After all these years I see that I was mistaken about Eve in the beginning; it is better to live outside the Garden with her than inside it without her.

Mark Twain

The Bible is supposedly God's perfect Word. It contains instructions to humankind for avoiding the eternal fires of hell. How wonderful and kind of this God to provide us with this means of overcoming the problems for which he is ultimately responsible! The all-powerful God could have, by a mere act of will, eliminated all of the problems we humans must endure, but instead, in his infinite wisdom, he has opted to offer this indecipherable amalgam of books which is the Bible as a means for avoiding the hell which he has prepared for us. The perfect God has decided to reveal his wishes in this imperfect work, written in the imperfect language of imperfect man, translated, copied, interpreted, voted on, and related by imperfect man.

No two men will ever agree what this perfect word of God is supposed to mean, since much of it is either self- contradictory, or obscured by enigmatic symbols. And yet the perfect God expects us imperfect humans to understand this paradoxical riddle using the imperfect minds with which he has equipped us. Surely the all-wise and all-powerful God would have known that it would have been better to reveal his perfect will directly to each of us, rather than to allow it to be debased and perverted by the imperfect language and botched interpretations of man.

Those that seek me early shall find me. - Proverbs 8:17

Then shall they call upon me but I will not answer; they shall
seek me early, but shall not find me. - Proverbs 1:28

???? God I'm confuse...Is it too late for me or not?

Don't belive any book that contradict itself. - Marc 1:02 The book of moron

> Those that seek me early shall find me. - Proverbs 8:17
>
>Then shall they call upon me but I will not answer; they shall
>seek me early, but shall not find me. - Proverbs 1:28
>
>???? God I'm confuse...Is it too late for me or not?
>
> Don't belive any book that contradict itself. - Marc 1:02 The book of moron

You surely are confussed. Like most, I see you've taken two verses to try and make the bible look like it contradicts itself. God doesn't contradict Himself
only man does the contradicting.

Lets take this verse first.

"Those that seek me early shall find me." First off, that's not even the entire verse. The verse reads:

"I love those who love me, and those who look for me with much desire will find me." Proverbs 8:17, KJV

Instead of just randomly picking verses why don't you start at the subject at verse one which reads.

"Does not wisdom call out? Does not understanding raise her voice?"
Proverbs 8:1, KJV

The subject here is "when wisdom calls". The Lord loves those who love Him, and those who seek Him find Him. Is it not wisdom to love the Lord? The subject goes to around verse 21 in the eight chapter of proverbs. This subject is referring to those who answer wisdom's call. How about we take a look at the second verse that supposedly contradicts itself.

"Then shall they call upon me but I will not answer; they shall
seek me early, but shall not find me." Proverbs 1:28, KJV

Again why don't you start from the subject. Which is speaking about those who reject wisdom's call. I would not usually do this, but I believe you are proving this subject to be true, in it's entirety:

20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,
22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil. Proverbs 1:20-33, KJV

So, I hate to rain on your parade but the two verses you quoted by no means contradict themselves. The Lord in His mercy even ends the subject by saying, "But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil." God is love no matter how you put it. If my time permitted I would have also answered your first question. If it is not answered by the time I return, I shall gladly answer it for you. Man, in his own wisdom becomes a fool!

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Marc, did you lift this from somewhere? It doesn't sound like your writing.

> The Bible is supposedly God's perfect Word. It contains instructions to
> humankind for avoiding the eternal fires of hell. How wonderful and kind of
> this God to provide us with this means of overcoming the problems for which he
> is ultimately responsible! The all-powerful God could have, by a mere act of
> will, eliminated all of the problems we humans must endure, but instead, in
> his infinite wisdom, he has opted to offer this indecipherable amalgam of
> books which is the Bible as a means for avoiding the hell which he has
> prepared for us. The perfect God has decided to reveal his wishes in this
> imperfect work, written in the imperfect language of imperfect man,
> translated, copied, interpreted, voted on, and related by imperfect man.
>
> No two men will ever agree what this perfect word of God is supposed to mean,
> since much of it is either self- contradictory, or obscured by enigmatic
> symbols. And yet the perfect God expects us imperfect humans to understand
> this paradoxical riddle using the imperfect minds with which he has equipped
> us. Surely the all-wise and all-powerful God would have known that it would
> have been better to reveal his perfect will directly to each of us, rather
> than to allow it to be debased and perverted by the imperfect language and
> botched interpretations of man.
>
>
>

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Carl,
My Music Ministry will be in the town of Ceiba, at the Roosevelt Roads Naval Station, the first week of January 2005. If you would like to attend the indoor session, just let me know how many, by Dec. 13,2004 as seating is limited. If not the outdoor session is open to all. We will hold a Praise and Worship Service Outside the Community Center Building our Last Sunday There. In Case of Rain, It will be held in one of the Aircraft Hangers.

Rocky

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www.boincsynergy.com

Devils Way bring more Fun more Secure more Serverpower ;-)))
omm omm ohmm

> > ... It will be held in one of the Aircraft Hangers.
>
> I'm curious. As the USN does not fly as large aircraft as the USAF; just how
> large would some of these hangers be?
>
I would guess thay have hangars large enough to hold a Billy Graham revival meeting with G.W. as a guest.

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Dave Nelson

Open letter to Wordweaver:

Dear Sir;

Despite my avowed hostility toward religion, even Christians who know me don't think I'm such a bad guy. My hostility toward religion stems from the simple facts that I think not only Christianity but all religions are based upon false premises. This in itself would not be important if religion were simply wrong. Unfortunately, they are not just wrong but pernicious. Millions of children are brought up with beliefs that are not different from fairy tales. A brief reading of the history of the wars of the world, including our present war of aggression in Iraq, will ilustrate my point.

I have tried to give you the benefit of my lack of knowlege of you personally. I know what attributes religious believers ascribe to themselves. Kindness, generosity, humility etc. As to individuals some of this is correct. Individual Christians are for the most part decent people. It's when they gather together in groups led by people such as you that the trouble arises. I am sure that you do not think of yourself as arrogant. That is a property that you ascribe only to people like me, and in fact, to me personally in one of your previous posts. But I have come to the conclusion that you are the most arrogant person that I have ever encountered. Arrogance is the ground under your feet and the very air that you breathe. You cannot see your own arrogance because you are enveloped in it. The forest for the trees syndrome. In addition you are totally ignorant. Not just ordinary ignorance. I suspect that you have had the advantage of higher education and that you are inherently intelligent. I'm talking about a special kind of ignorance. I call it the SWI syndrome. Selective Wilful Ignorance(SWI). You deny your native intelligence due to your entrapment by what you conceive to be the word of god. The result of all this is that you have turned yourself into a vicious bigot. I have not met with a more bitter hatefilled person. I pity you from the bottom of my heart.

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Dave Nelson

Because the people of the island of Vieques got sick of being bombed and strafed by the US military for about 60 years they held alot of protests....it's a long story but the US finally stopped the attacks on the island (people were dying) and as an addendum shut down the largest employer on the the main island at Rosy Roads. There remain very large hangers there as well as alot of other military discards from the recent abandonment of the base.
Rocky-
Great that you're taking your show on the road and I hope that you have a successful tour. I have been a musician all my life and over the course of my years as a player have developed a negative attitude toward music that has been composed and produced with some ulterior motive involved. Some people call me a purist but that to me is absurd. Nothing is pure in the arts but some things are quite corrupted. I myself have played music in the past that was composed with the intent to convince people to purchase a certain brand of tires for their car. And I confess that there are other graver sins of artistic prostitution of which I am certainly guilty. But in recent years I have repented of my sins and now refrain from exposing myself, or participation in such displays of musical harlotry.
I dont doubt that you are using some fine players who have developed their skills and are a pleasure to behold. But I have found , honestly, that an awful lot of 'Christian Music' and especially the genre of Christian Rock is topped off with self serving and egotistical 'stars' who turn my stomach with their purity and devotion to the cause while furtively sorting out the local action.
And for the most part, found the music, when used as a vehicle of persuasion, lacks a certain essential spirit- when a message is insistently smudged into it.
I hope your tour is a blast ....cc

Open letter to Rocky:

I admire your outlook on life and applaude your very generous donation of your time and resources to the things in which you believe. Other than your irrational(I think)beliefs, I think you would be just the same good person that you are regardless of such beliefs. If you lost your religious beliefs right now, you would still be the same good person that you are. Religion does not define morality.

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Dave Nelson

> Admiral, I'm sorry, but I am not impressed by your pious platitudes concerning
> "goodness without God".

So, WordWeaver, how do you feel about goodness without Christ? FOr that matter, how do you feel about "redemption" (salvation, heaven) without Christ?

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the only religios that the world have is money.everbody that ignore that
will be in short time a qutsider from the society.that is the FACTS that nobody that have IQ can ignore !allways this discussion about my god is the best !

> Open letter to Rocky:
>
> I admire your outlook on life and applaude your very generous donation of your
> time and resources to the things in which you believe. Other than your
> irrational(I think)beliefs, I think you would be just the same good person
> that you are regardless of such beliefs. If you lost your religious beliefs
> right now, you would still be the same good person that you are. Religion
> does not define morality.

Well Admiral,
I will have to disagree. I AM who I am because of my Faith. The road I was heading down prior to receiving Christ as my Personal Lord And Savior was the complete opposite of the Path that I am led down now. There are so many that participate in this thread that scoff at every idea and every quote presented from the Bible. And most do it for the sake of arguement. To cause decension and hatred among the Faith. Other members on my team have been attacked because they back what they say with scripture. But what better word that "The Truth"
It is not something that they wrote, the Bible is something that can be referenced by those who wish to challenge. We offer documentation to back our Faith. I speak of my acceptance of the Lord through my own personal journey, and it should be taken just as that.I do that because those that do not share in my Faith can understand my convictions on a more basic level, but those that do understand my Faith and Beliefs can use Scripture that explain it.
So many on this thread blame God for everything that goes wrong in their lives, because "he being all " could have prevented it. Bottom line, what kind of World would this be, if there was no sickness or death, or everybody got everything they wanted. All anyone needs to do is just think.
Admiral, I pray that you have a change of Heart, because instead of friends we could be Brothers walking the streets of heaven.

Very Sincerely,

Rocky Cudd

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www.boincsynergy.com

> Rocky-
> Great that you're taking your show on the road and I hope that you have a
> successful tour. I have been a musician all my life and over the course of my
> years as a player have developed a negative attitude toward music that has
> been composed and produced with some ulterior motive involved. Some people
> call me a purist but that to me is absurd. Nothing is pure in the arts but
> some things are quite corrupted. I myself have played music in the past that
> was composed with the intent to convince people to purchase a certain brand of
> tires for their car. And I confess that there are other graver sins of
> artistic prostitution of which I am certainly guilty. But in recent years I
> have repented of my sins and now refrain from exposing myself, or
> participation in such displays of musical harlotry.
> I dont doubt that you are using some fine players who have developed their
> skills and are a pleasure to behold. But I have found , honestly, that an
> awful lot of 'Christian Music' and especially the genre of Christian Rock is
> topped off with self serving and egotistical 'stars' who turn my stomach with
> their purity and devotion to the cause while furtively sorting out the local
> action.
> And for the most part, found the music, when used as a vehicle of persuasion,
> lacks a certain essential spirit- when a message is insistently smudged into
> it.
> I hope your tour is a blast ....cc

Well Carl,
First I was asked 11 months ago if I would be interested in going to the Town In P.R. by a Christian Music company in Nashville Tn. that provides me with music and some background tracks. My only reply could be Sure, praying that my Health would hold out. It is not often that we get to go to such distant places, so I consider it an opportunity to share Gods Word with those that are coming to hear a message, and all we ask that they bring an friend. We offer on invitation to the alter for those that want to freely give their hearts and souls to Jesus. We don't charge admission. We don't twist arms, have bouncers at Our doors, nor do we intimidate those hearing the message. I do not sing Christian Rock, I sing contemporary praise and Worship music, a long with many traditional hymns. I have no problem with any Christian Music, as long as it Uplifts, and Praises The Lord. I will go where the Lord leads me. The purpose of our Music Ministry is to uplift Our Lord, not ourselves. It is not about us. We were given the gift of song, and we are given those gifts to share.
I hope You change your mind.

Respectfully,

Rocky

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www.boincsynergy.com