That is true it does come from the south mostly. It blows the hardest from the north. All trees lean to the north east just a tad bit.


In this case you didn't think hard enough.

Yes, the tree can be calculated, but not EXACTLY. We cannot do that from the seed to it's death. That would be beyond us.

No such thing as chance. The design is clear to see.

Flip a coin three times and record the number of heads. Do this a hundred times or more and you will see the outline of the Normal curve emerge.

Chance is all around us

That is true it does come from the south mostly. It blows the hardest from the north. All trees lean to the north east just a tad bit.


In this case you didn't think hard enough.

Yes, the tree can be calculated, but not EXACTLY. We cannot do that from the seed to it's death. That would be beyond us.

It is not only true that most winds come from the south but if you had looked carefully at the link and the annual rose diagrams. http://www.isws.illinois.edu/atmos/statecli/roses/spi_rose_13.pdf You would see that winds from the south are also the strongest, by a significant margin.

Did notice you have changed the lean, this time. But even this is questionable, because light, especially when trees are young, also affects the lean.
A young tree that grows up in a mature wood, will grow towards the largest opening in the canopy.

No such thing as chance. The design is clear to see.

Flip a coin three times and record the number of heads. Do this a hundred times or more and you will see the outline of the Normal curve emerge.

Chance is all around us

That would be Design, not chance.

You don't live here. You have not looked. You look only to the net for information that you have not properly aliened. All trees lean just a tad to the south-west.

When they drop their leaves they all are subject to the wind of winter.

You don't live here. You have not looked. You look only to the net for information that you have not properly aliened. All trees lean just a tad to the south-west.

When they drop their leaves they all are subject to the wind of winter.

I think it is you that should take up knitting.

When you cannot belief the evidence published by a University in your own state then your credibility has to be question severly.

Now go away and do your knitting like a good little boy until you have gained some knowledge.

Ah, I see. I should blindly believe a University. Not what I see with my own two eyes.

Please use glasses while knitting. ;-)

That surely is a case of Personal Prejudice vs the hard facts of Science.

How many people, do you think, would believe you rather than a University report?

The one's who go into the woods a look at trees.

True that the winds most often come from the south. Also true the hardest winds come from the north that effect the tree as a whole.

The one's who go into the woods a look at trees.

True that the winds most often come from the south. Also true the hardest winds come from the north that effect the tree as a whole.

That is NOT what the diagram shows. The strongest winds and the most common winds come from the south.

That is true it does come from the south mostly. It blows the hardest from the north. All trees lean to the north east just a tad bit.


In this case you didn't think hard enough.

Yes, the tree can be calculated, but not EXACTLY. We cannot do that from the seed to it's death. That would be beyond us.

It is not only true that most winds come from the south but if you had looked carefully at the link and the annual rose diagrams. http://www.isws.illinois.edu/atmos/statecli/roses/spi_rose_13.pdf You would see that winds from the south are also the strongest, by a significant margin.

Did notice you have changed the lean, this time. But even this is questionable, because light, especially when trees are young, also affects the lean.
A young tree that grows up in a mature wood, will grow towards the largest opening in the canopy.

You should take up knitting. LOL!

ID, you show your true self.

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Not going to take the bait boys.

Your Prejudice---Trumps Hard Evidence of what I can see with my own eyes.

It's not hard at all to trip you up.

Not going to take the bait boys.

Your Prejudice---Trumps Hard Evidence of what I can see with my own eyes.

It's not hard at all to trip you up.

You have to show the proof. Without the proof your statements are empty.

I live in the center of the UK. The prevailing wind comes from the South West, but the strongest winds tend to be from the North West - so which way do our trees lean?

The answer is, most have a North Easterly lean, but there are quite a few that lean in other directions, for a variety of reasons, and some are "perverted", in that they lean one way at the base, but further up lean in a different direction.
In order to predict which way an individual tree is going to lean you need to know a vast amount of data about the both the history of that tree and its very specific environment. You can make assumptions based on those local observations that will say "That tree will PROBABLY grow to 50ft, and will PROBABLY lean to the North East". Equally there is probability that it will only grow to 30 feet and lean to the South West. You have to study a large population of trees to establish the general trends for an area, even then it is certain that there will "outliers" - trees within the population that do no follow the local trend. This is because trees are highly complex, living entities, driven by many variables and factors, not by some mechanistic design and manufacturing process such as we employ to produce cars and trucks.

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

You say the following:

"Flip a coin three times and record the numbers of heads. Do this a hundred times or more and you will see the outline of the Normal curve emerge".

If you choose to to it only one time, the result may not be predicted in advance - the chance (or probability) is 50/50 (or 50 %), but the outcome is still there for you to see.

But the question becomes then - if you flip a coin three times and record the number of heads, that is one set of experiments. If you do the same thing or set of experiments "a hundred times", you possibly may have a hundred such sets.

By doing it this way it only becomes statistics of it.

But assume that each "a hundred such sets" rather represents one set and you choose to do each such set a hundred times. Do you also then see the Normal curve emerge, or may you be able to reach some other conclusion instead?

Is it perhaps a possibility that patterns or repeating sets of numbers may emerge from what appears as randomness and coincidence and therefore leads to a probability function or pattern? If so, how many times do you need to have to flip a coin and assume such sets (or sets of sets) in order to possibly be able to see such a repeating pattern emerge?

Does it perhaps have to deal with the number of flips in each set? Why not try flip a coin five times or ten times instead of three times? Maybe the result will be something else.

Can you deduce a probability function based on limits of the number of attempted tries?

all of that is based on a coin that has not ever been made...

Can someone define what chaos, randomness and chance really is?

How many numbers or attempts of flipping a coin do you need to be able to see such a thing?

The job for the mathematicians is to try to put numbers into a context and getting a descriptive and explainable meaning out of it.

The number Pi, or 3.1415926, is such a number. Possibly you may have non-repeating numbers or patterns of numbers here, but the most important thing is that the number of desimals in the fraction is infinite and therefore never ends.

Is chaos made or created from perfect symmetry, or is it perhaps the opposite way around?

Is chaos->order->chaos (or order->chaos->order) possibly a continuous or repeating process and if so, which way does it start or go?

Why does not order always lead to the same - namely order, and chaos always lead to the same - namely chaos? Is it because you always have different factors which are trying to combine or mix these different kinds of elements?

Take prime numbers, for instance. All numbers which are not prime are composite numbers. All positive numbers which are not even numbers (meaning they are odd) are having such properties. We tend to skip the small numbers and a few exceptions among these small ones, the rest we try to find out about.

Take a number like 33183434030525011217 for example.

By just looking at it with your eyes, this number looks unbreakable or undivisible. But giving it a try, you may be able to find out that it is in fact 73*65657*6923368254097. This number is therefore composite and not having the properties of a prime number.

This is as far you get with this number.

Same goes for patterns. In some instances, patterns are made up of equal numbers or series of numbers which repeats endlessly. In other cases you may be able to discern patterns from numbers which possibly may be in series, but otherwise do not relate to each other directly otherwise. We also are able to see such patterns in nature, of course.

The pattern give us something tangible. Order.

Chaos and order do live side by side, but order always comes out on top.

Chaos and Order cannot live without each other, the yin for the yang. But, unlike yin and yang one always tops the other. The coin has not been made because the coin cannot be made, we are not the Maker, we are the made. There is no equal of one and the other. One always comes out on top. Chaos is a byproduct of Order.

We can only imitate what is in nature and we do so incompletely because we ourselves are a product of Chaos and Order. The Designer is Order without Chaos. Since we have Chaos within us we cannot make Order. The best we can do is reflect nature with it's Chaos. We can do no better then nature and nature is with Chaos. Ergo the coin cannot be made. Ergo the math is less then perfect. Ergo we are the product of Chaos with Order being on top.

An example of this taken from the Bible would be the Fallen Nature of man. We are without harmony, we are with Natural Sin.

Chaos and order.

Is an ionized hydrogen atom the most chaotic state in the universe or the most ordered state in the universe? Where does a regular hydrogen atom fall, more or less chaos? Where does a hydrogen molecule fall, more or less chaos?

Until you answer this you can't begin to understand if DNA is a more or less chaotic state.

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Chaos and Order, isn't that a book in the Gap series?

Excuse me--Original Sin. My bad. ;-)