You keep trying to grab a handfull of air.
The word is unknowable. You cant define it. You cant know it.
You cant encompass, surround, or circumscibe it.
It's unknowable.
No definiton necessary or indeed possibe.
If it's there. well there it is.

Top 15 Biblical Ways to Acquire a Wife

1. Find an attractive prisoner of war, bring her home, shave her head, trim her nails, and give her new clothes. Then she's yours.
-- (Deuteronomy 21:11-13)

2. Find a prostitute and marry her.
-- Hosea (Hosea 1:1-3)

3. Find a man with seven daughters, and impress him by watering his flock.
-- Moses (Exodus 2:16-21)

4. Purchase a piece of property, and get a woman as part of the deal.
-- Boaz (Ruth 4:5-10)

5. Go to a party and hide. When the women come out to dance, grab one and carry her off to be your wife.
-- Benjaminites (Judges 21:19-25)

6. Have God create a wife for you while you sleep. Note: this will cost you a rib.
-- Adam (Genesis 2:19-24)

7. Agree to work seven years in exchange for a woman's hand in marriage. Get tricked into marrying the wrong woman. Then work another seven years for the woman you wanted to marry in the first place. That's right. Fourteen years of toil for a woman.
-- Jacob (Genesis 29:15-30)

8. Cut off 200 foreskins off of your future father-in-law's enemies and get his daughter for a wife.
-- David (I Samuel 18:27)

9. Even if no one is out there, just wander around a bit and you'll definitely find someone. (It's all relative of course.)
-- Cain (Genesis 4:16-17)

10. Become the emperor of a huge nation and hold a beauty contest.
-- Xerxes or Ahasuerus (Esther 2:3-4)

11. When you see someone you like, go home and tell your parents, "I have seen a ...woman; now get her for me." If your parents question your decision, simply say, "Get her for me. She's the one for me."
-- Samson (Judges 14:1-3)

12. Kill any husband and take HIS wife. (Prepare to lose your son though).
-- David (2 Samuel 11)

13. Wait for your brother to die. Take his widow. (It's not just a good idea, it's the law).
-- Onan and Boaz (Deuteronomy or Leviticus, example in Ruth)

14. Don't be so picky. Make up for quality with quantity.
-- Solomon (1 Kings 11:1-3)

15. A wife?...NOT!!!
-- Paul (1 Corinthians 7:32-35)

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......In Space No One Can Hear You Scream......

> You keep trying to grab a handfull of air.
> The word is unknowable. You cant define it. You cant know it.
> You cant encompass, surround, or circumscibe it.
> It's unknowable.
> No definiton necessary or indeed possibe.
> If it's there. well there it is.
>
Then we can't discuss it, because what is the point? We could be talking a bout two, or a million different things.

---

H. Richard,

This is what I gather you have said:

You don't believe in "X"

Therefore you don't have to define "X"

This is a logical fallacy. If you fail to define "X" then you have said nothing.

You claim to be scientific and logical, which is your basis for not believing in "God". The first rule of both science and logic is definition of terms.

If your atheism is simply a personal belief, based on no logic or scientific method, then you are the same as those who believe in "God" simply on "faith", whom you disagree with. Why is their faith different than yours? They can't (or won't) explain it in concrete terms either.

---

> As we are talking at cross-purposes - I can not define what does not exist and
> you wish me to do so; I think it is best that I observe your progress from
> this point and perhaps, though I highly doubt it, I may get an inkling of what
> it is you want.
>
> Other than that, I wish to watch Shrek 2 which I bought today and drink
> some of my Merlot mixed with cranberry juice. Perhaps I shall look in again
> when I have, hopefully, received my humour dose for the evening.
>
> By-the-by, there is no need for you to use my full name - unless, of course,
> you are copying and pasting or, horrors, my first initial and middle
> name. Be as bold as the other Americans and call me by my middle name.
>

I never meant to offend you by calling you H. Richard, thank you for suggesting Richard, it's easier (and it's my father's name, though he goes by "Dick", a nickname from another time). You have a good time with your wine and movie, I'll be watching "Scrubs".

Now, in parting, and please don't take offense, but I already knew you were an atheist. That has been made abundantly clear in your previous posts. But this is the first time you have said you "can not" define the term "God". In all your other posts, you have said that you do not need to define it because it does not exist. In that case, I will not ask you again, but neither can I take your arguments in this thread about religion seriously, since I don't know what you are talking about (I am only certain that you believe "God", some undefined concept, does not exist).

---

> Be as bold as the other Americans and call me by my middle name.
I hear the lid to a can of worms popping.

[i]Thanks![/url]

> > Be as bold as the other Americans and call me by my middle name.
> I hear the lid to a can of worms popping.
>
> Thanks!
>

Misfit,
What's this all about? What can of worms? Do you think I should be calling him Mr. Utzig?

---

> > > Be as bold as the other Americans and call me by my middle name.
> > I hear the lid to a can of worms popping.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
>
> Misfit,
> What's this all about? What can of worms? Do you think I should be calling
> him Mr. Utzig?
Isnt a little late in the evening to be feeling paranoid? Oh wait.. you have another 2 hours. I wasnt talking about you.
Perhaps this would be a good time for a disclaimer or colorful metaphor?

Some religious wacko's invade Las Vegas

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Account frozen...

***off topic***
@achiestdragon
have a look at
http://boincstats.com/stats/team_graph.php?pr=sah&id=113956
great or ? ;-)))

It has been over 36 hours now since WW's last post and longer than that for Simeone and Rocky. Do you suppose that they have decided to stop casting their pearls to us dogs?

---

Dave Nelson

> It has been over 36 hours now since WW's last post and longer than that for
> Simeone and Rocky. Do you suppose that they have decided to stop casting
> their pearls to us dogs?
>

Now I no why I was feeling so sad. I actually miss them, no more laugh...

> How about this:
>
> God: "Some undefinable state, conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient
> originator of the universe, and unknowable by physical means of proof".
>
> There have been many who believe that they spiritually know God.
>
> And I hate to keep repeating myself, but is this close to the concept we have
> been discussing in this thread? Is this what atheists believe does not exist?
> Is this a general, pantheistic working definition?

That sounds good to me. As for the little debate about whether a definiton is required for God when you don't believe a God exists, well, I think a definition is still necessary, for how can you claim something doesn't exist if you know not what you are talking about, or if another persons definition varies so much that what you are claiming doesn't exist may perhaps exist by the rules of the other persons definition.

> I perceive no difference in what I have been writing other than in the way I
> addressed what I stated to yourself.
> Your argument, it seems to me, goes as such:
> You tell me you believe in a god. I accept it and could care less.

Richard, I do believe in God, but that is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the term can be defined.

> I tell you I am an ætheist, in effect do not believe in any god. You tell me
> you can not accept it.

No! That is absolutely wrong. I can and I do accept that you are an atheist. It’s not my decision to make, it is yours and it is very personal. What I can not understand is that many Christians believe that “salvation” for lack of a better word, comes from a personal decision to accept Christ, then have no problem going about beating others over the head to get them to make the same personal decision–if it’s a personal decision, doesn’t one have to come to it personally?

> Why? Because for you to accept it, I must first define for you, your god;
> something that I believe does not exist - an impossibility, other than
> defining nothing.

I don’t believe defining something and believing in it are the same at all, and I don’t think most others would agree with you.

> My question to you, regarding this, is: Is this a devious attempt to try to
> convert weak-minded ætheists/agnostics to christianity? This is a
> rhetorical question.

Have I ever tries to convert you, or anyone on this thread to Christianity? Or any other belief? To the contrary, I have stated plainly that I am not trying to change you. Look over my posts: I have consistently asked (of you and others) only to define “God” so that the concept could be discussed rationally; I have never asked anyone, believer or non, to change their belief. Do not confuse me with WordWeaver.

> However, whilst reading a book now, I thought of something that is very
> pertinent to myself that should be asked over three or four posts, depending
> on how you answer.
>
> You are, I believe, a christian. May I ask of which faith?

I am not a Christian, I am Baha‘i. I will watch with interest where this is going.

---

> That sounds good to me. As for the little debate about whether a definiton is
> required for God when you don't believe a God exists, well, I think a
> definition is still necessary, for how can you claim something doesn't exist
> if you know not what you are talking about, or if another persons definition
> varies so much that what you are claiming doesn't exist may perhaps exist by
> the rules of the other persons definition.

Thank you bfarrant! I believe we can come up with a neutral definition. Indeed, when one refers to "God", either as a believer or an atheist, one has to have some idea of the concept. But rationtional discussion requires that we all understand that concept.

It has been asked here: "If God is everywhere, how can Jesus sit on His right hand?" That assumes that "God" is corporeal and he has a right hand, but even the person who asks this trick question likely does not believe "God" has a right hand in a physical sense. This is an example of why agreement on terms is needed. Now, we probably don't have to define "universe" or "anger", as these are not disputed, but especially in this thread, I believe "God" must be defined by all participants, whether or not they believe, in order to have a discussion.

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