I would like to known why planets are moving round the sun with an inclinaton angle close to zero eg

MECURY ORBITAL INCLINATION 7 DEGRESS

VENUS 3.4

EARTH 0.0

MARS 1.8

CERES 10.6

JUPITER 1.3

Except for hyakute which is 125 no planet has 180 degrees one would expect that over time there degrees should change but that does not happen ,i know some will say that its because every orbit depends on the other for stability but over time all should together change there inclination if you were to explain it interms of gravity and centripetal force only.

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

I would like to known why planets are moving round the sun with an inclinaton angle close to zero eg

MECURY ORBITAL INCLINATION 7 DEGRESS

VENUS 3.4

EARTH 0.0

MARS 1.8

CERES 10.6

JUPITER 1.3

Except for hyakute which is 125 no planet has 180 degrees one would expect that over time there degrees should change but that does not happen ,i know some will say that its because every orbit depends on the other for stability but over time all should together change there inclination if you were to explain it interms of gravity and centripetal force only.

. . . interestin' Kasule - Very Interestin' - have to go ow - but, maybe i'll get back on this one l8Tr . . . thanks

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BOINC Wiki . . .

Science Status Page . . .

I think most planets aggregated from a disk of material which is a stable configuration deriving from a rotating cloud. You can find this model in a book by Fred Hoyle, "Cosmogony of the solar system", University College Cardiff Press, 1978.
Tullio

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but what keeps that disc stable ,after all the planets are moving and if you tried to simulate that scenario with no extra force in an enviroment like space surely the disk will not stay stable for long and it should start changing the angles of inclination possible proportionatly.

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

I assume the disk isnt stable. Each planet/objects orbit changes over time. Much like the earths wobble the orbits around the sun wobble and I would assume go off the earth/sun plane with solar regularity. Planets, solar systems, galaxies, and the universe are far from stable. we are only looking at a short period of time to compare everything.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Well, in the long term we are all dead. But there are conservation laws, such as the conservation of angular momentum, which is a vector and not only a scalar. Some planets have ring systems around them, like Saturn, whose ring system is investigated by the Cassini mission, and they seem to be pretty stable.
Tullio

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may be thats the answer

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

All stable forms in our universe are spherical in shape and moving in some kind of

orbit, the view these days is that the universe is flat and gaxalies are

accelerating ,suppose all the galaxies with there black holes were actaully

orbiting a massive dark body would we be able to tell that at great distances and

since we are in a plane of motion would it not appear that the universe is flat

because 1) flatnessof universe is not stable 2)galaxies appear in motion.3)most of

the universe is missing

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

The following are sites that show the scientific observation made to support a flat universe to me all show
that the samples taken are not representative of vastness of universe and i have not got any site that measured or tried to measure and compare the velocities of galaxies in the same plane which would be different if all were in some kind of orbit round a distant large object

1) http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s124978.htm

2)http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2000/05/09_maxima.html

3)http://www.science-spirit.org/archive_cm_detail.php?new_id=223

if you have any links please post them


I am not saying the results are wrong let no one misunderstand me they could be true and who am i really to know but its nice to see whats out there ,how people look at things and compare.

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

some evidence that galaxies have a general direction of movement page 3

link http://www.the-origin.org/TheCosmicFlow.pdf

As if dark matter and dark energy weren’t confusing enough, researchers detected what they have
dubbed dark flow while surveying 700 galaxy clusters — each containing hundreds to thousands
of galaxies — within a radius of approximately 1 billion light-years. On average, the clusters
appeared to move in a uniform direction at about 1,000 kilometers per second.
While no one knows the cause of the motion, the scientists suggest that whatever it is may no
longer lie within the visible universe. The work appears online in two separate papers, one to
appear in the Oct. 20 Astrophysical Journal Letters and the other in an upcoming Astrophysical
Journal.
“We expected to find something completely different,” says Alexander Kashlinsky, an
astrophysicist at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. "It’s basically a slope
across the universe,” in a direction somewhere between the constellations of Centaurus and Vela.
The result flies in the face of one of cosmologists’ most cherished assumptions — backed by a
vast wealth of data — that the universe is uniform. That is, its structure and the density of matter
in it are about the same in all regions of the sky.
But the findings further complicate the picture of cosmology, comments cosmologist Glenn
Starkman of Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland. The new results add to anomalies
discovered in recent years in the cosmic microwave background, or CMB, the ubiquitous bath of
cold radiation left over from the Big Bang. “It’s yet another piece of evidence that, on the largest
scales, either we’re misunderstanding something or discovering something about the universe,”
Starkman says.

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

Well, in the long term we are all dead. But there are conservation laws, such as the conservation of angular momentum, which is a vector and not only a scalar. Some planets have ring systems around them, like Saturn, whose ring system is investigated by the Cassini mission, and they seem to be pretty stable.
Tullio

Win.


Yes, the aggregated disk from which the solar system's planets formed is and has been stable over billions of years due to simple laws of physics.

This has been confirmed by every other multi-planet exosolar system we have found to date in which planets large enough to be detected orbit their host star in a similar angular inclination.

There prediction that the world should end on dec 21 2012 ,according to doomsays these event will happen because of a un known planet in the kupier belt that will reenter the solar system in 2012 and cause gravitational havoc . How true is that? does anyone know about these planet x could it in did be on collision course with earth some say the gravitational effects are already being felt.

this is what they say.

Written by Ian O'Neill

Did the Mayans REALLY predict a doomsday event?
Apparently, the world is going to end on December 21st, 2012. Yes, you read correctly, in some way, shape or form, the Earth (or at least a large portion of humans on the planet) will cease to exist. Stop planning your careers, don't bother buying a house, and be sure to spend the last years of your life doing something you always wanted to do but never had the time. Now you have the time, four years of time, to enjoy yourselves before… the end.

So what is all this crazy talk? We've all heard these doomsday predictions before, we're still here, and the planet is still here, why is 2012 so important? Well, the Mayan calendar stops at the end of the year 2012, churning up all sorts of religious, scientific, astrological and historic reasons why this calendar foretells the end of life as we know it. The Mayan Prophecy is gaining strength and appears to be worrying people in all areas of society. Forget Nostradamus, forget the Y2K bug, forget the credit crunch, this event is predicted to be huge and many wholeheartedly believe this is going to happen for real. Planet X could even be making a comeback.

This Japanese research predicts a large object, 30-70% the mass of the Earth, orbiting at a distance of around 100-200 AU from the Sun. This object may also help explain why some KBOs and tran-Neptunian objects (TNOs) have some strange orbital characteristics (such as Sedna).

Ever since Pluto was discovered in 1930, astronomers have been looking for another more massive body that could explain the orbital perturbations observed in the orbits of Neptune and Uranus. This search became known as the "search for Planet X", which literally meant the "search for an as yet unidentified planet." In the 1980's these perturbations were put down to observational error. Therefore, the modern-day scientific search for Planet X is the search for a large KBO or a minor planet beyond. Although Planet X may not be larger than the mass of the Earth, researchers are still very excited about finding more KBOs, possibly the size of a Plutoid, possibly a little bigger, but not much bigger

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

Here is a post that I made in another forum a few months ago. It is based on actual physics and not on magical/mystical thinking as is most evident in these threads.

The End Of The World

IMHO reality is depressing enough without inventing doomsday planets or Nemesis stars.

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Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas.

Albert Einstein

Maybe planets, dust clouds around stars, etc, remain more or less in a plane for the same reason that Saturns rings remain in a plane and not a sphere. Maybe it has to do with the gravitational interaction among those particles. but that is just a guess.

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Maybe planets, dust clouds around stars, etc, remain more or less in a plane for the same reason that Saturns rings remain in a plane and not a sphere. Maybe it has to do with the gravitational interaction among those particles. but that is just a guess.

It depends on the conservation of angular momentum for isolated systems, that is on a basic physical law.
Tullio

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but what keeps that disc stable ,after all the planets are moving and if you tried to simulate that scenario with no extra force in an enviroment like space surely the disk will not stay stable for long and it should start changing the angles of inclination possible proportionatly.

Why do you need a force to keep it stable? The disc was stable originally, and the planets formed under a set of laws that caused them to be stable at that time (which they must have or no planets would ever form to begin with) then only an outside influence would destabilize it. For instance, a mass large enough to change orbital patterns that did not form with the original solar system. Now, for something like Jupiter that would have to be large.

The inclinations you list are obviously relative to Earth (since Earth is at zero and any line is arbitrary). What you would expect is that the larger the planet, the less it would have drifted (because the larger the mass would have to be to cause it's orbit to shift). It seems like your numbers there support that pretty well.

Plus, if there is a little "wobble" in the planes of orbit, why should it be cumulative? Clearly there are systems one can imagine where wobbles get progressively worse until the system collapses, but there are also systems possible where wobbles are corrected by the influence of other bodies in the solar system. For instance, as Mars tries to wobble out of the plane of orbit, Jupiter's much larger mass keeps it in line.

I don't have any math to back it up, but it seems to me that so long as the system forms correctly, it can self-regulate. I have to assume our system is one of those, being that it's survived long enough for us to evolve. I imagine less stable systems never evolve life. Therefore, why should we be surprised that our system happens to be one of the stable ones?

space x

Yesterday (Jan. 10th) was a huge day for SpaceX. For the first time ever, one of their rockets (the mighty Falcon 9) was hoisted vertically in preparation for the Falcon 9 maiden launch (presumably) in the next few weeks. No launch window has been announced as yet, but I am sure SpaceX will be working hard to ignite the nine Merlin-1C engines as soon as possible.

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

Russia Proposes Mission to Search for Evidence of Astroengineering


January 19th, 2009
Russia Proposes Mission to Search for Evidence of Astroengineering

Written by Ian O'Neill

It is probably the most seductive urge for mankind: search for extraterrestrial life. There are many ways to look for life; from digging into the Martian dirt with robotic landers looking for pre-biotic compounds, to building vast radio antennae to "listen" out for distant communications either leaked or transmitted deliberately from a distant star system from a developed, intelligent civilization. However, despite our best efforts, we appear to be the only form of life for hundreds of lightyears around. It is eerily quiet out there…

Although we appear to be drawing blanks so far, it doesn't stop us from trying to work out what we should be looking for. In the quest to find a vastly advanced alien civilization, a forthcoming Russian space telescope hopes to bridge the gap between science fiction and science fact, attempting to find evidence (or lack thereof) of observable attempts of astroengineering by an alien race…

New and exciting ways are being formulated to work out whether intelligent life does exist beyond our blue oasis. Programs such as the famous Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI), Messaging to Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (METI) and the tongue-in-cheek Wait for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (WETI) are conceived to somehow interact with a sufficiently advanced alien culture (one that has the ability to communicate via radio, at least). In an engrossing entry I read in last week's Carnival of Space Week 86, Dr Bruce Cordell (21st Century Waves) discussed the apparent paradox between UFOs and Fermi's Paradox (in a nutshell: if aliens have visited our planet, as UFO sightings would lead us to believe, why haven't we intercepted any kind of signal via SETI?). I was most interested with Cordell's thoughts on optical communications that could be used by extraterrestrials to communicate with a pre-radio communication human era. Apparently, in 40 years, mankind could be generating very bright signals using 30 terrawatt optical beacons for pre-radio civilizations to see over 10 light years away, brighter than their brightest star. If there are advanced civilizations out there, why have we not seen their optical transmissions?

To summarize, we are a little confused by the lack of life in our Universe (intelligent life in any case).

So, perhaps we can find other ways to spy on our hypothetical alien neighbours. Could we build a powerful telescope to seek out structures built by alien civilizations? Possibly, according to a forthcoming Russian space-based telescope project: The Millimetron Space Telescope.

On reading an article about this subject on the Daily Galaxy, I thought I'd heard of something like this before. Sure enough, during my research on the Infrared Astronomical Satellite, IRAS (surrounding the whole Planet X controversy), I found out that work was being done to try to find the infrared signature of the hypothetical Dyson Sphere. The Dyson Sphere is a theorised example of an astroengineered structure by a significantly advanced alien race. There are many variations on this theme, including science fiction ideas of an engineered "ring" straddling a host star (as pictured top). In the case of the Dyson Sphere, this megastructure would generate infrared radiation, and analysis of IRAS data has been done to establish an upper limit on the existence of these objects. So far, no Dyson Sphere candidates have been found (within 300 light-years from Earth in any case).

To build on the IRAS survey, in 2017, Russia hopes to launch the Millimetron to observe distant stellar systems in millimeter, sub-millimeter and infrared wavelengths. This instrument has a long list of aims, but one of the extreme results that could come from this project is the detection of astroengineered megastructures.

The goal of the project is to construct space observatory operating in millimeter, sub-millimeter and infrared wavelength ranges using 12-m cryogenic telescope in a single-dish mode and as an interferometer with the space-ground and space-space baselines (the later after the launch of the second identical space telescope). The observatory will provide possibility to conduct astronomical observations with super high sensitivity (down to nanoJansky level) in a single dish mode, and observations with super high angular resolution in an interferometric mode. - The Millimetron Project.

By combining the orbiting telescope with observatories on the ground, it may be possible to create a very long baseline interferometer (VLBI) with huge baselines beyond 300,000km. This will provide unprecedented angular resolution. Alone, the large 12 metre dish will allow astronomers to probe emissions at the nano-Jansky level, where radio astronomers usually operate from <1-100 Janskys (the Jansky is a non-SI measurement of electromagnetic flux density).* With a system like this, very weakly radiating sources may be detected, possibly revealing structures such as the Dyson Sphere, or possibly sci-fi concepts like Larry Niven's "Ringworld".

Although I am dubious as to whether our persistent efforts to find intelligent extraterrestrial life will ever turn up positive, the search is exciting and certainly boosts the scientific process in directions we wouldn't have necessarily examined…

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

On Saturday, very little was known about the mammoth payload a Delta IV Heavy was carrying into space. Launching from Florida's Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, the 70 metre-high rocket blasted into the atmosphere with a mystery satellite known only as the NROL-26 mission. As the acronym suggests, the mission was carrying a National Reconnaissance Office satellite. However, a little after T+7 minutes 40 seconds, shortly after the second stage engines had fired, a media blackout prevented the world from knowing where the payload was going.

Four days on from this secretive rocket launch, what do we know about NROL-26?

The Delta IV Heavy is part of Boeing's Integrated Defense Systems division Delta IV rocket family. This monster of a launch vehicle can deliver 1.9 million pounds of thrust, carrying large payloads to geosynchronous orbit, some 22,300 miles (36,000 km) above the Earth's surface. The Delta IV was designed with military and commercial payloads in mind.

Watching the video of Saturday's launch, one cant help but be in awe of this rocket system. The Delta IV Heavy carried out its second fully successful flight on that day (the Delta IV Heavy first demonstration flight failed to reach the correct orbit in 2004), placing the most expensive (and most clandestine) military spacecraft into orbit. Naturally, details are rather sketchy about what the spacecraft actually is and what it is going to do, but some estimates put the total cost of the rocket plus payload at over $2 billion, so it is obviously a very important mission.

Once NROL-26 successfully reached its destination (wherever that may be), the satellite was renamed "USA 202". We can say with some certainty that USA 202 is an advanced spy satellite of some description. According to one source, the intent of USA 202 is to act as the next generation in orbital eavesdropping technology, deploying an antenna possibly as wide as 350 feet.

According to GlobalSecurity.org (a military think-tank), USA 202 could be of an "Advanced Mentor" design. Older versions are believed to have been launched by the National Reconnaissance Office and the Central Intelligence Agency under the code name "MENTOR" from 1995 to 2003. These satellites, in geostationary orbits, collect ground-based radio emissions using very large antennae (some as wide as 100 metres). They are also thought to be very big satellites, weighing in at over five tonnes. Like USA 202, these older satellites are highly classified and there is no official word confirming or denying any of the specifications.

Last weekend's successful Delta IV Heavy launch will come as a relief to the security services operating the top secret satellite as launches have fallen behind schedule through failures and technical challenges. These spy satellites are critical to the White House and Pentagon, as the information gathered by USA 202 aid military decisions and shape foreign policy. In this case, it is thought Saturday's Delta IV Heavy launch will enhance the ability to intercept communications from rogue states and terrorist organizations around the planet.

Let's hope USA 202 remains operational for its designated lifespan, as we know what happens to spy satellites that don't behave…

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

This question goes to any body who is knowlegable about the subject.

Since all galaxies revolve around black holes , and our planets revolve around our sun , I was wondering if there is a mathimatical ratio between the mass at the centre and the mass that orbits it. take for example the mass of the sun to the mass of all the planets and moons orbiting it, or the mass of the black hole at the centre of our galaxy to the mass of everything held in place around it, or the mass of other black holes in other galaxies to the mass around them. I believe
that the ratio is with in the range of 95 : 5 i.e the mass at the centre should always be about 95 percente to the mass orbiting it. If thats true then our universe indeed has a centre around which all the galaxies and there black holes
are moving in an elipitical orbit. Thus any one out there know if there is such a mathimatical ratio.

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy