Seems like they have been able to make hydrogen safely and cheaply for a couple years. Wonder how close car companies are or will Oil companies kill this?
http://www.physorg.com/news98556080.html

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
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Before GM laid a turd they had a hydrogen model for future cars with the same base and interchangeable tops. no wiring or cabling. everything was electronic. We'll see what happens. What is needed is fueling stations where these new vehicles are introduced. It wouldnt be worth having if you couldnt fuel it.

I can't see it being done in Texas though. Seems to many morons cant read signs that say NO SMOKING WHILE FUELING etc. I'd hate to see what they'd do with hyrogen gas

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

According to the article and episode on Science Channel fueling wouldn't have to be done often except for adding water and little metal balls....

"The method makes it unnecessary to store or transport hydrogen - two major challenges in creating a hydrogen economy, said Jerry Woodall, a distinguished professor of electrical and computer engineering at Purdue who invented the process.

"The hydrogen is generated on demand, so you only produce as much as you need when you need it," said Woodall, who presented research findings detailing how the system works during a recent energy symposium at Purdue.

The technology could be used to drive small internal combustion engines in various applications, including portable emergency generators, lawn mowers and chain saws. The process could, in theory, also be used to replace gasoline for cars and trucks, he said.

Hydrogen is generated spontaneously when water is added to pellets of the alloy, which is made of aluminum and a metal called gallium. The researchers have shown how hydrogen is produced when water is added to a small tank containing the pellets. Hydrogen produced in such a system could be fed directly to an engine, such as those on lawn mowers.

"When water is added to the pellets, the aluminum in the solid alloy reacts because it has a strong attraction to the oxygen in the water," Woodall said.

This reaction splits the oxygen and hydrogen contained in water, releasing hydrogen in the process.

The gallium is critical to the process because it hinders the formation of a skin normally created on aluminum's surface after oxidation. This skin usually prevents oxygen from reacting with aluminum, acting as a barrier. Preventing the skin's formation allows the reaction to continue until all of the aluminum is used....."

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
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... Hydrogen is generated spontaneously when water is added to pellets of the alloy, which is made of aluminum and a metal called gallium. ... Hydrogen produced in such a system could be fed directly to an engine, such as those on lawn mowers.

"When water is added to the pellets, the aluminum in the solid alloy reacts because it has a strong attraction to the oxygen in the water," Woodall said.

This reaction splits the oxygen and hydrogen contained in water, releasing hydrogen in the process. ... until all of the aluminum is used....."

That looks to be horribly energy inefficient. Also, is the aluminium oxide recovered and reused? What of the gallium contamination in the process?


The whole point about a hydrogen economy is that oil can be efficiently split into hydrogen and carbon dioxide at or near the well head. A good aside to this is that the carbon dioxide can then be pumped back underground to push out more oil, and to trap the carbon dioxide in the oil strata. Burning the hydrogen produces just water vapour (no further carbon dioxide).

A big problem with that idea is that oil is much more convenient to transport as a liquid to where it is needed than is hydrogen as a gas...


Keep searchin',
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Agreed as with other forms of enery it gets more efficient the larger the generator. So having individual cars with hydrogen creators and burners would be very inefficient use of space. Best to have hydrogen generation plants and fueling stations than having thousands of smaller generation plants riding down the road

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Going by the comments in that article this has been known about for a good many years one refered to using toilet cleaner and aluminium in a pop/soda bottle also a respondent commented that you could use Mercury also that the Gallium does not get used up as it is a catalyst.You Tube has some videos of the reaction very interesting.

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Old enough to know better(but)still young enough not to care

I just had a newsletter from an online selling firm called D-mail which advertises a hydrogen-powered model car for 79 euros, It should host a fuel cell and an electric motor. The hydrogen is obtained by electrolysis of water with energy provided by two AA batteries. I don't know about its safety, but the D-mail firm is reliable. I bought from them a backpack with solar cells able to recharge batteries on your cell phone and/or digital camera.
Tullio

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Check out recent issues of Car and Driver. They took a Hydrogen car around a several hundred mile loop in California. They discuss the various filling stations and how long it takes at each one to refuel (varies by the pressure capabilities of the station). Seems that 1 Kg of hydrdrogen (10,000 PSI ?) will have the BTU equivalent of a gallon of Gasoline (120,000 BTU)

Wow, I guess Iceland has had Hydrogen cars for a few years....Of course when they do come out here they will be very expensive and be "new technology"...
"Iceland is one of the few countries that have filling stations dispensing hydrogen fuel for cars powered by fuel cells. It is also one of a few countries currently capable of producing hydrogen in adequate quantities at a reasonable cost, because of Iceland's plentiful renewable sources of energy"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
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I've read in "Nature" magazine that in order to produce electricity by wind power in quantity sufficient to supply hydrogen to all American cars you wold need to build a hundred million eolic generators. In GB and in Italy about ten millions would be sufficient. Go tell this to "Friends of the Earth" and wait for their reaction.
Tullio

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I've read in "Nature" magazine that in order to produce electricity by wind power in quantity sufficient to supply hydrogen to all American cars you wold need to build a hundred million eolic generators. In GB and in Italy about ten millions would be sufficient. Go tell this to "Friends of the Earth" and wait for their reaction.
Tullio

But how many nuke plants would we need? America could develope much more Thermo Power but for some reason we don't. Try explaining to these "Friends" that no matter what we do, we can not hurt thier Mother Earth and you get a better reaction. 100,000 years after we are gone Mother Earth will be quite fine and on with her next experiments.
I want hydrogen because the Oil companies and Oil Countries need to be put in thier place and I hate the smell of Diesel.

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
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Hydrogen is not a natural resource. You need 5 kWh of electricity to produce a cubic meter of hydrogen in standard conditions. I would rather make use of the huge fusion reactor we see every morning: the Sun.

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Hydrogen is not a natural resource. You need 5 kWh of electricity to produce a cubic meter of hydrogen in standard conditions. I would rather make use of the huge fusion reactor we see every morning: the Sun.

There are people who go six months without seeing it. What do you propose for them?

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There are ways of transporting electricity on long distances. Aerial cables or underground cables, in alternating current or direct current.

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Hydrogen is not a natural resource. You need 5 kWh of electricity to produce a cubic meter of hydrogen in standard conditions. I would rather make use of the huge fusion reactor we see every morning: the Sun.

There are people who go six months without seeing it. What do you propose for them?

wind power?

btw tullio DC isn't good for transporting electricity. DC tends to fade after about 100M(eters) This was Edisons lament. He wanted to put Dc power generators on every city block to provide electricity. Tesla got it right. Also note that many electric companies in America extol Edison by using his name yet use Telsa's creation

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

I personally think ,that we should be concentrating our research on microwave power transmitters ,that will be more efficent but for some reason the idea is not being picked up, hydrogen, fusion etc are all primitive and so is solar .Lets start new ideas here is an extract. Imagine your car using electricity that it gets from a microwave satelite you can go anywhere at any time for as long as you are in the horizon of that satellite.LOOKS FUNNY ISNT IT.

MICROWAVE POWER TRANSMISSION

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

Hydrogen is not a natural resource. You need 5 kWh of electricity to produce a cubic meter of hydrogen in standard conditions. I would rather make use of the huge fusion reactor we see every morning: the Sun.

There are people who go six months without seeing it. What do you propose for them?

wind power?

btw tullio DC isn't good for transporting electricity. DC tends to fade after about 100M(eters) This was Edisons lament. He wanted to put Dc power generators on every city block to provide electricity. Tesla got it right. Also note that many electric companies in America extol Edison by using his name yet use Telsa's creation

DC is just fine and can be better than AC for power transmission over long distances. Look up about "DC power interconnectors" for power transmission.

The important bit for good power transmission over long distances is to utilise high voltage (and low current) for your Watts.

AC has a big advantage for local power distribution in that you can easily step down high voltage (low current) to lower voltages (higher current) with the use of transformers (no moving parts). So, you can use (deadly) high voltage to cheaply get along your 100m and then drop down to safer (more expensive voltages) locally where you safely need that power.


Trying to transfer power via microwaves is hopelessly inefficient unless you want to cook your goose!

Keep searchin',
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

From what I know the Ferrovie dello Stato in Italy are still using 3000 Volt direct current for electric trains while the rest of Europe is using 15000 Volt AC. The technology was introduced in the Thirties and is still working, although it means you need engines capable of working with two types of current when you cross borders. There was a plan of introducing AC power in Sardinia to test new engines but it was never carried out.
Tullio

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Trying to transfer power via microwaves is hopelessly inefficient unless you want to cook your goose!

Japan eyes solar station in space as new energy source

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

When will we see Hydrogen cars?

To be honest, I hope that we never do.

"More energy is needed to isolate hydrogen from natural compounds than can ever be recovered from its use" says fuel cell expert Ulf Bossel.

http://www.physorg.com/news85074285.html


Also, I feel that the reason there is such a big push for hydrogen powered cars is because selling hydrogen at local fueling stations is a continuation of the profit model used by petroleum companies through-out the 20th century.

They want you to drive to their store, buy their product, and then go about your business. If you could just plug your car in at home like an appliance, it would mean the end of their revenue stream.


I would love to see us start looking beyond what makes a profit, and start looking at what makes sense. In the long run, renewable energy from sources like solar, wind, and geo-thermal is the way to go.


Dennis