Ok suppose we are able to make and control a light photon bubble(stolen from star trek) and were able to manipulate that bubble to the speed of light. The interior of the bubble would not be affected by the mass equation in that scenario

---

In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Hi Betreger - Well I would like to see him back. He went on holiday for reasons I have no absolutely no idea about, and disappeared shortly afterwards.

@Steve - the expansion of space as we can observe it from earth, is the result of our local big bang, in our part of the one and only single universe. Probably from a supermassive black hole exploding. The rate of expansion that we can observe is increasing, but it would do. You pop a bag of flour in spsce, and what is there to stop the particles speeding away in all directions with increasing velocity? No gravity, no air friction ....

Supposing you laid on your back on the moon and fired a high powered rifle into space, how fast would that bullet finally achieve in MPH? Or would the reaction alter the moons orbit in some miniscule way?

There is one Universe, there are many big bangs happening all over it, and expanding within it, like a cauldron bubbling on a stove, we just happen to live in the aftermath of our own local one. All the matter from our big bang will be devoured by other supermassive black holes elsewhere, and it all starts again.

As good a theory as any ....

You might be right about the caldron effect. Galaxies have been moving toward a certain area. I have guessed that it might be another big bang product, being massive enough to attract millions of galaxies.

The increasing acceleration of expanding space is the mystery to me. The expanding flour from a flour bag bursting in space, would never accelerate past it's initial state. It's true that nothing would slow it down, and it might be sped up due to gravity of a local body, but if that were the case, all the particles would eventually be headed in the same direction.

As far as firing a rifle bullet, there is no source of acceleration other than the initial chemicle reaction. Once again, if fired toward a massive body, it would accelerate, but even if fired into a black hole, it would not exceed light speed. It would however be strethced into a molecule thick string and be absorbed into the pure mass of the black hole. I think of a black hole as a solid particle, containing nothing but itself. All the previous particles had collapsed into just 1 chunk of mass.

I would love for there to be some observation that would give us a clue to FTL speed, but in the familiar dimensions we all experience throughout the visible universe, there are no such observations, regardless of energy levels. As far as we can see, every single particle is bound by light speed as a limit.

I would think that since theory is lacking on a FTL mechanism, as well as observation, it limits my thinking. The expanding universe, or in particular the accelerating expanding universe does tweak my mind a bit.

Steve

---

Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

Ok suppose we are able to make and control a light photon bubble(stolen from star trek) and were able to manipulate that bubble to the speed of light. The interior of the bubble would not be affected by the mass equation in that scenario

Light photon bubble? Oooookayyyy. <backs slowly from the room>

---

Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas.

Albert Einstein

Steve, my guess is that is if we were to travel long distances in a short period of time it would involve the distortion of space. FTL travel would not be involved but the net effect would be the same.

---

Speaking of light - I happened to watch this New Year's Eve fireworks through a couple of binoculars.

Interestingly, what appeared to be the light coming from the from the exploding fireworks appeared to be flashing out at blindingly fast speed, much faster than the visible, more physical remnants which also were visible by means of their illuminating parts.

My guess is that I may not be observing something which is traveling at the speed of light, but rather it is the energy which is coming from the initial explosion of the actual detonation of the fireworks itself in the air. I do not know what speeds may be around here, but definitely this goes extremely fast.

Perhaps SciManStev is able to explain this phenomenon better than myself? Possibly this may be observed during lightning as well and may then be called "sprites".

Steve, my guess is that is if we were to travel long distances in a short period of time it would involve the distortion of space. FTL travel would not be involved but the net effect would be the same.

You could be right, but up to now, we have no evidence of that being possible or practical. I did read about the experiment someone wants to do in that arena on these forums, but I remain skeptical until something tangible is observed or shown feasible. Even with a controlled, directional distortion of space, wouldn't you have to manipulate the distortion at faster than light? Extra dimensions are a mind bender, and M-Theory requires 11 dimensions. As Tullio has indicated, there is no observational/experimental evidence for M-Theory, but it is the first theory where the math works for the very large, and the very small.

Steve

---

Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

Speaking of light - I happened to watch this New Year's Eve fireworks through a couple of binoculars.

Interestingly, what appeared to be the light coming from the from the exploding fireworks appeared to be flashing out at blindingly fast speed, much faster than the visible, more physical remnants which also were visible by means of their illuminating parts.

My guess is that I may not be observing something which is traveling at the speed of light, but rather it is the energy which is coming from the initial explosion of the actual detonation of the fireworks itself in the air. I do not know what speeds may be around here, but definitely this goes extremely fast.

Perhaps SciManStev is able to explain this phenomenon better than myself? Possibly this may be observed during lightning as well and may then be called "sprites".

There is certainly nothing in what you observed traveling faster than light, but what is added is the shock wave caused by the explosions. The shock wave is much, much slower than light. Measuring the speed of light is easily done by cause and effect over a given distance, and happens much to fast for human perception. I certainly can't react to 186,000 miles per second. If the exact time a photon is released is known, then detected after a known distance, then the speed is easy to calculate.

Steve

---

Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

Steve, after touring the LIGO observatory at Hanford I was able to get my head around the distortion of space by gravity, sort of. As I see it, it gravity from large masses may be a key to the riddle.
Of course we have not detected a gravity wave yet so this is very hypothetical. This is why I also crunch E@H.

---

I crunch Einstein also, as it's a really cool project.
I always thought of gravity as a property of mass. It is a warpage of space, which gets more intense with greater and greater masses. Although I see a black hole a single particle, I have invisioned various physical sizes of black holes. Maybe one with a mass of a million suns is only a few inches (units) less in diameter than one with the mass of a billion suns.

Anyway, I would be very interested to learn of any controlling mechanism that could "steer" gravity.

Steve

---

Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

As I understood it, space also get warped by gravity, at least that is what the LIGO observatories are trying to measure.
If true, I am certain we will not live long enough to see tangible space travel results.

---

It's certainly facinating stuff to think about. I have been thinking about this kind of stuff since I was a small boy, and I never get tired of it.

Steve

---

Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

I guess in keeping with the topic of this thread, I like to follow the evidence where ever it leads. If the existing evidence doesn't lead in a particular direction, I can't make my mind go there, but I can easily follow where it does lead. I really don't care where I end up, but that I follow the existing evidence to where it leads. I can easily reverse direction if new evidence contradicts what I learned previously, provided that it is substantiated.

Steve

---

Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

Ok suppose we are able to make and control a light photon bubble(stolen from star trek) and were able to manipulate that bubble to the speed of light. The interior of the bubble would not be affected by the mass equation in that scenario

Light photon bubble? Oooookayyyy. <backs slowly from the room>

Science gets colder than absolute zero

This unusual advance could lead to new engines that could technically be more than 100 percent efficient, and shed light on mysteries such as dark energy, the mysterious substance that is apparently pulling our universe apart.

I use photons as a plausible solution. Considering that they are moving at the speed of light, collecting them and surrounding a vehicle with a bubble of photons seems to me to be a means of avoiding the mass part of the einstein equation. I didn't say this would be easy. We are already slowing light down with gravitational fields and harnessing nuclear fusion for a few milliseconds

Now as my link shows we now have a plausible means of running engines at greater than 100% efficiency, which as I recall was a stopping point for anything with mass to approach the speed of light.

---

In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

We should not forget the important fact that everything we see and observe in the Universe is matter which is represented by its inherited mass.

Strangely enough, even a galaxy may be shown to be floating freely in space. There are no wires which are holding it up, still it does not fall down.

So the same matter can also be represented by the energy which it corresponds to.

Most people find it hard to believe that energy is the result of particles or particle creation.

Our knowledge tells us that fusion is the most effective way of transforming mass into energy. Still we are able to observe even larger objects than stars undergoing explosive phases in their life cycles.

Galaxies on their own may be active, or even explosive in nature. Some galaxies, like M77 or NGC 4151 are Seyfert galaxies. Other galaxies, like NGC 1275 in Perseus (Perseus A) appear to have almost exploded as a whole.

Why not have a closer look at the celestial wonder M101 in Ursa Major? If you happen to love the Whirlpool galaxy M51 in Canes Venatici, you may possibly have forgotten this beautiful face on galaxy.

And the story is all about planets as well. Recent studies indicate that there are countless planets among the 200 billion or so stars which are located in the Milky Way alone. It is quite a possibility that E.T. may be around not only in our own backyard, but are present in far away galaxies as well.

Now as my link shows we now have a plausible means of running engines at greater than 100% efficiency,

This would not be a closed system and hence the excess efficiency must emanate from energy applied outside of the system in question. Just as an air conditioner can easily be 300 % efficient by pumping energy into and out of the environment.

Now here's a fantastic one for ID: Quantum physics engineered for high efficiency power in solar powered bacteria?!


Bacterial quantum tricks could help solar power

Deep-sea microbe re-energises incoming light with molecular vibrations

... found a mechanism in the bacteria that captures some of the energy that might otherwise dissipate, by “reenergising it back to exciton level through molecular vibrations”. Its PPCs “ensure that every photon absorbed makes it to the structure’s reaction centre”.

The bacteria’s structure is able to preserve quantum coherence as the energy is transported, much more efficiently than happens in other systems...

... “These biological systems can direct a quantum process, in this case energy transport, in astoundingly subtle and controlled ways – showing remarkable resistance to the aggressive, random background noise of biology and extreme environments,”...


There's some phenomenal pressures with that one!


:-)

Keep searchin',
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)