T Boone Pickens: GAS, GASBAGS or Boone-Doggles??

Author	Message
William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4	Message 803308 - Posted: 30 Aug 2008, 2:17:04 UTC Howdy, What do you all think of T. Boone Pickens' thrust to run cars on Natural Gas. Give it some deep thought and share your opinions--I'll save my comments until I see what y'all think. ID: 803308 ·

tullio Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 9 Apr 04 Posts: 8797 Credit: 2,930,782 RAC: 1	Message 803329 - Posted: 30 Aug 2008, 4:29:49 UTC - in response to Message 803308. Last modified: 30 Aug 2008, 4:30:37 UTC Howdy, What do you all think of T. Boone Pickens' thrust to run cars on Natural Gas. Give it some deep thought and share your opinions--I'll save my comments until I see what y'all think. In Italy you can buy cars with two fuels, either methane and gasoline or GPL (liquid gas) and gasoline. The problem is that fewer service stations can supply them, especially in Southern Italy, but GPL is very popular although it is a great danger in the event of a crash. Methane containers are heavier and more robust. Tullio ID: 803329 ·

ML1 Volunteer moderator Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21678 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20	Message 803405 - Posted: 30 Aug 2008, 14:25:03 UTC - in response to Message 803308. What do you all think of T. Boone Pickens' thrust to run cars on Natural Gas. ... So who's T. Boone Pickens? Natural Gas is a fossil fuel, so it will add non-recycled CO2 into the atmosphere to add to the greenhouse warming effect. The fuel tank will need to be heavier to store the pressurised (liquid?) gas. So what's the claimed advantage? Cheers, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 803405 ·

tullio Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 9 Apr 04 Posts: 8797 Credit: 2,930,782 RAC: 1	Message 803407 - Posted: 30 Aug 2008, 14:38:46 UTC - in response to Message 803405. What do you all think of T. Boone Pickens' thrust to run cars on Natural Gas. ... So who's T. Boone Pickens? Natural Gas is a fossil fuel, so it will add non-recycled CO2 into the atmosphere to add to the greenhouse warming effect. The fuel tank will need to be heavier to store the pressurised (liquid?) gas. So what's the claimed advantage? Cheers, Martin Methane fueled and GPL fueled cars are allowed to circulate in Italy even when gasoline and Diesel powered cars are stopped because of atmospheric pollution, especially in winter in Milano, where I live. So are hybrid cars, which are gaining popularity here. The authorities maintain they cause less atmospheric pollution. Tullio ID: 803407 ·

William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4	Message 803411 - Posted: 30 Aug 2008, 14:55:47 UTC - in response to Message 803405. What do you all think of T. Boone Pickens' thrust to run cars on Natural Gas. ... So who's T. Boone Pickens? Natural Gas is a fossil fuel, so it will add non-recycled CO2 into the atmosphere to add to the greenhouse warming effect. The fuel tank will need to be heavier to store the pressurised (liquid?) gas. So what's the claimed advantage? Cheers, Martin ID: 803411 ·

William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4	Message 803413 - Posted: 30 Aug 2008, 15:11:51 UTC - in response to Message 803411. Last modified: 30 Aug 2008, 15:20:47 UTC What do you all think of T. Boone Pickens' thrust to run cars on Natural Gas. ... So who's T. Boone Pickens? Natural Gas is a fossil fuel, so it will add non-recycled CO2 into the atmosphere to add to the greenhouse warming effect. The fuel tank will need to be heavier to store the pressurised (liquid?) gas. So what's the claimed advantage? Cheers, Martin T Boone is an Oil Man whom I suspect holds massive Gas Leases and rights. He says that we can replace the Natural gas used for power plants with wind and solar and use the Natural Gas to power our cars until an alternate fuel can be developed --either from coal or Hydrogen I suppose. We now use Natural Gas for about 25% of our energy supply--it's availability has only grown about 1% per year --I believe that much of the Gas is being held off the market to await higher prices--Gas has gone from 70 cents a therm (100,000 BTU's) to more than $1.30 here in Tennessee. I presume that most of this gas is used for home heating in the winter. I don't know how much produces power --I presume very little. My Brother leases gas wells to an energy company on his Pennsylvania Farm --They run these at very low production --just enough to legally keep them open. Now a new find has been discovered down another 2000 feet --said to be huge--they can use the same wells to tap this new field. If gasoline demand were to shift to natural Gas then I am sure that the price of Natural gas would skyrocket just like gasoline did as well--especially since supply is controlled very carefully right now. So this would probably be just like Ethanol doubling the price of food and tripling the price of food grains. We probably couldn't afford to heat our homes. Just my ideas --What do You think? I think that a diversion to Natural Gas for automobiles would not be wise at this time--We would have to change our distribution system as well as our cars. I claim that the distribution system for electric commuter vehicles is already in place--it's interface is that plug in your Garage. Rather than use Government dollars and research to subsidize wind and solar we should put all our effort into providing cheaper electricity and on Lithium-ion battery technology and low-cost manufacture of the same. The more I think about these situations the more I come to the realization that electric power produced from Nuclear Plants will be the solution to many of these dilemmas. Coal may fill a short term gap but china's demands on Coal may drive up these costs as well. Regards, Bill ID: 803413 ·

William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4	Message 803487 - Posted: 30 Aug 2008, 21:13:58 UTC Well--I stand to correct myself. Natural gas is used for about one third as much electrical energy production as is coal. About 20% or so of all electricity in the US is produced by natural gas. Most new plants have been Natural gas-Combined steam cycle plants. So right now it appears to generate as much as nuclear if I am reading the graphs correctly. Gas does produce 30% (or greater) fewer CO-2 emissions than coal and oil. ID: 803487 ·

William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4	Message 803636 - Posted: 31 Aug 2008, 10:27:28 UTC Last modified: 31 Aug 2008, 10:27:47 UTC More on T Boone Pickens: He has formed the Capital Commodity and Capital Equity Funds, both of which invest primarily in oil and natural gas. (Wikipedia). He also owns a series of Natural Gas Fueling stations. Pickens is also buying up water rights in Texas and has contributed large sums to charity. ID: 803636 ·

jim little Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 112 Credit: 915,934 RAC: 0	Message 803799 - Posted: 31 Aug 2008, 20:30:52 UTC It seems that Mr. Pickens is a late comer on the green energy scene. Personally our family has been investing in several power companies that are building wind farms all over the US. And this started almost twenty years ago. Mr. Buffett is in the wind energy in a small scale (compared to this total holdings). Denmark gets a very significant portion of electric energy from wind, and is a big factor in building good windmills. NW Germany has a lot of wind power generation, and in Holland they have been pumping water for almost a thousand years using wind. Spain generates a very significant portion of energy by wind. In the DC area one can buy power from wind generation in West Virginia. Others are under way in western Virginia. It is ironic that the really big developer of wind power is based in Florida, which is a rather poor state for steady wind. Their farms are all over the US and sell energy locally for money that trickles down to the share owners. Of course the proposed south of Cape Cod wind mills are seeing problems with those million plus fortune owners who want to sail without those unsightly towers in the bay. Ironic isn't it? My modest investments are not going to make me worth tens of millions or more, but those utilities I chose for our portfolio do make significant contributions to green energy! We also save by using bikes for many local destinations. And we got a Prius with a tax credit. Now it is 2.8 years old and is a real fuel saver. At a stop light the engine is zero rpm, and the same amount of fuel used. And most of the kinetic energy slowing to a stop is recovered into the big battery. With sensible driving the brake pads should last almost the life of the car. Being retired we no longer have to commute. While working we rode bikes about 7.5 miles each way. Got fuel saving by burning fat we didn't need. We still use them as above. We have taken our bikes on many trips and have ridden them in three corners of the continental US. Our fuel use in heating our house is about 35% of the original consumption when we bought the house in the sixties. Then oil was a bit over 15 cents a gallon. Insulation, thermal windows, setback thermostats all contribute. And much at modest cost. At present pricest, the setback thermostat is about the cost of abut ten gallons of fuel oil or less. Saving during the summer is in electric bill.. We keep the house at 80F and this is quite comfortable when light clothing is worn. When outside is less than about 75 F we can use the exhaust fan to use natural air cooling. Winter temperature setting is 68 F. So part of the reduction of motor fuel use, heating ones house and electric consumption is on the backs (or bill fold) of the consumer. We doing our part. Are you? duke ID: 803799 ·

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