Political Thread [4] - CLOSED

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Message 45430 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 3:15:51 UTC
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Message 45435 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 3:25:13 UTC
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Message 45441 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 3:33:11 UTC

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Message 45447 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 3:48:20 UTC - in response to Message 45441.  

U.S. Forces
Hold 70 Percent of Fallujah


Even if they can't fight against the US troops I have the feeling
that most of them left since long ago. After all it was known that
it would happen weeks before election. Bad strategy.
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Message 45449 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 3:58:46 UTC

Just came on the news Arafat is Dead....
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Message 45453 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 4:04:13 UTC

Arafat Officially Announced Dead -Al Jazeera

PARIS (Reuters) - Palestinian President Yasser Arafat has been officially announced dead in a Paris military hospital, Arab broadcaster Al Jazeera said on Thursday.
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Message 45463 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 4:29:30 UTC - in response to Message 45397.  

> OK now we can discuss. In raw dollars I had Japan First, Now it seems it had
> change since compare to the document I have here. Nevertheless, if you look
> at GNP chart, The US doesn't seem to bother much about shithole countries...

Don't be stupid. A dollar is a dollar to the person who recieves the aid--they don't care what percent of GNP that dollar represents. We give more money, and that is what pays the aid bills. And why should the US, with its fantastically successful economy, aid some central African dirt farmer more than Egypt, South Africa, or even some Southern European country, all of whom have a greater stake in the results of such aid? It seems our priority should be our direct neighbors, then South America, then the rest of the world (and Japan should be helping SE Asia, etc.)

And another thing: there is a history of helping other countries then having them spit in our face, going back to the end of WWII. It is discouraging. When the US has economic slowdowns, what countries change their fiscal policy to soften the blow?

So, Marc, do you get an erection spreading these lies about the US? Does your penis wilt when you remember that you are free and prosperous only because America saved your parent's sorry ass militarily and economically for the last 100 years?

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Message 45486 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 7:52:39 UTC
Last modified: 11 Nov 2004, 7:53:18 UTC

http://www.fuckthesouth.com/

I say the "blue states" and "liberals" in the metropolitan areas should stop bailing out the idiotic rednecks in the "red (welfare) states." Let's stop giving "welfare" to gun-nut farmers & manufacturers and buy cheaper food & goods from Africa & Asia.

PS -- as for "abandoning my country" --- I'd still like to see America "grow up" and not turn into a third-world hellhole because of brain-dead right-wing religious fanatics and corporate whorebags that think the "Founding Fathers" were all about the current perverted form of capitalism.

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Message 45493 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 8:55:24 UTC - in response to Message 45449.  

...and mid-east peace will never be seen again by this generation.


Shit.


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Message 45498 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 9:37:27 UTC - in response to Message 45493.  

> ...and mid-east peace will never be seen again by this generation.
>
>
> Shit.
>
I hope it's not so. Clinton had a good feeling for the situation there, but Bush has tryed to find a way to connect Al Quida and Iraq. Nevertheless from my point of view the course of the frontier is not the best. Allthough it has something to do with strategic thinking. If I'm playing Civilisation III I try to hold my border as little as possible to lower the danger and to concentrate my force. But if I have a look on the map in Middle East I see a country in a country.

Nobody wants to giv up something, like little childs and that is what making this trouble. It would be no problem if they accept each other, but ... . Form me it looks like old Europe in the Middleage after Napolean has created many little countries in Midlle Europe.

As long somebody is trying to destroy their relations, there is no hope.

Eye around eye, tooth around tooth (I hope this way it sounds right in English ;-))

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Message 45512 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 11:07:19 UTC
Last modified: 11 Nov 2004, 11:14:03 UTC


<p>
Think Different Read @ll News

http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage/
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Message 45514 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 11:13:17 UTC
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Message 45520 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 11:53:50 UTC - in response to Message 45463.  
Last modified: 11 Nov 2004, 13:39:26 UTC

> Don't be stupid. A dollar is a dollar to the person who recieves the
> aid--they don't care what percent of GNP that dollar represents. We give more
> money, and that is what pays the aid bills. And why should the US, with its
> fantastically successful economy, aid some central African dirt farmer more
> than Egypt, South Africa, or even some Southern European country, all of whom
> have a greater stake in the results of such aid? It seems our priority should
> be our direct neighbors, then South America, then the rest of the world (and
> Japan should be helping SE Asia, etc.)
>
> And another thing: there is a history of helping other countries then having
> them spit in our face, going back to the end of WWII. It is discouraging.
> When the US has economic slowdowns, what countries change their fiscal policy
> to soften the blow?
>
> So, Marc, do you get an erection spreading these lies about the US? Does your
> penis wilt when you remember that you are free and prosperous only because
> America saved your parent's sorry ass militarily and economically for the last
> 100 years?
>

My Penis is doing really fine, thank you.

You are right Tom, The US is giving a lot of help. It is true that You saved
Europe during WWII, The Russian also saved Europe, maybe even more then The
US did (D-Day was a fairytail compare to the east front battle) and thanks for
the Marshall plan. Now this was 60 years ago. When will you stop to bring this
every time a European says something about USA that you don't like ? The fact
is I have never said lies about the USA, you just don't like seeing the truth,
that's different.

Now back to foreign aid. I'll remind you that this subject comes from a a reply to SmartPatrol post suggesting to, quote "Halt the exportation of American
grain to every single third world shithole in the world"

Now I am going to show you why that comment from SmartPatrol is being so
funny. America is giving a lot of money, but it's not the only one, like
most american think. Now look at this chart carrefully.



These numbers includes ALL aid (military, food, education, etc) but there is one thing that the numbers are not saying is where that money goes, Wich country is receiving it. I will talk about that later.

The total for USA is 15,791 Million Dollars.

Now if you take the first 3 EU members country on the list (total EU is 25)
France, Germany and UK, the Total is

7,337
6,694
6,166
-----
20,197 Million Dollars

So basicaly, European union is giving more raw dollars than the USA.

Now lets look at where all this money goes. That's where the real fun begin.

Since 1992, the U.S. has offered Israel an additional $2 billion annually in loan guarantees. Congressional researchers have disclosed that between 1974 and 1989, $16.4 billion in U.S. military loans were converted to grants and that this was the understanding from the beginning. Indeed, all past U.S. loans to Israel have eventually been forgiven by Congress, which has undoubtedly helped Israel's often-touted claim that they have never defaulted on a U.S. government loan. U.S. policy since 1984 has been that economic assistance to Israel must equal or exceed Israel's annual debt repayment to the United States. Unlike other countries, which receive aid in quarterly installments, aid to Israel since 1982 has been given in a lump sum at the beginning of the fiscal year, leaving the U.S. government to borrow from future revenues. Israel even lends some of this money back through U.S. treasury bills and collects the additional interest.

In addition, there is the more than $1.5 billion in private U.S. funds that go to Israel annually in the form of $1 billion in private tax-deductible donations and $500 million in Israeli bonds. The ability of Americans to make what amounts to tax-deductible contributions to a foreign government, made possible through a number of Jewish charities, does not exist with any other country. Nor do these figures include short- and long-term commercial loans from U.S. banks, which have been as high as $1 billion annually in recent years.

Total U.S. aid to Israel is approximately one-third of the American foreign- aid budget, even though Israel comprises just .001 percent of the world's population and already has one of the world's higher per capita incomes. Indeed, Israel's GNP is higher than the combined GNP of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza. With a per capita income of about $14,000, Israel ranks as the sixteenth wealthiest country in the world; Israelis enjoy a higher per capita income than oil-rich Saudi Arabia and are only slightly less well-off than most Western European countries.

------------

Tom I really don't care that you like it or not, but these are facts. American
aid to foreign nation are more strategic then for real developping aid.

1)
When an american gives one dollar to foreign aid, 33 cents goes to Israel.

2)
When an American gives one dollar to foreign aid, a Norwegian is giving
seven dollars and it goes to the right place...........................

And guess what, I am now having an erection, not because I like spreading
lies about the US, I never did, but because I just woke up and I have to
to go piss urgently. Before I go, I would really appreciate from you that
you stop giving me a bad reputation. When I have an erection it's for a
good reason...



<img src="http://boinc.mundayweb.com/one/stats.php?userID=2384&amp;trans=off"><img src="http://img98.exs.cx/img98/1999/hamradio.gif"><img src="http://img54.exs.cx/img54/3872/cqkey.gif">
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Message 45522 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 12:05:26 UTC

It's also significant to see the giving measured on the GNP.



WARR - Wissenschaftliche Arbeitsgemeinschaft für Raketentechnik und Raumfahrt
(WARR - scientific working group for rocket technology and space travel)
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Message 45540 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 13:51:26 UTC

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Message 45543 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 14:15:50 UTC

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Message 45554 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 14:31:51 UTC - in response to Message 45493.  
Last modified: 17 Dec 2004, 5:09:41 UTC

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Message 45586 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 16:04:57 UTC

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Message 45601 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 17:14:11 UTC - in response to Message 45520.  

> In addition, there is the more than $1.5 billion in private U.S. funds that go
> to Israel annually in the form of $1 billion in private tax-deductible
> donations and $500 million in Israeli bonds. The ability of Americans to make
> what amounts to tax-deductible contributions to a foreign government, made
> possible through a number of Jewish charities, does not exist with any other
> country. Nor do these figures include short- and long-term commercial loans
> from U.S. banks, which have been as high as $1 billion annually in recent
> years.

ah, Israel´s sons...they ever get more money than others.
Very good example of US´s aid: instead of having that money in "weapons to attack arabs" in the budget, they put in "AID to other countries"...so they give it to jews, they buy weapons and kills arabs. A very intelligent way of killing people appearing they are helping others...
"Raggio spezza, amista lunga"
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Message 45644 - Posted: 11 Nov 2004, 19:51:57 UTC - in response to Message 45554.  

In the last 4 millenia, how often has there actually been peace in the mid-east? Perhaps 10% of the time?
I'm thinking of the time from Issac Shamir's first agreement in Madrid through Rabin, Arafat, H.M. Hussein, and Clinton's rose-garden agreement, up until BiBi Netanyahu's replacement by Ehud Barak. That was a rather decent decade we had there. Pity it won't happen again for a long time.

Quite hostly, all that's left are the batlle-axe general Sharon, an indifferent American President, M.H. Abdulla who is stuck between Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Israel, and the Palestinians have... who?

Here's what my crystal ball tells me: For the next 2-4 years, the Palestinian groups will all be jockeying for position in an undeclared civil war. During this time, peace is impossible. Until they realize that they're only managing to kill themselves, and then form a coalition, that could take anywhere from 1-2 additional years. Then once a coalition is formed (Or more likely, whoever survives the civil war), everyone is going to turn on Israel for not helping during strife. During this entire sorry episode, not one person - Not even Arafat's widow - will be able to speak for the Palestinian people the way that Arafat could.

As for the Israeli side, they can't do anything except engage Palestine militarily once the infighting ends and the attacks resume in Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv, Haifa, Eilat, etc.. There can't be any peace process if there's nobody to negotiate with. Unfortunately the only one who hasn't mastered that concept is Ariel Sharon, and therefore he will take unilateral action with the blessing of Bush's neglect.

Now I have to put in another quarter into the cristal ball.
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