in Reference to the Julia Sweeny monologue:

The "pain" to me would not be the realization of no god, heaven and loved ones waiting on "the other side". The pain was the realization of the organized deception, the longing, gullibility and stupidity of the masses.

Hatred against gays:

If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives. (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

I like when people are talking about hate against homosexuals, that this is the only line they can come up with. I don't believe this targets homosexuals directly, never have and never will. This is used in many organizations to justify their hate against homosexuals and yet this is the only line they can ever come up with. If out of all the thousands of pages in the Bible, these are the only few lines that some say tells homosexuals to go straight to hell, then I incredibly doubt it has anything to do with homosexuality.

95% of all those quotes can be taken out of context to mean whatever you want it to. The Bible and all its stories were written long after the birth and death of Jesus Christ. No I am not religious, but I incredibly doubt that Jesus would have condoned most of what the Church preaches against homosexuals or anyone else these days. I refuse to believe that a man and his family, who were driven out of town, on the basis of hatred, would condone such acts by the Church as we know it today. If this is the case, then nearly, if not all Christians would be sent straight to hell upon their deaths, no questions asked. Just because you believe in God or Jesus, doesn't give you anymore or less of a right to preach such hatred against anyone. It's ok for them to break their own commandments and rules but not anyone else? Give me a break. I won't even get in to the molestation of children that these preachers seem to think is ok.

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"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

The Bible and all its stories were written long after the birth and death of Jesus Christ.

Only the New Testament, not the Old Testament.

Even then, most of those were written centuries before Jesus. Old Testament - History -"The first four books of the Old Testament - Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers - were probably written in their present form after the Deuteronomistic history was completed,[citation needed] as was the book of Chronicles.[citation needed] The prophets - Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the so-called "minor prophets" - are all heavily edited works,[citation needed] some parts of them dating from as early as the 7th century, but with many later additions; the remaining books, such as the Psalms, Lamentations, and Job, are a wide variety of genres, dating from the centuries between the Exile and the last centuries before Christ."

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"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

Hatred against gays:

If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives. (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

I like when people are talking about hate against homosexuals, that this is the only line they can come up with.

This is how it was interpreted for many, many years, and why hate from the religious right has been so prevalent. If you don't like it, hate the religion, not the person pointing it out.

This isn't the only quote, I could have posted the story of Sodom and Gommorrah too.

I don't believe this targets homosexuals directly, never have and never will.

That's part of the problem, you choose to see something different when the quote directly states what it means. Just because you don't want to see hate in that line, doesn't mean it's not there.

If out of all the thousands of pages in the Bible, these are the only few lines that some say tells homosexuals to go straight to hell, then I incredibly doubt it has anything to do with homosexuality.

The Bible is supposed to the be Christian guide to all things moral, and this is supposed to be one of the few teachings against homosexuality, and what to do to get rid of the abomination against god. I.e. killing them. Again, I could post the story of Sodom and Gommorrah for further review. Even Biblical scholars have said that these interpretations are accurate and indicative of the mindset at the time of writing the Bible.

95% of all those quotes can be taken out of context to mean whatever you want it to.

Funny that most people have come to the same conclusion. Many of those quotes, it's hard to come to any other conclusion. Perhaps God should have been more clear when talking to the Disciples.

The Bible and all its stories were written long after the birth and death of Jesus Christ.

You're right, the New Testament was written nearly 800 years after his death.

No I am not religious, but I incredibly doubt that Jesus would have condoned most of what the Church preaches against homosexuals or anyone else these days.

Unless we find a way to ask him, we only have what is written.

I refuse to believe that a man and his family, who were driven out of town, on the basis of hatred, would condone such acts by the Church as we know it today. If this is the case, then nearly, if not all Christians would be sent straight to hell upon their deaths, no questions asked. Just because you believe in God or Jesus, doesn't give you anymore or less of a right to preach such hatred against anyone. It's ok for them to break their own commandments and rules but not anyone else? Give me a break. I won't even get in to the molestation of children that these preachers seem to think is ok.

I would love to come to the same conclusion you have, and I agree with many of your assessments in this paragraph. Sad to say, the facts are that what is written certainly strongly suggests hatred and murder toward many.

I haven't even posted the portions where they tell you it's ok to sell you daughter into slavery, or the many other disgraceful, inhumane things the Bible says it's OK to do.

This is how it was interpreted for many, many years, and why hate from the religious right has been so prevalent. If you don't like it, hate the religion, not the person pointing it out.

This isn't the only quote, I could have posted the story of Sodom and Gommorrah too.

You made my point for me: "interpreted." Taken out of context to induce hatred, even though Jesus preached what he did against such things.

That's part of the problem, you choose to see something different when the quote directly states what it means. Just because you don't want to see hate in that line, doesn't mean it's not there.

See above. Context. Nothing more.

The Bible is supposed to the be Christian guide to all things moral, and this is supposed to be one of the few teachings against homosexuality, and what to do to get rid of the abomination against god. I.e. killing them. Again, I could post the story of Sodom and Gommorrah for further review. Even Biblical scholars have said that these interpretations are accurate and indicative of the mindset at the time of writing the Bible.

Again...context. You can twist that story to mean what you want it to as well. And since the Greeks before the time of Christ, basically practiced some forms of homosexuality, I doubt that the entire world, at the time, even cared about it. I doubt the first thing on everyone's minds the time was to hate homosexuals.

Funny that most people have come to the same conclusion. Many of those quotes, it's hard to come to any other conclusion. Perhaps God should have been more clear when talking to the Disciples.

God probably wouldn't have picked such people to spread so much hatred, given the loving being/entity/spirit/etc that he is/was.

Unless we find a way to ask him, we only have what is written.

True...but he didn't write any of that. The Dead Sea Scrolls are probably the closest thing to what Jesus was actually thinking.

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"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

Not everything is interpretation as you suggest. I find it a pretty weak argument with no foundation considering how direct the language is.

Exodus 21 deals with slavery being OK:

"If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do." - 21:7

"If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything." - 21:2

"then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." - 21:6

"If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her." - 21:8


I suppose these quotes are misinterpreted as well.

And since the Greeks before the time of Christ, basically practiced some forms of homosexuality, I doubt that the entire world, at the time, even cared about it.

Christians say that the reason for the fall of other religions is because they weren't true. I have heard it said that because they were wrong with God, their civilization was allowed to fail.

Not everything is interpretation as you suggest. I find it a pretty weak argument with no foundation considering how direct the language is.

Exodus 21 deals with slavery being OK:

"If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do." - 21:7

"If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything." - 21:2

"then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." - 21:6

"If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her." - 21:8


I suppose these quotes are misinterpreted as well.

Slavery was ramped before, during and long after Christ...in just about every culture and civilization. Of course today we see it as wrong, but back then it was a regular thing. Just like Greeks and Egyptians and other cultures participating in homosexual acts.

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"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

Not everything is interpretation as you suggest. I find it a pretty weak argument with no foundation considering how direct the language is.

Exodus 21 deals with slavery being OK:

"If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do." - 21:7

"If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything." - 21:2

"then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." - 21:6

"If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her." - 21:8


I suppose these quotes are misinterpreted as well.

Slavery was ramped before, during and long after Christ...in just about every culture and civilization. Of course today we see it as wrong, but back then it was a regular thing. Just like Greeks and Egyptians and other cultures participating in homosexual acts.

So God was OK with it then, but he's not OK with it now. I thought the word of God was infallible. Either God takes a stance against slavery, rape, murder and incest, or He's OK with these deplorable acts and He's not much of a God.

Most of the time, when homosexual acts were accepted, it was usually after a war and subsequent conquering of a new land. The women were forced to breed with the conquering warriors so as to make sure that the children would be of strong blood (because it was assumed that the conquering nation was stronger) and the men were raped by the warriors as a form of humiliation.

Homosexuality has never been OK in any other part of history.

Honestly, I'm glad that you're trying your hardest to argue in favor of religion, because it says more about you than it does religion itself, even if your argument of "context" is weak and generally not well accepted.

Honestly, I'm glad that you're trying your hardest to argue in favor of religion, because it says more about you than it does religion itself, even if your argument of "context" is weak and generally not well accepted.

I am not in favor of any religion. And if you mean "not well accepted" as in what Christians or Muslims or whoever else believes, then yes you are correct. But you are not going to convince me that ANY religion, in current times, is in favor of such hate. Anyone who preaches that hate is a hypocrite and is a disgrace to their beliefs and the rest of humanity.

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"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

But you are not going to convince me that ANY religion, in current times, is in favor of such hate. Anyone who preaches that hate is a hypocrite and is a disgrace to their beliefs and the rest of humanity.

I'm not trying to convince you of that at all. I'm glad that most believers don't believe in the hateful teachings of the Bible in this day and age, and despite your "context" argument, the hateful teachings are still there and ignored by the believers who don't want to teach hate, much to their credit.

It's the third millennium now. Time to put away the fairy tales, folk lore, myths and voodoo.

Wouldn't you say?

you are right.

Here is a movie I saw called Letting Go of God, which follows what OzzF4|\| has been talking about. If you don't want to buy the movie, then read the description and review. It is really interesting, funny, and thought provoking.

Steve

SciManStev suggested this film.
It's a one woman on stage dialog by Julia Sweeney and it's outstanding.

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I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.