I think Hawking is just plain afraid to die, but rather than admit that fear, he goes off on those who have faith in God and that they will be in Heaven when they pass on.

Yes, that was a harsh statement made by me. I apologize. I'm just angry how he changes his mind.

Here are a few quotes by Hawking.

http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/scientist/stephen_hawking_god_religion.html
What does Professor Stephen Hawking believe in?
Some quotes on God and Religion / Religious beliefs

Stephen Hawking is famously quoted as saying "When I hear about Schroedinger's cat, I reach for my gun."

If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason — for then we would know the mind of God.


That would be like saying that you would disappear if I closed my eyes. ... Interview with Diane Sawyer, as quoted in "Stephen Hawking on Religion: 'Science Will Win'" on ABC World News (07 June 2010) ... If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason — for then we would know the mind of God.

I can't prove it of course, but on good grounds I'd stake my life on it, that beyond death will be another great adventure; but first I have to get finish this one.

Sounds like you will get to find out tomorrow...I keep hearing the "Rapture" will happen tomorrow. I know I won't be going.

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

Lynn said:

I can't prove it of course, but on good grounds I'd stake my life on it, that beyond death will be another great adventure; but first I have to get finish this one.

Lynn,
I agree with you. I'm pretty sure there will be something that will come after you die. A kind of second life.

Robert Waite said:

Hawking is one of the greatest intellects produced in human history.

I disagree with you Robert. I think Stephen Hawking is about as clever as you or me or anyone else Robert. Just because Hawking gets TV appearances and because Cambridge university gave him some high status academic Honor, this does not mean he is any cleverer than you! It just means he thinks about different things than you do. And because of his disability, its looks good for the media to put him on TV. He is just an ordinary falible man who makes mistakes and tells lies just like you do.

John.

And I think you need another beer or 3.

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

SNIP
Second Heaven. I believe that the human body is simply a vessel. The individual identity of a person, what some call a soul, is a form of energy. And heaven is not so much a planet, but a plane of existence. Having studied most of humanity's religions and taken part in rituals, meditations, retreats and other practices, I believe that I have glimpsed that plane. Yes there are beings who dwell there and yes they instilled life to various planets. We call them gods, angels, divas, seraphim, etc. And guess what..... We are them. Heaven is all around us. We only need to let go to see it. Isn't that a line from Jonathan Livingston Seagull?

Well I need to get back to work. But this is fun guys. Beats just posting pictures with numbers.

Having been dead 3 times once for more than 5 minutes...this is the best explanation I have ever seen. I believe your search was well worth it!

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

SNIP
Carlos said,
[quote] JG, I like your interpretation about heaven. It's very plausible. Only problem is the DNA extraction. I really have a hard time believing that any scientific advancement would allow DNA extraction from the ashes of a cremated body. I might be wrong, after all the story of the phoenix has some historical foundation.

Carlos,
Thank you Carlos, i'm glad someone liked my interpretation. I took me a while to type it out.
Yes, i believe you are correct. If the dead person's body has been cremated, they won't be coming back. Not unless a sample of the persons DNA can be extracted from part of the body that was not burned. Maybe some skin cells from a bed sheet or some of their hair from a bed pillow. But as you know from crime programs on TV, people leave DNA all over the place during normal every day life. A recent news story said that scientists in japan are looking into bringing back the Woolly Mammoth from remains found in northern Siberia. Anything is possible. Those Pharaohs in Egypt where not mummifying their bodies for nothing. They did it because they knew they were coming back when science catches up!! How many Egyptians do you think would just love to clone a copy of King Tutankhamun and bring him back to life from a DNA sample if they thought it was possible?

I am not a physicist so I could not keep up with him in that area, but I am sure that I could run rings around him on legal issues.

Carlos i bet you would kick Hawking's ass in any law suit :) And in many other normal intellectual debates.

John.

I believe what Carlos was getting at is that you will NOT need your body ever again...

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

This is an article that fits the topic of this thread. I am not commenting on the article, just presenting it for thought.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/19/my-take-doomsdayers-show-what%e2%80%99s-wrong-with-all-religion/?hpt=C2

Steve

Steve,
Interesting article!

Of coarse tomorrow, May 21 2011 is also hotly tipped to be the start of end times. .....LOL
Then if it does not happen tomorrow, we can always hold out hope for December 21 2012. Its always good to have a back-up date to fall back on.

John.

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With reference to the title of this thread, many Americans, and other people, believe some pretty strange things. One study reported that 60 percent of Americans believe in Creationism. Is this myth any less absurd for that? Do we get to vote on what's real and what isn't?

Hawking knows nothing about heaven one way or the other, and neither does anyone else. There's no data to support or refute the notion. I was dead for a long long time, and I'll be dead again. I don't need fairy tales or red herrings to help me deal with that simple truth.

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2017 called, but I couldn't understand what they were saying because of all the screaming. (xkcd.com)

I was dead for a long long time, and I'll be dead again

So, you believe in reincarnation then?

To an extent I would have to say I believe in it, though not in a physical sense. I think there is something after we "die." An afterlife, or perhaps a gateway into another universe. The only way to really see it is to die. The closest one comes to actually dying, without having a near death experience is to dream. I dream almost 5-6 days out of a week if not more. They are vivid and realistic. Most of the time I don't know, nor have I ever seen any of the people that appear in my dreams. Deep REM sleep is probably the closest we get to dying and our dreams are trying to make sense of another world, to which we are not meant to see...yet, or maybe not at all. So are we "reincarnated?" I say yes, though not in our world.

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"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

So, you believe in reincarnation then?

To an extent I would have to say I believe in it, though not in a physical sense. I think there is something after we "die." ...

Hopefully, there will be others' memory of you. Perhaps some of your ideas may live on in others and in your surviving works.

Physically, all your atoms will be recycled in various ways spanning time and space!


Keep searchin',
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Deep REM sleep is probably the closest we get to dying and our dreams are trying to make sense of another world, to which we are not meant to see...yet, or maybe not at all.

That's an interesting viewpoint. Nobody has really interpreted what dreams actually are, Some think it's your self-conscious playing out scenarios in the safety of your sub-conscious, away from real life, where they can't do any harm.

Others think that you receive so much sub-conscious sensory stimulous during a day, that our brains can only digest and fully consider it when the body is at rest during sleep.

So are we "reincarnated?" I say yes, though not in our world.

Would that be another world on the same planet, or another place in the universe?

Good question. I guess depending on your viewpoint of multiple universes, technically any of those would be possible. My dreams tend to take place on Earth, or a planet like it. Usually I don't recognize places or the buildings either.

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"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

Here is my take on it, which as always is not an attack on anyone who sees things differently than I do. It is just an explanation of my point of view.

When a person is going through daily life, their mood changes depending on hormones, food intake, stress levels, genetics, and any injury. Those are real changes in reaction to physical effects. If a person consumes alcohol, the person is changed. Once again a physical change. This is said for any mind altering drug. LSD is an example of a complete change in personality can occur due to a few molecules in the brain.

If someone has a stroke, the damaged portion of the brain no longer works. Once again, physical. If a person has a lobotomy, they are forever changed. Physical. If a part of a brain is removed, then those thought processes can no longer work. Physical. If two parts of a brain are removed, then more things don't work. Physical.

Then you find people with multiple personalities, or Down Syndrome which is caused by an extra chromosome. Physical. There are many other conditions that change the shape of a personality completely, such as Alzheimer's. Physical.

What I find hard to accept is that with all of these clearly physical changes to the inner self, how upon the death of a person would the whole inner self go to a place, which is hotter than hell, and be fully intact as if nothing had ever happened with no physical support. Which of the multiple personalities is more valid than the others.

What is death? To me it is exactly what it was to me before I was born. I really don't have a lot of memory of the 13.7 billion years of the universe's existence before I became self aware. My physical brain is completely dead, and any energy can be classified as heat, which starts to cool (be transferred to the surrounding area) as soon as I die.

I love being alive, and I really appreciate this wonderful planet we live on, and the people I am lucky enough to know. If I were to die, then a few people would miss me, and the rest would be unaffected. If the entire earth were to be consumed by the sun, the effect on the rest of the universe would be negligible. The rest of the universe doesn't care one way or the other whether the earth, sun, or even galaxy is here, let alone any individual.

What also is a bit hard to understand is the different definitions of what happens to a person after death, depending on religion, nationality, or even local beliefs. They vary widely from Scientology, to Pearly Gates, to 72 virgins, to countless other beliefs. With no belief in a here after, I think that I am here, and will be gone at some point. It's easy, and makes perfect sense to me.

When you add all the cruelty in the world, with babies getting their heads smashed in, robberies, murders on huge scales, natural disasters killing thousands of innocent people, plagues, and just human interactions, none of that makes any sense if a loving deity is brought into it. Remove the deity and the whole universe becomes understandable, and even makes sense. It is what it is due to the right conditions being present.


Sorry for the long post, as it is difficult to describe my thoughts in just a few sentences. This has strictly been my take on this, and I really mean no disrespect to anyone. We are all different, and I applaud that.

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

Good point. But you must believe in some form or another that there is something else somewhere that does care about us and our planet. If none of us even believed for a second that life exists in ways we cannot imagine, on or around other planets, I don't think we would devote our time and efforts to search for those beings. So yet we are all born, and all die, that doesn't stop us from discovering where we come from, and if others like us exist somewhere else. If we didn't think there was more to it than just 'this' would we bother here?

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"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

Actually, I don't believe in anything that would care about our planet, except for the possibility of little green men searching for us as we search for them. The number of stars, and most likely planets just in our galaxy is enormous. If the correct conditions exist, then life would be a repercussion regardless of where it is. That the earth would be the only planet with life on it given the huge number of planets doesn't make sense to me. I am glad we are here searching for signs of life outside our planet. I am glad we are striving to advance science in any number of fields, as new knowledge is a real human achievement that those who come after us will benefit from.

To me, the idea that a conscious being would have created the universe and everything in it seems implausible. As our knowledge increases, our unknowns decrease. As long as we continue to self correct, we will find the answers. I, myself will always self correct when shown I was wrong. I have no problem with being wrong. It is just an opportunity to learn, and get it right the next time.

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

As our knowledge increases, our unknowns decrease. As long as we continue to self correct, we will find the answers. I, myself will always self correct when shown I was wrong. I have no problem with being wrong. It is just an opportunity to learn, and get it right the next time.

Steve

Steve,
Spoken like a true scientist! And that's the way science works, and should always work.

Steve is funny just how many people claim to think in a rational scientific manner, but at the end of the day, they find it very difficult to accept that today's science can, and does change. It takes a very rare individual to understand that the science you read in books today could well be wrong. Its just our current best interpretation of how things work.

You would be surprised just how many scientists today do not understand that concept.

John.

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You would be surprised just how many scientists today do not understand that concept.

Amazing number of people think they are scientists. Stare decisis is for lawyers.

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Morgan Freeman the possibilities of life after death in the season 2 premiere of Through the Wormhole. What do life and death actually mean?


Science or Discovery - I think this episode airs June 8, 2011

The Science Channel Videos:


http://science.discovery.com/videos/through-the-wormhole-2-is-death-the-end.html
Through the Wormhole 2: Is Death the End

http://science.discovery.com/videos/through-the-wormhole-2-near-death-experience.html

Near death experiences have already been debunked:

http://youtu.be/YYK0p8d1Q-o
http://youtu.be/FwjwWsYKglo

Near death experiences have already been debunked:

http://youtu.be/YYK0p8d1Q-o
http://youtu.be/FwjwWsYKglo

Then read "A farewell to arms" by Ernest Hemingway, which describes his experience when hit by a grenade on the Isonzo front in World War I.
Tullio

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Near death experiences have already been debunked:

http://youtu.be/YYK0p8d1Q-o
http://youtu.be/FwjwWsYKglo

Then read "A farewell to arms" by Ernest Hemingway, which describes his experience when hit by a grenade on the Isonzo front in World War I.
Tullio

"Hit by a grenade" says it all. If you bothered to watch the videos I linked to, it explains that the mind does funny things when traumatized, and we believe we see things similarly to others during the same events.

Besides, Ernest Hemingway is an excellent fiction writer. I wouldn't want to take his stories as accurate detailings of reality.

Video included with this link.

British physicist http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/stephen-hawking-tackles-universal-questions-11575521Stephen Hawking may believe that heaven is a mere "fairy story," but he's hard-pressed to find those who share his perspective on this side of the pond.

This weekend, the U.K.'s Guardian newspaper published an http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/may/15/stephen-hawking-interview-there-is-no-heaven with Hawking in which the celebrated scientist said, "There is no heaven. ... That is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark."

~more~

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/stephen-hawking-calls-heaven-fairy-story-majority-americans/story?id=13611922

He talks aliens too. I hope both links work.

Amusing that people who take an interest in things like this do not usually report the opinions of theologians on Black Holes.

If in fact his the substance of what he said he is not speaking as a scientist. The proper statement is, there is no physical evidence for heaven. Near death experience reports are of something are highly selective and in any Christian case is supposed to be arriving for judgement before the good things start. It is not a christian heaven. It is closest to ancestor worship religions although Hindus might be able to claim it.

In any event testimony is not physical evidence and it is selective but a statement as attributed to him here is very unscientific.

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Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

Matt, all your links came through for me. Thanks! This quote was under an ABC link.

The scientist asserts "the laws of physics can explain the universe."

I wonder in what lifetime can science can explain anything. Science changes it's mind all the time. Life after death will remain a mystery.

There was a show on the other night. Multiple universes they say exist. We live in one bubble of a universe. Lawrence Maxwell Krauss (born May 27, 1954) is an American theoretical physicist who is professor of physics. He was on the show. Shocked when he talked about the subject matter.