Not lies - may be mistakes.
But I made the experience that in 80% of all cases the official media were bending informations to fit in the opinions of the government or the parties they support. Okay may be I should try more to find out the unbent 20% but this is sometimes difficult. When 10 sources which are "official media" tell you it was like "this", and an eleventh source which is independent tells it was (slightly) otherwise, what would you believe? How to find out the truth? Then I search for another independent source, and if source #12 tells me the same like source #11, I rather take these two as true, and not the other ten sources closer to the view of the government.

How about you just stop being critical of our actions when you KNOW there is at least a 20% chance that you are 100% wrong?

Good question but I can be citical because of the Freedom of Speech.
But as a good critic, I don't only say "Oh that was so bad" but also say, "I'd suggest this how to make it better..."
And I use informations of people who live in the States. And of organizations in the States.
The question is still who spreads propaganda: the official media, or the independent media? But this is rather a rhetorical question.

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Good question but I can be citical because of the Freedom of Speech.
But as a good critic, I don't only say "Oh that was so bad" but also say, "I'd suggest this how to make it better..."

What good is a suggestion that's based on inaccurate information and outright lies?

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Good question but I can be citical because of the Freedom of Speech.
But as a good critic, I don't only say "Oh that was so bad" but also say, "I'd suggest this how to make it better..."

What good is a suggestion that's based on inaccurate information and outright lies?

Ask the DoD which makes suggestions to the President, if the informations they give him are always 100% accurate or rather bent because of several lobbyist interests.
Ask the brokers at the Stock Exchange whether or not they use only 100% accurate informations.
Ask the journalists whether or not their reports are 100% fact or changed because of party/corporation interests.
And after that, ask me again why I rather rely on independent informations.

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So what you are saying is that you really don't care if the information you base your opinion on is true or even remotely accurate.

Still wonder why most Americans don't care what foreigners think?

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So what you are saying is that you really don't care if the information you base your opinion on is true or even remotely accurate.

Still wonder why most Americans don't care what foreigners think?

I actually I do care. I always try to find out the truth, but this is not easy when you can only use subjective views.
But when I try to find out about Iraq I also use informations from soldiers who've been there and who went through all that. Or from people who lost their brothers/sisters/sons/daughters/spouses there. Almost everyone of them - even members of families who have been proud before to be traditional soldier's families - are saying, if they could turn back time, they wouldn't go there themselves or would prevent their family members to go there.
Do they lie or spread inaccurate facts?

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I actually I do care. I always try to find out the truth, but this is not easy when you can only use subjective views.
But when I try to find out about Iraq I use informations by soldiers who've been there and who went through all that. Or people who lost their brothers/sisters/sons/daughters/spouses there. Almost everyone of them - even members of families who have been proud before to be traditional soldier's families - are saying, if they could turn back time, they wouldn't go there themselves or would prevent their family members to go there.

Are you are surprised that those who have lost loved ones would do things differently if given a second chance? Hey, I'm sure Hitler and the Nazi's would have done things differently if they were able to turn back time. I'm sure the victims of 9/11 would have stayed home that day if they had a second chance. I'm sure Saddam would even abide by the terms of the treaty he signed if he had a second chance too.

None of that negates the fact that you base your opinions on inaccurate information and out right lies, not because you want/try to find the truth, but because those lies and half-truths reflect the opinions you want to hear...and that's not based on lies or inaccurate information, but rather on the content of every single one of your posts on this thread.




...and you compare your actions to those of the DoD?!?!? Since when do your opinions directly affect the life or death of millions of Americans? You compare your actions to those of the stock Exchange?!?!?! Since when do your decisions make the difference between making or losing billions of dollars?

I reiterate, you don't care about the truth and the more I discuss the issue with you, the more I am convinced of that fact.

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None of that negates the fact that you base your opinions on inaccurate information and out right lies, not because you want/try to find the truth, but because those lies and half-truths reflect the opinions you want to hear...and that's not based on lies or inaccurate information, but rather on the content of every single one of your posts on this thread.




...and you compare your actions to those of the DoD?!?!? Since when do your opinions directly affect the life or death of millions of Americans? You compare your actions to those of the stock Exchange?!?!?! Since when do your decisions make the difference between making or losing billions of dollars?

I reiterate, you don't care about the truth and the more I discuss the issue with you, the more I am convinced of that fact.

Even though my opinions don't affect lifes I care much about truth. That's why I look for truth everywhere I can get it.
But the more those whose action do affect lifes should even more care about truth. In my opinion, each broker, each journalist, each one who counsels politicians - every person who gives information away which can affect lifes or wealth of people, should be made reliable for them like witnesses at a Court-yard, "to tell the truth and nothing but the truth".

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Remembering sacrifice at Christmas

Dan K. Thomasson
SCRIPPS HOWARD NEWS SERVICE

December 25, 2006

Christmas is never more difficult or emotional than during wartime when the fate of many loved ones hangs like a lonely, forlorn ornament on a tree whose branches are shaken daily by violence. It is at this time that we who do not have to experience the ceaseless worry of having a son or daughter or husband or wife in harm's way should not only recognize our good fortune but also understand our obligation to those who do.

Whatever our traditional celebration, it should be undertaken with the utmost sensitivity to the fact that several thousand young Americans are not coming home this year or ever and that many more face that prospect in the days to come. It matters not at all that this is a path they have taken of their own free will or that we disagree with the policies that put them there. We owe them far more than they owe us for they really are just the instrument of our collective desire under a democratic process. We put them there with our electoral choices and they've gone without hesitation.

With this in mind, it is incredible to note that Time magazine's eagerly awaited choice for Person of the Year is us, a reflection of our own image as we gaze at the cover once adorned yearly with the pictures of the world's leading figures, including at one time, Adolph Hitler. This, of course, makes us remember the observation of Pogo, cartoonist Walt Kelley's sage little possum, that “we have met the enemy and they is us.” How true. Otherwise we wouldn't be in this mess where even those charged with carrying out a clearly misguided attempt at imposing our political culture concede that it is a cause fast slipping from our grasp – that the destruction in Iraq may not match the ultimate damage to our national psyche and our place in history as a country that fervently honors justice under the guidance of a supreme being whatever he is called.

Wouldn't the news magazine have done much better selecting a representative of our armed services – perhaps one from each – as persons of the year? Or might it not have been more appropriate to choose one of those mothers whose son or daughter has given his or her life in pursuit of our objectives? If the magazine wanted to broaden that honor, it could have simply adorned the cover with a gold star symbolizing the sacrifice that so many families have made. And while the editors were at it they might have made it clear they were also remembering all the innocent civilians in the war zone who were victims of sectarian violence for which we must accept a measure of responsibility.

It wouldn't be the first time the weekly news magazine used a symbol rather than an actual person or persons. Its editors once chose the computer as the person of the year, a decision that in hindsight probably wasn't all that bad considering how close to assuming most of our human chores these objects have come.

As a young man during World War II, I can remember the abbreviated holiday season when almost every other window in my small Midwest city displayed a star of either service blue or the tragic gold. Every year during the four that Americans were engaged in the “last good war,” more and more of the blue stars changed to the ones indicating the supreme sacrifice. There was a solemnity about our celebrating that reflected the understanding that for many of our neighbors Christmas would never be the same again. We approached the day realizing that the casualty lists posted in our newspapers almost daily required less commercialism and more prayer if the fathers and brothers and uncles of our closest friends were to survive.

As wars go, one cynically could cite the fact that the casualty tolls nowhere near approach those of other conflicts despite the longevity of the fight as a reason to be thankful and less concerned. Wrong. One dead or maimed young man or woman is too many and should serve as a constant reminder of the cost of such affairs. The magnificently observant correspondent Ernie Pyle once wrote that war produces dead men in such monotony that one begins to resent them as they pile up in the fields and hedge rows and burned-out cities.

Many Americans have begun to reflect that kind of despair as the reports of atrocities and the body counts mount daily. It is understandable. But that resentment should not attach itself to those returning home as it did in Vietnam. There may never be peace on Earth but they are our best hope.

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me@rescam.org

Even though my opinions don't affect lifes I care much about truth. That's why I look for truth everywhere I can get it.
But the more those whose action do affect lifes should even more care about truth. In my opinion, each broker, each journalist, each one who counsels politicians - every person who gives information away which can affect lifes or wealth of people, should be made reliable like witnesses at a Courtyard, "to tell the truth and nothing but the truth".

So we should wait for conclusive proof Iran has nukes and just HOPE that proof doesn't come in the form of a mushroom cloud and millions of dead civilians, right? Guess why most Americans don't care what foreigners think...

As far as brokers, the stock market is a risky business. You don't wait for the price of a stock to rise before you buy, you buy when the price is low and hope that it rises so you can then sell it for a profit....not to mention nobody dies and like our military, participation is on a 100% volunteer basis.

As far as the mainstream media....I agree, you care about the truth as much as they do, of course, most Americans realize Journalism is a business. Their job is to sell the news, not to make sure it's accurate....

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I guess I am a bit confused. What does 911 have to do with Iran? Most of the terrorist were from our allies, Suadi Arabia. Actually, prior to Bush comming into office, the people of Iran were pro western. Bush and the neo-cons have polerized the middle east. We had a much better chance of influencing that country before. Now, our military is streched thin and we are being played by China and Russia. BSR, its great to support our troops, I'm a Vet myself, and I do support the men and women in the forces but I can still do this without supporting an illegal war. If we went to Afganistan and stayed there and took care of business there, well that I could have supported. This mirrors Vietnam in so many ways. The administration back then also lied to the American people about the realities on the ground.

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Mrs. Miggins: The Scarlet Pimpernel, Mr. Blackadder! He's so exciting, don't you think?
Blackadder: Actually, I think he's the most over-rated human being since Judas Iscariot won the AD31 Best Disciple Competition.

I guess I am a bit confused. What does 911 have to do with Iran? Most of the terrorist were from our allies, Suadi Arabia. Actually, prior to Bush comming into office, the people of Iran were pro western. Bush and the neo-cons have polerized the middle east. We had a much better chance of influencing that country before. Now, our military is streched thin and we are being played by China and Russia. BSR, its great to support our troops, I'm a Vet myself, and I do support the men and women in the forces but I can still do this without supporting an illegal war. If we went to Afganistan and stayed there and took care of business there, well that I could have supported. This mirrors Vietnam in so many ways. The administration back then also lied to the American people about the realities on the ground.

9/11 was the catalyst that started the war on terror. Iran is attempting to develop a nuclear program and have already stated they intend to "wipe Israel off the map" and I believe the victims of the 1979 hostage situation when they say Ahmadinejad was one of the people holding them prisoner against their will for 444 days.

I would love to discuss with you what exactly the President lied to you about, but I'm about to go out and plan on being highly intoxicated when I return....maybe in the morning I'll be able to respond.

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Even though my opinions don't affect lifes I care much about truth. That's why I look for truth everywhere I can get it.
But the more those whose action do affect lifes should even more care about truth. In my opinion, each broker, each journalist, each one who counsels politicians - every person who gives information away which can affect lifes or wealth of people, should be made reliable like witnesses at a Courtyard, "to tell the truth and nothing but the truth".

So we should wait for conclusive proof Iran has nukes and just HOPE that proof doesn't come in the form of a mushroom cloud and millions of dead civilians, right?

The proof comes when NGO experts will be send there to control their industry and see whether or not they have nukes. That doesn't need the "mushroom".

As far as brokers, the stock market is a risky business. You don't wait for the price of a stock to rise before you buy, you buy when the price is low and hope that it rises so you can then sell it for a profit....not to mention nobody dies

no, people only can lose their entire existence - even though not being involved in this kind of "trade" themselves, just because their employees are closed down after "Hostile Take-overs" for example. In my opinion, stock exchange should be legally treated as Gambling because that's what it really is. If I could change things, I'd make sure that, as example $50-stocks of a certain company should cost their $50 no matter if there are more or less buyers for them.

As far as the mainstream media....I agree, you care about the truth as much as they do, of course, most Americans realize Journalism is a business. Their job is to sell the news, not to make sure it's accurate....

In my opinion, a real journalist is only giving news which are checked and accurate. Selling rumors as news is okay for the "rainbow press", but not for media which want to be taken seriously! That's why I cross-check the articles I read about important topics with other sources, to find out the real facts behind them, and build my own opinion upon the facts after having found them - even though they sometimes seem to be in opposition to the opinion of the mainstream press.

Guess why most Americans don't care what foreigners think...

... may be for the same reason, why some folks cover their ears with their hands during an argument, like: "I don't wanna hear this!" Mostly people don't like to hear things which are uncomfortable to them - and even deny them like "No! You're lying!". It's a way to keep their actual state of sanity...

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Try asking someone that actually lives here instead of spreading lies and propaganda....

Seems to be working well for the current administration...

Then again... How 'bout them elections... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Try asking someone that actually lives here instead of spreading lies and propaganda....

Seems to be working well for the current administration...

Then again... How 'bout them elections... ;)

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I guess I am a bit confused. What does 911 have to do with Iran? Most of the terrorist were from our allies, Suadi Arabia. Actually, prior to Bush comming into office, the people of Iran were pro western. Bush and the neo-cons have polerized the middle east. We had a much better chance of influencing that country before. Now, our military is streched thin and we are being played by China and Russia.

And if you think for one minute that the US does not have an agenda and is not "playing" other Countries, you need a lesson in Politics. WE, meaning the US, are HUGE "players" of the rest of the World, as the rest of the World "plays" the US and other Countries. Do you really think North Korea has any thoughts of launching a missle towards the US with the hopes of attacking it? They are starving, they have NO economy other than the Military, they NEED the US and its M-O-N-E-Y!!!

BSR, its great to support our troops, I'm a Vet myself, and I do support the men and women in the forces but I can still do this without supporting an illegal war. If we went to Afganistan and stayed there and took care of business there, well that I could have supported. This mirrors Vietnam in so many ways. The administration back then also lied to the American people about the realities on the ground.

I am a Veteran too and I do not see an "illegal" war, I see a war that was gotten into thru the legal and Consitutional Process. The things that were used to justify that war in retrospect seem to be highly politically motivated. THAT is a problem! The War is NOT "illegal" The way we got into it may have been. Do ALL Americans support the War, yeah right, not in this lifetime! Do ALL Americans think the same way about ANYTHING, again not in this lifetime! The American people are a huge conglomeration of people that individually want something else from "their" Government. But as a People, we enjoy things no other Country has. The right to free speech, the right to believe or not to believe in god or the devil or nothing or anything. The right to assemble peacefully. The right to do just about anything you would like as long as it does no infringe on the rights of someone else. Go try that somewhere else! In America if you are born here, you are an AUTOMATIC Citizen! Go try that in 99% of the rest of the World!!! In the US if you have the money you can own land, try that in most other Countries! In Bermuda, most people think of that as a nice peaceful place, a non British Citizen cannot own land. And then they can only own land if the people of Bermuda say it is okay! In Mexico a non citizen cannot own land! The World is full of rules the US does not have, and we like it that way!
Do we much care what the rest of the World thinks, no, we left and started our own Country because we did not like yours. If we don't like our own we will either change it, that is one thing we did from the beginning, we gave ourselves the right to change the Government if we so choose, or we will leave again. People are coming to America by the millions everyear! Why, because it is better than their current home. People have been coming to America for over 200 years. People will keep coming because it is better here. People will give up everything they own to come here and start over. In their 20s, 30s, in their 40s, 50s and yes even older than that people come to America to start over! Why? Why give up everything you have and come to a place where nothing is waiting for you?
Is America perfect, ABSOLUTELY NOT! Does America have problems, ABSOLUTELY! But in America if you want to get involved in the process you can be a part of changing what you do not like! THAT is why people come to America! All you have to do in America if you don't like things is get enough people to think like you and the voters will make a change! Don't like the Queen of England? Vote her out! Wait a minute, she wasn't voted in! That is JUST an example, please do not get mad, I personally like the Queen. BUT of you don't like President Bush, vote him out! Former President Clinton was impeached! The next step was removal from Office, and that only failed by several votes.
Oh and by the way, it's Christmas, MERRY CHRISTMAS!

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me@rescam.org

U.N. votes to impede Iran nuclear programs

Wow, that's good news. The UN is gonna solve another problem. Come on ! They are worthless !

I totally agree with you on this issue.

Wow, somebody finally agreed with me. Damn, now they will close the site.

:) I may not see eye to eye on everything with everyone but...

But we are the only guinusess here, all should worship and follow our insight's. And send money !~

I would be more likely to worship your " genius " if you actually knew how to spell genius.....lmao

You got the joke ! Few do on this site. How did that oil for food UN deal work out? Didn't the supreme UN dude give the contract to his son ? Adopt me

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Even though my opinions don't affect lifes I care much about truth. That's why I look for truth everywhere I can get it.
But the more those whose action do affect lifes should even more care about truth. In my opinion, each broker, each journalist, each one who counsels politicians - every person who gives information away which can affect lifes or wealth of people, should be made reliable like witnesses at a Courtyard, "to tell the truth and nothing but the truth".

So we should wait for conclusive proof Iran has nukes and just HOPE that proof doesn't come in the form of a mushroom cloud and millions of dead civilians, right?

The proof comes when NGO experts will be send there to control their industry and see whether or not they have nukes. That doesn't need the "mushroom".

As far as brokers, the stock market is a risky business. You don't wait for the price of a stock to rise before you buy, you buy when the price is low and hope that it rises so you can then sell it for a profit....not to mention nobody dies

no, people only can lose their entire existence - even though not being involved in this kind of "trade" themselves, just because their employees are closed down after "Hostile Take-overs" for example. In my opinion, stock exchange should be legally treated as Gambling because that's what it really is. If I could change things, I'd make sure that, as example $50-stocks of a certain company should cost their $50 no matter if there are more or less buyers for them.

As far as the mainstream media....I agree, you care about the truth as much as they do, of course, most Americans realize Journalism is a business. Their job is to sell the news, not to make sure it's accurate....

In my opinion, a real journalist is only giving news which are checked and accurate. Selling rumors as news is okay for the "rainbow press", but not for media which want to be taken seriously! That's why I cross-check the articles I read about important topics with other sources, to find out the real facts behind them, and build my own opinion upon the facts after having found them - even though they sometimes seem to be in opposition to the opinion of the mainstream press.

Guess why most Americans don't care what foreigners think...

... may be for the same reason, why some folks cover their ears with their hands during an argument, like: "I don't wanna hear this!" Mostly people don't like to hear things which are uncomfortable to them - and even deny them like "No! You're lying!". It's a way to keep their actual state of sanity...

We have to listen to the BBC to get any real news here in California. Our news is all about right wing fighting the left wing-who cares ? But sometimes a puppy falls down a well and we -----never mind

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Even though my opinions don't affect lifes I care much about truth. That's why I look for truth everywhere I can get it.
But the more those whose action do affect lifes should even more care about truth. In my opinion, each broker, each journalist, each one who counsels politicians - every person who gives information away which can affect lifes or wealth of people, should be made reliable like witnesses at a Courtyard, "to tell the truth and nothing but the truth".

So we should wait for conclusive proof Iran has nukes and just HOPE that proof doesn't come in the form of a mushroom cloud and millions of dead civilians, right?

The proof comes when NGO experts will be send there to control their industry and see whether or not they have nukes. That doesn't need the "mushroom".

As far as brokers, the stock market is a risky business. You don't wait for the price of a stock to rise before you buy, you buy when the price is low and hope that it rises so you can then sell it for a profit....not to mention nobody dies

no, people only can lose their entire existence - even though not being involved in this kind of "trade" themselves, just because their employees are closed down after "Hostile Take-overs" for example. In my opinion, stock exchange should be legally treated as Gambling because that's what it really is. If I could change things, I'd make sure that, as example $50-stocks of a certain company should cost their $50 no matter if there are more or less buyers for them.

As far as the mainstream media....I agree, you care about the truth as much as they do, of course, most Americans realize Journalism is a business. Their job is to sell the news, not to make sure it's accurate....

In my opinion, a real journalist is only giving news which are checked and accurate. Selling rumors as news is okay for the "rainbow press", but not for media which want to be taken seriously! That's why I cross-check the articles I read about important topics with other sources, to find out the real facts behind them, and build my own opinion upon the facts after having found them - even though they sometimes seem to be in opposition to the opinion of the mainstream press.

Guess why most Americans don't care what foreigners think...

... may be for the same reason, why some folks cover their ears with their hands during an argument, like: "I don't wanna hear this!" Mostly people don't like to hear things which are uncomfortable to them - and even deny them like "No! You're lying!". It's a way to keep their actual state of sanity...

We have to listen to the BBC to get any real news here in California. Our news is all about right wing fighting the left wing-who cares ? But sometimes a puppy falls down a well and we -----never mind

Well, that's the problem. Many Americans (like many Germans too) aren't that interested in politics, and the mainstream media don't change that. They even don't expect that any one is really interested in politics and rather sell stories than the truth. Imagine, each American news media would tell the people the truth: what change would it be!

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Iran's oil revenue could dry up

By Barry Schweid
ASSOCIATED PRESS

December 26, 2006

WASHINGTON – Iran is suffering a staggering decline in revenue from its oil exports, and if the trend continues, income could virtually disappear by 2015, according to an analysis published yesterday in a journal of the National Academy of Sciences.

Iran's economic woes could make the country unstable and vulnerable, with its oil industry crippled, Roger Stern, an economic geographer at Johns Hopkins University, said in the report and in an interview.

Iran earns about $50 billion a year in oil exports. The decline is estimated at 10 percent to 12 percent annually. In less than five years, exports could be halved and then disappear by 2015, Stern predicted.

For two decades, the United States has deployed military forces in the region in a strategy to pre-empt emergence of a regional superpower.

Iraq was stopped in the 1991 Persian Gulf War, but Iran was designated by President Bush in January 2002 as being part of an “axis of evil.”

The report said the country could be destabilized by falling oil exports, hostility to foreign investment to develop new oil resources and poor state planning, Stern said.

His analysis, which appears in this week's edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, supports U.S. and European suspicions that Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons in violation of international understandings. But, Stern said, there could be merit to Iran's assertion that it needs nuclear power for civilian purposes “as badly as it claims.”

He said oil production is declining and that both gas and oil are being sold domestically at highly subsidized rates. Iran also is neglecting to reinvest in its oil production, Stern said.

“With an explosive demand at home and poor management, the appeal of nuclear power, financed by Russia, could fill a real need for production of more electricity,” he said.

Iran produces about 3.7 million barrels a day, about 300,000 barrels below the quota set for Iran by the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries.

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me@rescam.org