Video included with this link.

British physicist http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/stephen-hawking-tackles-universal-questions-11575521Stephen Hawking may believe that heaven is a mere "fairy story," but he's hard-pressed to find those who share his perspective on this side of the pond.

This weekend, the U.K.'s Guardian newspaper published an http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/may/15/stephen-hawking-interview-there-is-no-heaven with Hawking in which the celebrated scientist said, "There is no heaven. ... That is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark."

~more~

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/stephen-hawking-calls-heaven-fairy-story-majority-americans/story?id=13611922


He talks aliens too. I hope both links work.

I think Hawking is just plain afraid to die, but rather than admit that fear, he goes off on those who have faith in God and that they will be in Heaven when they pass on.


Heaven a fairy tale, says physicist Hawking

LONDON - Heaven is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark, the eminent British theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking said in an interview published on Monday.

Hawking, 69, was expected to die within a few years of being diagnosed with degenerative motor neurone disease at the age of 21, but became one of the world’s most famous scientists with the publication of his 1988 book “A Brief History of Time.”

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Science/2011/05/16/18153106.html

Lynn,
What do you think? Do you believe in some kind of Heaven or some kind of God, whatever that God might be? Or where-ever that Heaven might be?

Could we ourselves create Heaven right here on Earth? Is that possible? (Quote; Let it be done on Earth as it is in Heaven --Jesus)

John.

---

I think Hawking is just plain afraid to die, but rather than admit that fear, he goes off on those who have faith in God and that they will be in Heaven when they pass on.

Well that's an ironic viewpoint. Usually, when someone is afraid of something, they make it sound like flowers and rainbows to make it less scary. Sort of like what religious people do with believing in God and/or Heaven.

I'd say it takes a lot of balls to admit that once you die, that's it.

Why is his viewpoint taken as "going off on those who have faith"? Why is it that anyone who has a contrary view to what religion teaches, and actually speaks their views, they are "going off" or "attacking" religion?

I was accused of religious bigotry by C Olival for doing the same thing. Are contrary views really that threatening that they must be viewed as attacks?

For the believers in God (or god(s))...

Who or what does your god have to look up to? Who or what is a god for your god? (Or to mis-pun turtles: Or is it gods all the way up?)


Or is it all just a state of (abstract) mind?

Keep searchin'

;-)
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

If one aplies physics to the description of Heaven and Hell,you get a strange result. This is a small excerpt from the Mathmatical Magpie by Clifton Fadiman.

Hot as Hell
H. Allen Smith, "The Achievement of H.T. Wensel," in Clifton Fadiman, ed., The Mathematical Magpie (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1962), pp. 141-142 (at 142):

The exact temperature of hell cannot be computed, but it must be less than 444.6° C., the temperature at which brimstone or sulphur changes from a liquid to a gas. Revelations [sic] 21:8: "But the fearful, and unbelieving ... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." A lake of molten brimstone means that its temperature must be below the boiling point, which is 444.6° C. If it were above this point it would be a vapor and not a lake.

As the article points out, hell (below 445° C. = 833° F.) is actually cooler than heaven (525° C. = 977° F., computed from Isaiah 30:26).

The temperature of Heaven was computed by it's description.

Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days.

Thus heaven receives from the moon as much radiation ase do from the sun and in addition seven times seven times as much as we receive from the sun.
Now the light we receive from the moon is a ten-thousandth of the light we receive from the sun, so we can ignore what we rteceive from the moon.

Thr radiation falling on heaven will heat it to the point where the heat lost by radiation is just equal to the heat received by radiation. In other words, heaven loses fifty times as much heat as the earth by radiation. Using the well-known Stefan-Boltzmann fourth-power law for radiation, (H/E)^4 = 50 where H is the absolute temperature of heaven and E is the absolute temperature of earth - 300°C. (273 plus 27). This gives H as 798° absolute or 525°C.

I read this many years ago, and thought it was interesting to apply physics to biblical descriptions. The Mathematical Magpie is an interesting book, and I recommend reading it for enjoyment. I think Stephen Hawking would enjoy this.

Steve

---

Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

Lynn,
What do you think? Do you believe in some kind of Heaven or some kind of God, whatever that God might be? Or where-ever that Heaven might be?

Could we ourselves create Heaven right here on Earth? Is that possible? (Quote; Let it be done on Earth as it is in Heaven --Jesus)

John.

Just because you can't see or detect something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
What we see of the universe is just what is observable. There are with 100% certainty things that exist in the universe that we for now, can't possibly imagine.
Science doesn't know what's truly out there, and neither do I. One must use your imagination.

Just because you can't see or detect something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Just try asking Schroedinger's cat!

... One must use your imagination.

And then anything can be possible...


Keep searchin',

;-)
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Just because you can't see or detect something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
What we see of the universe is just what is observable. There are with 100% certainty things that exist in the universe that we for now, can't possibly imagine.

Agreed. There are things that exist in the universe that we don't know or can't possibly imagine. Who's taking greater steps to make the discoveries: science or religion?

Science doesn't know what's truly out there, and neither do I. One must use your imagination.

Interesting that everyone always involves "science" and states that science doesn't know. The difference is, with our advancements, one day science will know. The gray areas of science won't always be gray. What advancements has religion been making, other than riding the coattails of science and modifying their stories to fit into science theory?

The topic posted by Lynn is Heaven, and the question; Is Heaven just a fairy story like Hawking suggests? These are my thoughts on Heaven.

I believe there is a place called Heaven. I believe it physically exists. I believe its an exoplanet that orbits a nearby star. I would guess that star might be within 50 to 100 light years of our star the Sun, possibly closer!!!

On the exoplanet called Heaven, people that look very similar to us live there. I believe the people living on the exoplanet called Heaven are very scientifically advanced people. They have already gone through the age of scientific discovery and have conquered the vast majority, if not all that is to be understood in science.

Because the people who live on the exoplanet called Heaven have already passed through the age of scientific discovery, they have learnt to live in peace with each other. Because they have conquered science, they have also conquered war and they no longer fight with each other. So they just live in peace and harmony with each other, and in harmony with the environment of the exoplanet they live on.

Because the people who live on the exoplanet called Heaven have already conquered science, they have also mastered the science of cloning, genetic modification, genetic manipulation, and the creation of living things. This gives them the scientific ability to create every type of life from the simplest organisms right the whole way up to creating any type of intelligent thinking beings.

I also believe they have conquered the physics of space travel between stars. This would allow them to travel to other nearby stars that have habitable planets, like our Earth.

I believe this is what happened here on Earth. The scientifically advanced people that live on the exoplanet called Heaven came here to Earth and started creating every type of life. Eventually they got to the top of the chain of life and they created us, human beings, in their own image and likeness. In other words, we look just like them.

I believe they knew full well there would be problems with mankind if we started learning science and discovered the destructive power of the atom. So to prevent mankind from destroying itself through its own scientific discoveries, instead they chose to shorten the human lifespan to less than 100 years to slow our ability to accumulate scientific knowledge. This way humanity would last longer and learn for ourselves through trial and error the destruction war can bring. So they chose not to give us any scientific information for our own good.

This is my personal scientific interpretation of what is described in the Bible. I believe in the bible and i believe the scientists who came here to Earth originally will come back when the time is right. The last book of the bible is called the "book of Revelation". It says they will come back to "reveal" something to us. I think they will come back to reveal the full book of science, and the full book of human history, with everybody's lives in the book, and the full detail of everything everyone done during their lives.

I believe they will resurrect people from the dead using DNA taken from their bones in the ground. Everyone will be able to publicly see what happened during everyone else's life by reading the book on that persons life. The good things and the bad things, it will all be publicly available for everyone to look at. It will be like the recent controversial wikileaks thing, but bigger, everybody who ever lived will be in it, and all the things you said and done. All the information will be available in a format similar to the internet. I think most of the other stories in the bible are scientific analogies to kind of "scare us" in the mean time and keep us from destroying ourselves.

I also believe we are very very close to the time when these people who created us will return. And for some strange reason, because of the colossal amount of scientific information i seem to have acquired in the last 5 months, i think its possible i'm personally part of this thing in some way. I'm just not sure how or why its me, or what part i'm supposed to play. I'm not a prophet, i'm just a scientist.

John.

---

I think Hawking is just plain afraid to die, but rather than admit that fear, he goes off on those who have faith in God and that they will be in Heaven when they pass on.

Yes, that was a harsh statement made by me. I apologize. I'm just angry how he changes his mind.

Here are a few quotes by Hawking.

http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/scientist/stephen_hawking_god_religion.html
What does Professor Stephen Hawking believe in?
Some quotes on God and Religion / Religious beliefs

Stephen Hawking is famously quoted as saying "When I hear about Schroedinger's cat, I reach for my gun."

If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason — for then we would know the mind of God.


That would be like saying that you would disappear if I closed my eyes. ... Interview with Diane Sawyer, as quoted in "Stephen Hawking on Religion: 'Science Will Win'" on ABC World News (07 June 2010) ... If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason — for then we would know the mind of God.

I can't prove it of course, but on good grounds I'd stake my life on it, that beyond death will be another great adventure; but first I have to get finish this one.

I think Hawking is just plain afraid to die, but rather than admit that fear, he goes off on those who have faith in God and that they will be in Heaven when they pass on.

Hawking is one of the greatest intellects produced in human history.
I believe he has spent some time pondering the god issue and reached his logical conclusion.

The number of gods created by fearfull humans over the course of our existence could fill Arrowhead Stadium. What is it that drives some to seek solice through the belief in some higher form?
Is it the need for a strong father figure to watch over his frightened children?

I don't think that it's Hawking who's so afraid to die.
I know I don't fear being dead. Do you remember the way you felt 10 years before you were born?
That's what it's like after you die.

---

I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

Lynn said:

I can't prove it of course, but on good grounds I'd stake my life on it, that beyond death will be another great adventure; but first I have to get finish this one.

Lynn,
I agree with you. I'm pretty sure there will be something that will come after you die. A kind of second life.

Robert Waite said:

Hawking is one of the greatest intellects produced in human history.

I disagree with you Robert. I think Stephen Hawking is about as clever as you or me or anyone else Robert. Just because Hawking gets TV appearances and because Cambridge university gave him some high status academic Honor, this does not mean he is any cleverer than you! It just means he thinks about different things than you do. And because of his disability, its looks good for the media to put him on TV. He is just an ordinary falible man who makes mistakes and tells lies just like you do.

John.

---

Well JG, if you believe I tell lies, just don't read what I post.
Speaking for myself, I have never posted a lie. If I can't present my opinion without lying, then my opinion would be without foundation.

I'm just a little offended by your closing statement.
You may disagree with me over something, but it doesn't mean I have lied.

---

I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

Robert Waite said:

Hawking is one of the greatest intellects produced in human history.

I disagree with you Robert. I think Stephen Hawking is about as clever as you or me or anyone else Robert. Just because Hawking gets TV appearances and because Cambridge university gave him some high status academic Honor, this does not mean he is any cleverer than you! It just means he thinks about different things than you do. And because of his disability, its looks good for the media to put him on TV. He is just an ordinary falible man who makes mistakes and tells lies just like you do.

John.

I found this. I would not classify this as an ordinary man by any stretch.

---a possibly dramatized anecdote from Introducing Stephen Hawking (2006)---

Near the end of his term at Oxford and no doubt beginning to feel the effects of ALS, Hawking took a terrible fall down a staircase in the university hall. As a result, he temporarily lost his memory. He could not even remember his name. After several hours of interrogation by his friends, he finally returned to normal but was worried about possible permanent brain damage. To be sure, he decided to take the Mensa test for individuals with superior intelligence. He was delighted to find that he passed with flying colours, scoring between 200 and 250!

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_Stephen_Hawking's_IQ#ixzz1MjjVVfKr

Steve

---

Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

I need to come over to this are of the boards more often. Is Hawking an ordinary guy? Is heaven a fairy story? Does Robert Waite lie? There's some pretty heavy stuff here. Well maybe the part about lies isn't but the other stuff in this tread is intriguing. JG, I like your interpretation about heaven. It's very plausible. Only problem is the DNA extraction. I really have a hard time believing that any scientific advancement would allow DNA extraction from the ashes of a cremated body. I might be wrong, after all the story of the phoenix has some historical foundation.

First as to Hawking being an ordinary guy, he is not. But is he unique? no. I was once a member of Mensa and have dated a number of ladies who were also members. He is in the top 1% sure, but with 6 billon people on the planet that gives him some 60 million companions. Even if he is in the top 1/10 of a percent, that still leaves some 6 million people available for discourse. I am not a physicist so I could not keep up with him in that area, but I am sure that I could run rings around him on legal issues.

Second Heaven. I believe that the human body is simply a vessel. The individual identity of a person, what some call a soul, is a form of energy. And heaven is not so much a planet, but a plane of existence. Having studied most of humanity's religions and taken part in rituals, meditations, retreats and other practices, I believe that I have glimpsed that plane. Yes there are beings who dwell there and yes they instilled life to various planets. We call them gods, angels, divas, seraphim, etc. And guess what..... We are them. Heaven is all around us. We only need to let go to see it. Isn't that a line from Jonathan Livingston Seagull?

Well I need to get back to work. But this is fun guys. Beats just posting pictures with numbers.

Well JG, if you believe I tell lies, just don't read what I post.
Speaking for myself, I have never posted a lie. If I can't present my opinion without lying, then my opinion would be without foundation.

I'm just a little offended by your closing statement.
You may disagree with me over something, but it doesn't mean I have lied.

Robert,
Please accept my apology, i did not mean to offend you. I was making the point that Hawking is a falible man because he is human just like all of us. To be human means we all make mistakes. So i'm sorry Robert, i stated that badly, i should have worded it properly. I was trying to insult Stephen Hawking, not you Robert. When i read back my post, it does sound like i was calling you a lier, most sincere apologies my friend.

SciManStev,
You can have an IQ of 200 and still be very wrong about the things you state. The thing about physics is that it does not matter how good your IQ is, physics is about logical, provable, repeatable scientific results from experiment and theory. If Hawking was that clever, he would be solving the problems in physics today instead of writing books for general public consumption. The fact is, Hawking has not published very many ground breaking scientific papers. He is more of a media public relations promoter for science than a brilliant scientist.

Carlos said,

JG, I like your interpretation about heaven. It's very plausible. Only problem is the DNA extraction. I really have a hard time believing that any scientific advancement would allow DNA extraction from the ashes of a cremated body. I might be wrong, after all the story of the phoenix has some historical foundation.

Carlos,
Thank you Carlos, i'm glad someone liked my interpretation. I took me a while to type it out.
Yes, i believe you are correct. If the dead person's body has been cremated, they won't be coming back. Not unless a sample of the persons DNA can be extracted from part of the body that was not burned. Maybe some skin cells from a bed sheet or some of their hair from a bed pillow. But as you know from crime programs on TV, people leave DNA all over the place during normal every day life. A recent news story said that scientists in japan are looking into bringing back the Woolly Mammoth from remains found in northern Siberia. Anything is possible. Those Pharaohs in Egypt where not mummifying their bodies for nothing. They did it because they knew they were coming back when science catches up!! How many Egyptians do you think would just love to clone a copy of King Tutankhamun and bring him back to life from a DNA sample if they thought it was possible?

I am not a physicist so I could not keep up with him in that area, but I am sure that I could run rings around him on legal issues.

Carlos i bet you would kick Hawking's ass in any law suit :) And in many other normal intellectual debates.

John.

---

Those Pharaohs in Egypt where not mummifying their bodies for nothing. They did it because they knew they were coming back when science catches up!!

Ummmm, they believed they would have an afterlife, they didn't know. I doubt if they knew what it would be either, but had their possessions buried with them, just in case.

Well i'm taking no chances when i'm dead. I want my body put in a hole in the ground like most people. No cremation for me anyway. Better be safe than sorry.

John.

---

All is well JG.
Thank you for that.

---

I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

This is an article that fits the topic of this thread. I am not commenting on the article, just presenting it for thought.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/19/my-take-doomsdayers-show-what%e2%80%99s-wrong-with-all-religion/?hpt=C2

Steve

---

Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website