... can science can explain anything. Science changes it's mind all the time. ...

Being open to accept new information and being willing to 'change your mind' as you find more accurate ideas is far better than not changing your mind and remaining forever stubbornly wrong!

Note that in a 'make believe' world divorced from the reality, you can be forever right for any unchanging mind...


Keep searchin',
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

... can science can explain anything. Science changes it's mind all the time. ...

Being open to accept new information and being willing to 'change your mind' as you find more accurate ideas is far better than not changing your mind and remaining forever stubbornly wrong!

Note that in a 'make believe' world divorced from the reality, you can be forever right for any unchanging mind...


Keep searchin',
Martin

“Imagination is more important than knowledge.”

Well, we may be a step closer to understanding HOW our observable universe was created, we are still none the wiser as to WHY ;-)

LHC

Whatchyagonnado? Science, can't and never will solve the secrets of this universe.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

"Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better" -- Albert Einstein

... can science can explain anything. Science changes it's mind all the time. ...

Being open to accept new information and being willing to 'change your mind' as you find more accurate ideas is far better than not changing your mind and remaining forever stubbornly wrong!

Note that in a 'make believe' world divorced from the reality, you can be forever right for any unchanging mind...


Keep searchin',
Martin

“Imagination is more important than knowledge.”

Imagination might be more important than knowledge, but even Albert Einstein didn't turn away from knowledge itself.

Whatchyagonnado? Science, can't and never will solve the secrets of this universe.

That remains to be seen. Such absolutist thinking undermines the deterministic mindset of humans to find the right answers. That's what science is, after all.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

Accepting that we don't have an answer for something and acknowledging our own ignorance is the first step in finding answers.

"Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better" -- Albert Einstein

I'm pretty sure Einstein wouldn't take kindly to your perverting his statements to fit your own agenda. Einstein was at least a man of science and was very interested in finding answers.

He was also only a mathematician who's understanding of the universe was very much limited to his time.

Near death experiences have already been debunked:

http://youtu.be/YYK0p8d1Q-o
http://youtu.be/FwjwWsYKglo

I still was outside my body in the ER no matter what anyone says.....

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

Near death experiences have already been debunked:

http://youtu.be/YYK0p8d1Q-o
http://youtu.be/FwjwWsYKglo

I still was outside my body in the ER no matter what anyone says.....

And I thought I was outside my body during a traumatic experience as well. Our minds control our perceptions, and when the chemicals aren't flowing right, we think we see all sorts of interesting things.

I still was outside my body in the ER no matter what anyone says.....

As Was I...

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I Desire Peace and Justice, Jim Scott (Mod-Ret.)

I still was outside my body in the ER no matter what anyone says.....

As Was I...

I was whereabouts unknown. Two days of nothingness. The last I remember was watching a college football game at home on Monday, Jan 1, 2007. I "woke up" in ICU on Wednesday evening. Strapped to a gurney and the usual medical paraphenalia, talk about a rude awakening!

The in between time is still just a black hole in my memory. A team of doctors could not determine what had happened to me.

So, if you guys say you were 'out of body', fine by me. I can relate to it...

Martin

Hello Everyone,

I started this thread about Hawking and Heaven. I even thru in a little bit of life after death, from the Morgan Freeman, Through the Wormhole. Now, I'm sorry I did. Never, ever meant to hurt on anyone's feelings.

Sincerely,
Lynn

No worries Lynn

---

I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

Near death experiences have already been debunked:

http://youtu.be/YYK0p8d1Q-o
http://youtu.be/FwjwWsYKglo

Then read "A farewell to arms" by Ernest Hemingway, which describes his experience when hit by a grenade on the Isonzo front in World War I.
Tullio

"Hit by a grenade" says it all. If you bothered to watch the videos I linked to, it explains that the mind does funny things when traumatized, and we believe we see things similarly to others during the same events.

Besides, Ernest Hemingway is an excellent fiction writer. I wouldn't want to take his stories as accurate detailings of reality.

The videos still don't persuade me to think that there is nothing after death or the likeness of death. I stated in earlier posts that aside from being in a coma or etc, dreams may possibly play a role in what happens after death. I believe dreams are a glimpse into another universe or plane of existence that we are not yet allowed to see in its real form, hence why they often make little sense at all. I speak for myself when I say this because my dreams often DO NOT include people I know, places I have been or for that matter most of the time almost nothing in my dreams is ever familiar nor can I connect them to anything in real life. So for videos to say that the afterlife is debunked is just ridiculous. You cannot say there is no afterlife unless you are truly dead and once you are then we will never know because you won't be around to tell us about it.

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"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

Now, I'm sorry I did. Never, ever meant to hurt on anyone's feelings.

I do not think you have hurt anyones feelings at all. They would have said here if you had. I think your thoughts upon this are quite valid and worthy of discussion.

Agreed.

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"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

The videos still don't persuade me to think that there is nothing after death or the likeness of death. I stated in earlier posts that aside from being in a coma or etc, dreams may possibly play a role in what happens after death. I believe dreams are a glimpse into another universe or plane of existence that we are not yet allowed to see in its real form, hence why they often make little sense at all.

Why is it not possible that dreams are simply our minds playing out various scenarios in our subconscious while our bodies are at rest? In fact, the act of dreaming means your brain is not at rest since it is still very active, meaning that you are not really getting the rest you deserve.

I have yet to find a dream that doesn't make sense once you consider the context of the person's life and what is going on at the time. There are plenty of professionals out there that do a very scientific review of dreams (not so-called "dream interpreters") that have a sophisticated understanding of what is happening during the dream state.

I speak for myself when I say this because my dreams often DO NOT include people I know, places I have been or for that matter most of the time almost nothing in my dreams is ever familiar nor can I connect them to anything in real life. So for videos to say that the afterlife is debunked is just ridiculous. You cannot say there is no afterlife unless you are truly dead and once you are then we will never know because you won't be around to tell us about it.

Unless you search out all possible explanations from which to draw a conclusion from based upon their level of understanding of the topic, you shouldn't simply conclude that the only 'logical' explanation that you understand is simply the right one.

Those videos were never meant to disprove the non-existence of the afterlife itself. Those videos have shown proof positive that what we call "out of body experiences" are easily repeatable occurrences under controlled situations that are nothing of the sort. Welcome to real science.

Why is it not possible that dreams are simply our minds playing out various scenarios in our subconscious while our bodies are at rest?

I have postulated this very theory more than once.

For me at least, I would have to say that it's not possible. Because for me more often than not, none of the surroundings in my dreams are familiar and I don't know nor have I ever seen most of the people in my dreams. I will say however most of the times my dreams circulate around what would be the same areas, same buildings, but very different "scenarios" or actions that would ever take place in the real world.

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"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

For me at least, I would have to say that it's not possible. Because for me more often than not, none of the surroundings in my dreams are familiar and I don't know nor have I ever seen most of the people in my dreams. I will say however most of the times my dreams circulate around what would be the same areas, same buildings, but very different "scenarios" or actions that would ever take place in the real world.

I've had similar dreams to what you describe, but I certainly wouldn't call them a gateway into another plane of existence or a glimpse into the afterlife.

Why is it not possible that dreams are simply our minds playing out various scenarios in our subconscious while our bodies are at rest? In fact, the act of dreaming means your brain is not at rest since it is still very active, meaning that you are not really getting the rest you deserve.

Not true at all. Dreams can only happen when a person is at REM sleep. REM sleep is the point where the rest you need is achieved. I dream 6 out of 7 days of the week if not all 7 days. I can say for myself that I am well rested 95% of the time. I am quite disappointed when I don't dream as those are the days where I feel like "sleep" was not achieved.

Unless you search out all possible explanations from which to draw a conclusion from based upon their level of understanding of the topic, you shouldn't simply conclude that the only 'logical' explanation that you understand is simply the right one.

I never said mine was the right explanation nor did I ever suggest it. I did state this was applying to me. I have been trying to understand dreams for years, and based on my dreams I can safely say that I cannot find any correlation of them to my 'in real life' experiences.

Those videos were never meant to disprove the non-existence of the afterlife itself. Those videos have shown proof positive that what we call "out of body experiences" are easily repeatable occurrences under controlled situations that are nothing of the sort. Welcome to real science.

I have had out of body experiences before. And i can say that they were truly pout of body. I would literally be looking at myself watching the situation play out. Whether it was because I passed out during a blood test, or because of drugs or whatever else, all mine have been the same. Another "me" standing no more than a few feet from my physical self watching my own actions and the situation around me. The first one I had I discussed with nurses around me, who confirmed my story, in terms of the actions taking place. I don't think dreams or out of body experience nor near death experiences are the same for everyone everywhere. In order to really get into the nitty gritty of it, you would need to document nearly everyone's experiences on the entire planet, since no 2 are usually alike.

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"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

Why is it not possible that dreams are simply our minds playing out various scenarios in our subconscious while our bodies are at rest? In fact, the act of dreaming means your brain is not at rest since it is still very active, meaning that you are not really getting the rest you deserve.

Not true at all. Dreams can only happen when a person is at REM sleep. REM sleep is the point where the rest you need is achieved. I dream 6 out of 7 days of the week if not all 7 days. I can say for myself that I am well rested 95% of the time. I am quite disappointed when I don't dream as those are the days where I feel like "sleep" was not achieved.

REM sleep is required, but REM state doesn't imply dreaming. You can be in the REM state but have a very active brain which isn't resting.

Unless you search out all possible explanations from which to draw a conclusion from based upon their level of understanding of the topic, you shouldn't simply conclude that the only 'logical' explanation that you understand is simply the right one.

I never said mine was the right explanation nor did I ever suggest it. I did state this was applying to me. I have been trying to understand dreams for years, and based on my dreams I can safely say that I cannot find any correlation of them to my 'in real life' experiences.

Then you're not searching hard enough for real explanations. You've simply come to conclusions which you're happy with.

Those videos were never meant to disprove the non-existence of the afterlife itself. Those videos have shown proof positive that what we call "out of body experiences" are easily repeatable occurrences under controlled situations that are nothing of the sort. Welcome to real science.

I have had out of body experiences before. And i can say that they were truly pout of body. I would literally be looking at myself watching the situation play out. Whether it was because I passed out during a blood test, or because of drugs or whatever else, all mine have been the same. Another "me" standing no more than a few feet from my physical self watching my own actions and the situation around me. The first one I had I discussed with nurses around me, who confirmed my story, in terms of the actions taking place. I don't think dreams or out of body experience nor near death experiences are the same for everyone everywhere. In order to really get into the nitty gritty of it, you would need to document nearly everyone's experiences on the entire planet, since no 2 are usually alike.

When you think you're having an out of body experience, it is nothing more than your brain's estimation of what is going on around you while you're unconscious. In other words, it's your brain's attempt to remain active and alive during a very traumatic situation, be it in the ER from an accident of some sort, or too many chemicals affecting the brain from drug use. That's dealt with very clearly in the videos.

No, dreams, near death experiences, and out of body experiences are all described differently, but every one of them have the same thematic undertone that allows us to find similarities and research why those similarities exist.

If dreams are a glimpse into other levels of existence, than there's plenty of crazy monkey sex going on in those other universes... if I'm to interpret my dreams as visions of those other dimensions.

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I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

If dreams are a glimpse into other levels of existence, than there's plenty of crazy monkey sex going on in those other universes... if I'm to interpret my dreams as visions of those other dimensions.

We are not meant to see what is really happening, where we are and etc, so our brain tries to make as much sense of it as possible. And monkey's do have sex by the way :P

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"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3