro Nambu, born in Japan, Physics, 2008
• Leonid Hurwicz, born in Russia, Economics, 2007
• Mario R. Capecchi, born in Italy, Physiology or Medicine, 2007
• Oliver Smithies, born in United Kingdom, Physiology or Medicine, 2007
• Robert Aumann, born in Germany, Economics, 2005
• Anthony J. Leggett, born in United Kingdom, Physics, 2003
• Alexei A. Abrikosov, born in Russia, Physics, 2003
• Daniel Kahneman, born in Israel, Economics, 2002
• Riccardo Giacconi, born in Italy, Physics, 2002
• Sydney Brenner, born in South Africa, Physiology or Medicine, 2002
• Alan MacDiarmid, born in New Zealand, Chemistry, 2000
• Eric R. Kandel, born in Austria, Physiology or Medicine, 2000
• Alan MacDiarmid, born in New Zealand, Chemistry, 2000
• Eric R. Kandel, born in Austria, Physiology or Medicine, 2000
• Ahmed H. Zewail, born in Egypt, Chemistry, 1999
• Günter Blobel, born in then Germany, now Poland, Physiology or Medicine, 1999
• Walter Kohn, born in Austria, Chemistry, 1998
• Daniel C. Tsui, born in China, Physics, 1998
• Myron Scholes, born in Canada, Economics, 1997
• William Vickrey, born in Canada, Economics, 1996
• Mario J. Molina, born in Mexico, Chemistry, 1995
• George Andrew Olah, born in Hungary, Chemistry, 1994
• John Charles Harsanyi, born in Hungary, Economics, 1994
• Rudolph A. Marcus, born in Canada, Chemistry, 1992
• Edmond H. Fischer, born in China, Physiology or Medicine, 1992
• Ronald Coase, born in the United Kingdom, Economics, 1991
• Sidney Altman, born in Canada, Chemistry, 1990
• Hans G. Dehmelt, born in Germany, Physics, 1989
• Jack Steinberger, born in Germany, Physics, 1988
• Charles J. Pedersen, born in Korea, Chemistry, 1987
• Joseph Brodsky, born in Russia, Literature, 1987
• Yuan T. Lee, born in Taiwan, Chemistry, 1986
• Elie Wiesel, born in Romania, Peace, 1986
• Rita Levi-Montalcini, born in Italy, Physiology or Medicine, 1986
• Franco Modigliani, born in Italy, Economics, 1985
• Henry Taube, born in Canada, Chemistry, 1983
• Gérard Debreu, born in France, Economics, 1983
• Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar, born in then British India, now Pakistan, Physics, 1983
• Roald Hoffmann, born in then Poland, now Ukraine, Chemistry, 1981
• Nicolaas Bloembergen, born in the Netherlands, Physics, 1981
• David H. Hubel, born in Canada, Physiology or Medicine, 1981
• Czesław Miłosz, born in then Russian Empire, now Lithuania, Literature, 1980
• Baruj Benacerraf, born in Venezuela, Physiology or Medicine, 1980
• Allan M. Cormack, born in South Africa, Physiology or Medicine, 1979
• Isaac Bashevis Singer, born in then Russian Empire, now Poland, Literature, 1978
• Arno Penzias, born in Germany, Physics, 1978
•Andrzej W. Schally, born in then Poland, now Lithuania, Physiology or Medicine, 1977
• Saul Bellow, born in Canada, Literature, 1976
• Tjalling C. Koopmans, born in the Netherlands, Economics, 1975
• Renato Dulbecco, born in Italy, Physiology or Medicine, 1975
• George E. Palade, born in Romania, Physiology or Medicine, 1974
• Wassily Leontief, born in Germany, Economics, 1973
• Henry Kissinger, born in Germany, Peace, 1973
• Ivar Giaever, born in Norway, Physics, 1973
• Simon Kuznets, born in then Russia, now Belarus, Economics, 1971
• Max Delbrück, born in Germany, Physiology or Medicine, 1969
• Salvador Luria, born in Italy, Physiology or Medicine, 1969
• Lars Onsager, born in Norway, Chemistry, 1968
• Hans Bethe, born in then Germany, now France, Physics, 1967
• Charles B. Huggins, born in Canada, Physiology or Medicine, 1966
• Konrad Bloch, born in then Germany, now Poland, Physiology or Medicine, 1964
• Maria Goeppert-Mayer, born in then Germany, now Poland, Physics, 1963
• Eugene Wigner, born in Hungary, Physics, 1963
• Georg von Békésy, born in Hungary, Physiology or Medicine, 1961
• Emilio Segrè, born in Italy, Physics, 1959
• Chen Ning Yang, born in China, Physics, 1957
• Tsung-Dao Lee, born in China, Physics, 1957
• Polykarp Kusch, born in Germany, Physics, 1955
• Fritz Lipmann, born in then Germany, now Russia, Physiology or Medicine, 1953
• Felix Bloch, born in Switzerland, Physics, 1952
• Selman A. Waksman, born in then Russian Empire, now Ukraine, Physiology or Medicine, 1952
• William Giauque, born in Canada, Chemistry, 1949
• Carl Cori, born in Austria, Physiology or Medicine, 1947
• Gerty Cori, born in Austria, Physiology or Medicine, 1947
• Isidor Isaac Rabi, born in Austria, Physics, 1944
• Otto Stern, born in then Germany, now Poland, Physics, 1943 in then Germany,now Poland, Physics, 1907
• Venkatraman Ramakrishnan*, born in India, Chemistry, 2009
• Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar*, born in India, Physics, 1983
• Har Gobind Khorana*, born in British India, now Pakistan, Physiology or Medicine, 1968

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My original post was aimed at public school education. The university system in the USA is second to none when it comes to the sciences.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

My original post was aimed at public school education. The university system in the USA is second to none when it comes to the sciences.

If your are unhappy with your public schools elect board members who will fix it. I assume you attend board meetings and express your dissatisfaction.

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I am way beyond having a direct interest ( meaning children) in the public school system and in my current physical state and age getting elected to the school board is not an option.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

I am way beyond having a direct interest ( meaning children) in the public school system and in my current physical state and age getting elected to the school board is not an option.

If one is a property owner one automatically has an interest in education, it directly affects property value. Schools are near the top of the list when one is looking to purchase a home.

One can't paint all public education with the same brush. These high schools are about 15 miles apart by distance but a universe away in education.
Malcolm X. Shabazz High School
Mountain Lakes High School
That is all I better say about that.

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