Has anyone looked at the cost of replacement batteries? The last quote I heard was in the $8,000 range. If you consider the life of the battery used in the hybrids which is roughly 150,000 miles or 241,401 kilometers, there is not much savings going on there. The cost for replacement works out to be $18.75 per mile.

By my math it works out to 5.33 cents per mile.

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The cost for replacement works out to be $18.75 per mile.

By my math it works out to 5.33 cents per mile.

Someone needs to replace the battery in their calculator... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

The cost for replacement works out to be $18.75 per mile.

By my math it works out to 5.33 cents per mile.

Someone needs to replace the battery in their calculator... ;)

$8,000.00 / 150,000 miles is $0.0533 / mile, or 5.33 cents / mile.

The first person calculated 150,000 miles / $8,000 = 18.75 miles per dollar.

Getting the units right is important.

[edit]

Once the full system is installed including the solar or wind electrical generation source, the hydrogen would indeed be nearly free. However, there is a substantial capital cost in the modifications to the car and the installation of the solar / wind power source. There are still places where the hydrogen generator is going to have to be plugged into the grid. It will still probably cost less / mile than buying gasoline, but in the case where it has to be plugged into the grid, it will not be nearly as cheap.

No matter what fuel is used in the Internal Combustion Engine having an energy storage system that can collect the energy released by stopping the car (or going down hill) and getting that energy back to the wheels is going to reduce the total amount of energy used by the vehicle. This can be done is several ways including batteries, flywheel, capacitors, and compressed gas. The requirements are that it be able to collect and store energy quickly.

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BOINC WIKI

Yet no one looks at the data, no matter what reason is given for needing alt's.

GM makes this car --right?

They are most certainly looking at the data--And-the data must tell them that this car is not an answer to energy independence right now. This is probably due to excessively high costs to produce this vehicle and of very limited availability of hydrogen fill-up stations-especially outside of the Los Angeles area. This could change but I think that electric cars with batteries and a small engine to take over when the range is exceeded will win out over hydrogen. Sort of like the Chevy "Volt" only at lower cost and greater range than the Volt.

Forget batteries:

http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/h2.htm

No sir --you see the infrastructure to deliver the energy source for electric cars is already in place. There is adequate spare capacity at night to recharge everyones car--also conversion to electric would take a decade or so time enough to add nuclear power to keep green, cheap energy available at the plug.

hydrogen requires a total redo of the fuel delivery infrastructure while all the energy you need is at the place where you plug in --may require a 220 volt dryer or stove type connection in your garage --maybe just a standard plug.

Yet no one looks at the data, no matter what reason is given for needing alt's.

GM makes this car --right?

They are most certainly looking at the data--And-the data must tell them that this car is not an answer to energy independence right now. This is probably due to excessively high costs to produce this vehicle and of very limited availability of hydrogen fill-up stations-especially outside of the Los Angeles area. This could change but I think that electric cars with batteries and a small engine to take over when the range is exceeded will win out over hydrogen. Sort of like the Chevy "Volt" only at lower cost and greater range than the Volt.

Forget batteries:

http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/h2.htm

No sir --you see the infrastructure to deliver the energy source for electric cars is already in place. There is adequate spare capacity at night to recharge everyones car--also conversion to electric would take a decade or so time enough to add nuclear power to keep green, cheap energy available at the plug.

hydrogen requires a total redo of the fuel delivery infrastructure while all the energy you need is at the place where you plug in --may require a 220 volt dryer or stove type connection in your garage --maybe just a standard plug.

You make the hydrogen at home with the designs on the website I linked to, thus eliminating a big infrastructure redo, as well as being able to use the wind and/or solar energy in other ways, at your home.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Mr Gray Wrote:

You make the hydrogen at home with the designs on the website I linked to, thus eliminating a big infrastructure redo, as well as being able to use the wind and/or solar energy in other ways, at your home.[/quote]

My reply:

great ! where do I buy the equipment and where do I buy the car.

How much do they cost and how do I store the hydrogen ?

Regards,

Daddio

Mr Gray Wrote:

You make the hydrogen at home with the designs on the website I linked to, thus eliminating a big infrastructure redo, as well as being able to use the wind and/or solar energy in other ways, at your home.

My reply:

great ! where do I buy the equipment and where do I buy the car.

How much do they cost and how do I store the hydrogen ?

Regards,

Daddio

Click the link!

The system installs on your existing car, as long as it's not diesel.

Email the company!

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Mr Gray Wrote:

You make the hydrogen at home with the designs on the website I linked to, thus eliminating a big infrastructure redo, as well as being able to use the wind and/or solar energy in other ways, at your home.

My reply:

great ! where do I buy the equipment and where do I buy the car.

How much do they cost and how do I store the hydrogen ?

Regards,

Daddio

Right from the website:

Note: Please do not call us for additional information.
All information currently available - is on this website -
We know there are a lot of customers anxiously awaiting the release of our Hydrogen Fuel System kits. Our products are still in development - when they are ready for final production & sale, that information will be immediately posted here.
We are currently working with our prototype equipment & gathering data.
We will not be in a position to discuss technical specifications, distributorships, component or kit prices, estimated sales dates, etc. until we're up & running and in production at our new facility.

Thank you, but we do not need additional prototype vehicles,
and we do not accept outside funding.
===================================================================

In other words... You can't buy it yet at any price.

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Happy to see someone at least working on it and having one on the road,

Here I was angry people weren't reading the site and then I miss a portion myself.

:D

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Wow. Go away for the weekend and come back to see my little post of a Jay Leno video is going to town. I like it when people talk back and forth about events that effect all of us. Discussion is very good for everyone.

I have to admit that I have wondered how much Hydrogen one could make with 500 watts of solar power running everyday. Do I think I could make all that I would need ... no. But it is still interesting. And maybe home made power is dumb, unrealistic and dangerous. Who knows. Not me.

As long as we keep talking and trying different things we will find the answer. My fear is that gas prices will go back down and we will quit looking.

Chris.

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Nikola Tesla's Pierce-Arrow Automobile

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Nice,

Thanks Dominique

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

People are worried about the miniscule amount of energy sent by a cell phone, and leaked by high tension transmission towers. Just think how much ElectroMagnetic energy floating around.

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BOINC WIKI

Has anyone looked at the cost of replacement batteries? The last quote I heard was in the $8,000 range. If you consider the life of the battery used in the hybrids which is roughly 150,000 miles or 241,401 kilometers, there is not much savings going on there. The cost for replacement works out to be $18.75 per mile.

By my math it works out to 5.33 cents per mile.

I am sorry Dominique, you are right. I divided the wrong direction.

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What you do today you will have to live with tonight

Tesla believed there was enough electrical energy generated by our planet to power everything for free. Corporate America didn't like that at all.


.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

People are worried about the miniscule amount of energy sent by a cell phone

I'm more worried about the hot air coming out of the callers pie hole... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Wow. Go away for the weekend and come back to see my little post of a Jay Leno video is going to town. I like it when people talk back and forth about events that effect all of us. Discussion is very good for everyone.

I have to admit that I have wondered how much Hydrogen one could make with 500 watts of solar power running everyday. Do I think I could make all that I would need ... no. But it is still interesting. And maybe home made power is dumb, unrealistic and dangerous. Who knows. Not me.

As long as we keep talking and trying different things we will find the answer. My fear is that gas prices will go back down and we will quit looking.

Chris.

You need 5 kWh to make 1 cubic meter of hydrogen at standard conditions of pressure and temperature. Then you have to contain it in a suitable pressure vessel.
Tullio

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You need 5 kWh to make 1 cubic meter of hydrogen at standard conditions of pressure and temperature. Then you have to contain it in a suitable pressure vessel.
Tullio

Hi Tullio,

How much energy and chemicals and transportation energy does it take to make a gallon of gasoline? And how much energy to produce the chemicals used to make gasoline?

Thank you

How much energy is required to produce hydrogen via electrolysis of water?
The energy required to produce hydrogen at atmospheric pressure via electrolysis (assuming 1.23 V) is about 32.9 kWh/kg. A kilogram is about 2.2 lb. For 1 mole (2 g) of hydrogen the energy is about 0.0660 kWh/mole. Compressing or liquefying the hydrogen would take additional energy. One company produces hydrogen through electrolysis at about 7,000psi at an energy usage of about 60kWh/kg H (2).

Because a Watt is Voltage x Current, this is equivalent to Power x Rate x Time. The power in this case is the voltage required to split water into hydrogen and oxygen (1.23 V at 25?C). The rate is the current flow and relates directly to how fast hydrogen is produced. Time, of course, is how long the reaction runs. It turns out that voltage and current flow are interrelated. To run the water splitting reaction at a higher rate (generating more hydrogen in a given time), more voltage must be applied (similar to pushing down on the accelerator of a car; more gas is used to make the car go faster.) For commercial electrolysis systems that operate at about 1 A/cm2, a voltage of 1.75 V is required. This translates into about 46.8 kW-hr/kg, which corresponds to an energy efficiency of 70%.

Lowering the voltage for electrolysis, which will increase the energy efficiency of the process, is an important area for research.

Sources
U.S. Department of Energy
National Hydrogen Association

.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Hi Tullio,

How much energy and chemicals and transportation energy does it take to make a gallon of gasoline? And how much energy to produce the chemicals used to make gasoline?

Thank you

I don't know. I pay 1.57 euro a liter of gasoline. Two thirds of this price is a state tax. Evidently ESSO, Shell, Agip etc. make a profit selling gasoline at 0.50 euro/liter, otherwise they would not make it. Since the cost of industrial electricity in Italy is the highest in Europe, because it is mostly of thermoelectric origin with methane as a fuel, I believe it does not cost much, in energy terms, to produce gasoline. AFAIK, photovoltaic electricity in Italy costs about ten times more that the current price. It is all dimes and dollars, like Arthur Miller writes in his "All my sons" play. Cheers.
Tullio

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Hi Tullio,

How much energy and chemicals and transportation energy does it take to make a gallon of gasoline? And how much energy to produce the chemicals used to make gasoline?

Thank you

I don't know. I pay 1.57 euro a liter of gasoline. Two thirds of this price is a state tax. Evidently ESSO, Shell, Agip etc. make a profit selling gasoline at 0.50 euro/liter, otherwise they would not make it. Since the cost of industrial electricity in Italy is the highest in Europe, because it is mostly of thermoelectric origin with methane as a fuel, I believe it does not cost much, in energy terms, to produce gasoline. AFAIK, photovoltaic electricity in Italy costs about ten times more that the current price. It is all dimes and dollars, like Arthur Miller writes in his "All my sons" play. Cheers.
Tullio

Interesting Tullio,

Thank you!

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss