NASA's lunar-mapping satellite has just begun its four-year mission searching for water on the moon, but it has already turned up a discovery that has scientists scratching their heads.

The Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter's seven scientific instruments have indeed confirmed the presence of large amounts of hydrogen -- a marker for water -- in permanently shadowed south pole craters, where scientists had known there were deposits of hydrogen. But the instruments have also found the element in regions where the sun shines.

NASA scientists said Thursday that this could mean water is buried underground. Water could not exist on the surface, where it is exposed to daytime temperatures as high as 220 degrees Fahrenheit, according to Richard Vondrak, project scientist for the mission, known as LRO.

"We don't know the abundance or how deeply it is buried," Vondrak said at a briefing at Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. Nor do they know whether the hydrogen is water in the form of ice. If it is, the discovery would greatly improve the chances for a successful return to the moon by astronauts.

Water on the moon would reduce the need for hauling it from Earth to supply future colonists. Water could also be used to produce oxygen for respiration and to make rocket fuel for a trip to Mars.

The orbiter was launched three months ago on a mission to produce the most detailed map of the moon ever, in large part to find evidence of water and potential building sites for future human colonists.

A second spacecraft, the Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite, or LCROSS, separated from the reconnaissance orbiter just after launch and is now positioning itself to send its Centaur rocket crashing into a crater called Cabeus A.

Scientists hope that the collision, scheduled for the morning of Oct. 9, will send up a cloud of dust and ice particles that can be measured by the sensing satellite and the orbiter, which will observe the crash.

The reconnaissance spacecraft has spent most of the last three months checking its instruments, which include a radiation detector, radar, a laser altimeter, a Russian-built neutron detector that picks up the presence of hydrogen, and an ultraviolet spectrometer that can also sniff out evidence of water. All the instruments are functioning well, scientists said.

Researchers said that in just the last few days, the orbiter has provided fresh information about Earth's nearest neighbor. An instrument called Diviner has measured temperatures in south pole craters that never get sunshine at minus-300 degrees Fahrenheit. That ranks among the coldest temperatures in the solar system, Vondrak said.

The scientists attached to the two companion missions speculate that stores of ice possibly millions of years old could be hidden in these permanently darkened areas.

john.johnson@latimes.com

Copyright © 2009, The Los Angeles Times

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

Remember reading years ago about detection of very small traces of water on the Moon and speculation about the polar caps. (Didn't they find very small traces of water in the lunar rocks when they brought them back anyway?) Seems water is being found everywhere now, well at least very small traces. I think their means of detection is just getting better so its being found more. I seem to recall them even finding water "on" (or "in", or "part of") the Sun. It wasn't in liquid form, of course, (or even steam), but same crazy, highly-energized, plasma form...

I hope this link fits in? If so enjoy :-)

From The Times
September 24, 2009

India’s lunar mission finds evidence of water on the Moon

Dreams of establishing a manned Moon base could become reality within two decades after India’s first lunar mission found evidence of large quantities of water on its surface.

Data from Chandrayaan-1 also suggests that water is still being formed on the Moon. Scientists said the breakthrough — to be announced by Nasa at a press conference today — would change the face of lunar exploration.

The discovery is a significant boost for India in its space race against China. Dr Mylswamy Annadurai, the mission’s project director at the Indian Space Research Organisation in Bangalore, said: “It’s very satisfying.”

The search for water was one of the mission’s main objectives, but it was a surprise nonetheless, scientists said.The unmanned craft was equipped with Nasa’s Moon Mineralogy Mapper, designed specifically to search for water by picking up the electromagnetic radiation emitted by minerals. The M3 also made the unexpected discovery that water may still be forming on the surface of the Moon, according to scientists familiar with the mission.

“It’s very satisfying,” said Dr Mylswamy Annadurai, the project director of Chandrayaan-1 at the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) in Bangalore. “This was one of the main objectives of Chandrayaan-1, to find evidence of water on the Moon,” he told The Times.

Dr Annadurai would not provide any further details before a news conference at Nasa today from Dr Carle Pieters, a planetary geologist of Brown University who oversaw the M3.

Dr Pieters has not spoken about her results so far and was not available for comment last night, according to colleagues at Brown University. But her results are expected to cause a sensation, and to set the agenda for lunar exploration in the next decade.

They will also provide a significant boost for India as it tries to catch up with China in what many see as a 21st-century space race. “This will create a considerable stir. It was wholly unexpected,” said one scientist also involved in Chandrayaan-1. “People thought that Chandrayaan was just lagging behind the rest but the science that’s coming out, it’s going to be agenda-setting.”

Scientists have long hoped that astronauts could be based on the Moon and use water found there to drink, extract oxygen to breathe and use hydrogen as fuel.

Several studies havesuggested that there could be ice in the craters around the Moon’s poles, but scientists have been unable to confirm the suspicions.

The M3, an imaging spectrometer, was designed to search for water by detecting the electromagnetic radiation given off by different minerals on and just below the surface of the Moon. Unlike previous lunar spectrometers, it was sensitive enough to detect the presence of small amounts of water.

M3 was one of two Nasa instruments among 11 pieces of equipment from around the world on Chandrayaan-1, which was launched into orbit around the Moon in October last year. ISRO lost control of Chandrayaan-1 last month, and aborted the mission ahead of schedule, but not before M3 and the other instruments had beamed data back to Earth.

Another lunar scientist familiar with the findings said: “This is the most exciting breakthrough in at least a decade. And it will probably change the face of lunar exploration for the next decade.”

Scientists are eagerly awaiting the results of two American unmanned lunar missions, which were both launched in June, that could also prove the existence of water on the Moon.

Early results from Nasa’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) recorded temperatures as low as -238C (minus 396.4F) in polar craters on the Moon, according to the journal Nature. That makes them the coldest recorded spots in the solar system, even colder than the surface of Pluto, and could mean that ice has been trapped for billions of years, the journal said. The LRO has also detected an abundance of hydrogen, thought to be a key indicator of ice, at the poles.

The other Nasa mission, the Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite (LCROSS), is due to crash a probe into a polar crater on October 9 in the hope of sending up a plume of ice that can be examined by telescope.

“We are on the verge of a renaissance in our thinking about the poles of the Moon, including how water ice gets there,” Anthony Colaprete, principal investigator for LCROSS, said in Nature.

Big bang

• The Moon is 4.6 billion years old, about the same age as the Earth

• It is thought to have formed from a giant dust cloud caused when a rogue planet collided with the Earth

• It is 238,000 miles from the Earth

• Gravity on the Moon is a sixth of that on Earth

The Times

You know the funny thing i just thought to my self, what if the water they are detecting on the moon and mars is actually heavy water ,what are the chances of that happening ,the universe is a very tricky place you know.
Heavy water is water that contains a higher proportion than normal of the isotope deuterium, as deuterium oxide, D2O or ²H2O, or as deuterium protium oxide, HDO or ¹H²HO.[1] Its physical and chemical properties are somewhat similar to those of water, H2O

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

Great new. There is water in the Moon. Thanks, Coco.

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Your welcome, Evil Decepticon.

I don't have the report handy now but looks like there is more than they expected water wise. I always enjoy watching the HC. Water on the moon is no biggie, should be expected. 8-10 ml years ago or longer something crashed into earth making a giant whole or bang. That formed the moon, water makes sense.

I'll be out at 4:30 am (PST) Oct 9 with my scope trained on Cabeus A, weather permitting of course.
I'm not expecting much by way of viewing as my 8" scope may be too small for the task, but I'm hoping to see some of the dust cloud if conditions are perfect.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/05oct_lcrossvg.htm?list101223

is a link to NASA's LCROSS Viewer's Guide webpage.

Martin

NASA to Crash Probe Into Moon to Find Water

A NASA spacecraft will deliberately crash into the Moon early Friday on a mission that could enhance the prospects of establishing a manned lunar base.

Only two weeks after three probes discovered water on the Moon, the Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite (LCROSS) will blast two huge chunks out of its surface to establish whether it exists in a form that could be exploited by astronauts.

In the early hours of Friday, the LCROSS probe will separate from the Centaur upper stage of the rocket that carried it to lunar orbit, and send the spent module crashing into the Cabeus crater at the Moon’s south pole.

When the 2.4-ton Centaur hits at 7:30 a.m. EST, at a speed of 1.6 miles per second, it will throw up a plume of debris 6 miles high.

The LCROSS probe will then fly through the plume and analyze its contents with a battery of sophisticated instruments, before itself crashing into a different spot in the same crater four minutes later, to create a second cloud of dust and rubble.

The impacts, which will be visible from Earth through telescopes with mirrors of at least ten inches, will be studied both from the ground and with lunar orbiters, for traces of water and ice.

October 3, 2009
Moon crash will create six-mile plume of dust as Nasa searches for water

A Nasa spacecraft will deliberately crash into the Moon next week on a mission that could enhance the prospects of establishing a manned lunar base.

Only two weeks after three probes discovered water on the Moon, the Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite (LCROSS) will blast two huge chunks out of its surface to establish whether it exists in a form that could be exploited by astronauts.

In the early hours of Friday morning, the LCROSS probe will separate from the Centaur upper stage of the rocket that carried it to lunar orbit, and send the spent module crashing into the Cabeus crater at the Moon’s south pole.

When the 2.4-tonne Centaur hits at 12.31pm BST, at a speed of 2.5km per second (1.6 miles per sec), it will throw up a plume of debris 10km (6 miles) high.

The LCROSS probe will then fly through the plume and analyse its contents with a battery of sophisticated instruments, before itself crashing into a different spot in the same crater four minutes later, to create a second cloud of dust and rubble.

The impacts, which will be visible from Earth through telescopes with mirrors of at least ten inches, will be studied both from the ground and with lunar orbiters, for traces of water and ice.

The goal is to confirm whether deep craters at the Moon’s poles, which never see the Sun, hold large quantities of water. Such a resource could potentially be tapped by future missions to the Moon for drinking water, oxygen and fuel, improving the outlook for a long-term human presence.

The culmination of the LCROSS mission follows the announcement last week that three probes, including India’s first lunar orbiter, had discovered traces of water all over the Moon’s surface. The water found by the Chandrayaan-1, Deep Impact and Cassini probes, however, is extremely scarce and inaccessible. It appears to exist only in the top millimetre or so of lunar soil regolith, tightly bound to minerals, and would be difficult for astronauts to use.

Large quantities of water at the poles, where hydrogen has been detected by several probes, would be a much more attractive resource for a lunar base. LCROSS should now establish whether or not it exists in at least one polar crater.

“It is an exciting time for water on the Moon,” said Dr Anthony Colaprete, the principal investigator for LCROSS. “Last week was great fun, and hopefully it’s about to get much more fun. You’d have a hard time using what Chandrayaan-1 saw as a resource. If deep craters really do have 1 to 2 per cent hydrogen [as observations suggest], and in water not minerals, that would be much more exploitable.”

As many polar craters are permanently in shadow, they are considered to be potential “cold traps” for water that reaches the Moon through the impact of asteroids and comets. Water of the sort discovered by Chandrayaan-1 could also migrate to these craters, as it sublimates during the hot lunar day and condenses into craters on reaching cold polar regions.

“These cold traps in permanently-shaded craters could have been accumulating water and building up over a billion years or more,” Dr Colaprete said, “That’s what we’re going to excavate and look at.”

The LCROSS impacts will test this hypothesis directly, by raising huge clouds of debris from the bottom of a deep lunar crater of the sort where ice is likely to collect. The Centaur and LCROSS will crash into the Cabeus crater, which is 98km (60 miles) across and of unknown depth: as it is permanently in shadow, this has been impossible to measure.

“The shadows are only so deep, so if you can make an impact that throws eject a few kilometres into the air, it goes from shadow into sunlight,” Dr Colaprete said.

The Centaur impact will leave a crater about 20 metres in diameter, and about 3m to 4m deep. “It’s about the size of a tennis court,” Dr Colaprete said. The explosion will have the energy of at least a tonne of TNT. The impact of LCROSS itself will be about two thirds as large.

NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter probe (LRO), which launched with LCROSS on June 18, will monitor the impacts, as will the Hubble Space Telescope and ground-based telescopes. The impact time was chosen to offer the best possible viewing conditions from the Keck and Subaru observatories in Hawaii.

Nasa this week changed the impact site to Cabeus from the smaller nearby Cabeus A crater, because data from the LRO suggested that the bigger crater contained more hydrogen and was thus more likely to contain ice.

Cabeus was not the first choice because a mountain on its northern side could obscure the view of the debris from Earth-based telescopes.

“We’ve moved to a crater that’s a mixed blessing,” Dr Colaprete said.

“There’s a large hill in front of the impact site, but a deep shadow behind, so there will be less material in view but a higher contrast.

British astronomers will not be able to watch directly, as the impacts will occur in daylight, but large observatories will be able to see the Centaur separate from the LCROSS spacecraft.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,561502,00.html

What time, precisely, LCROSS will hitting the Moon?

I want to watch it happen through NASA TV from my place - Indonesia =)

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N = R x fp x ne x fl x fi x fc x L

What time, precisely, LCROSS will hitting the Moon?

I want to watch it happen through NASA TV from my place - Indonesia =)

From NASA:
The satellite and upper stage both are scheduled to hit a permanently shadowed crater of the moon, four minutes apart, at approximately 4:30 a.m. and 4:34 a.m. PDT on Friday, Oct. 9. NASA Television coverage begins at 3:15 a.m. PDT
PDF is Pacific Daylight Time
Tullio

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What time, precisely, LCROSS will hitting the Moon?

I want to watch it happen through NASA TV from my place - Indonesia =)

From NASA:
The satellite and upper stage both are scheduled to hit a permanently shadowed crater of the moon, four minutes apart, at approximately 4:30 a.m. and 4:34 a.m. PDT on Friday, Oct. 9. NASA Television coverage begins at 3:15 a.m. PDT
PDF is Pacific Daylight Time
Tullio

UTC +/- ?

Right now PDT is 08:33 PM, Oct 08, correct me if I'm wrong?

I got from NASA :

NASA TV Daily Schedule: All Times are Eastern Time Zone

October

October 9, Friday
6:15 a.m. - LCROSS Live Impact Coverage - AMES (Public and Media Channels)
10 a.m. - LCROSS Post-Impact News Conference - AMES (Public and Media Channels)
3 - 3:15 p.m. - Expedition 21/20 Change of Command Ceremony - JSC (Public and Media Channels)

And now Eastern Time Zone is 11:35 PM, Oct 08, correct me if I'm wrong?

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N = R x fp x ne x fl x fi x fc x L

I got this from Master Ned.

The clock is ticking =)

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N = R x fp x ne x fl x fi x fc x L