Political Thread [18] - CLOSED

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Message 440939 - Posted: 21 Oct 2006, 0:21:59 UTC

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Message 442546 - Posted: 23 Oct 2006, 18:21:05 UTC

From truthdig.org:
Editor’s note: Kevin Tillman joined the Army with his brother Pat in 2002, and they served together in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pat was killed in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004. Kevin, who was discharged in 2005, has written a powerful, must-read document.

After Pat’s Birthday
It is Pat’s birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we got out.

Much has happened since we handed over our voice:

Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can’t be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that.

Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples” in the military.

Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.

Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.

Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.

Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated.

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world.

Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.

Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.

Somehow this is tolerated.

Somehow nobody is accountable for this.

In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don’t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.

Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday.


Brother and Friend of Pat Tillman,

Kevin Tillman
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Message 442750 - Posted: 24 Oct 2006, 0:20:03 UTC

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Message 442863 - Posted: 24 Oct 2006, 7:23:42 UTC - in response to Message 424578.  

You're assuming that most who have money have earned it rather than inherited it... From my experience, this is simply not the case... ;)

Your experience fails you. Almost entirely the rich in this country earn what they have. Few indeed are those who are "rich" because of inheritance.

Thank you Rush. Rush is ALWAYS right. Few inherit, and those that do are usually disowned
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Message 442917 - Posted: 24 Oct 2006, 10:47:41 UTC - in response to Message 442863.  
Last modified: 24 Oct 2006, 10:48:51 UTC

Rush is ALWAYS right.

Naw... He just has the same problem as the rest of the American bullies... He will destroy his family, he will destroy his business, he will destroy his country, he will literally kill as many people as it takes, to 'make it so'... ;)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 442999 - Posted: 24 Oct 2006, 14:46:29 UTC - in response to Message 442917.  

Rush is ALWAYS right.

Naw... He just has the same problem as the rest of the American bullies... He will destroy his family, he will destroy his business, he will destroy his country, he will literally kill as many people as it takes, to 'make it so'... ;)

That's funny, because you have the same problem as the bullies you decry. You will destroy your family, destroy your life, destroy your country, you will literally kill as many people as it takes to 'make it so'... ;-)

Wow, this is really, really easy. I just follow your lead: say whatever I want, without any evidence whatsoever, nor any attempt to convince others.

I mean, I said it, it must be true right? You say it, it must be true right?
Cordially,
Rush

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Remove the obvious...
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Message 443082 - Posted: 24 Oct 2006, 19:39:20 UTC - in response to Message 442999.  

I mean, I said it, it must be true right? You say it, it must be true right?

That's the beauty of 'opinions'... Opinions don't have to be true, nor be supported by facts or evidence... But if mine weren't so true, you wouldn't be so uptight... Methinks you give yourself away, I just provide the bait (with my opinions)... ;)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 443227 - Posted: 25 Oct 2006, 0:36:55 UTC


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Message 443264 - Posted: 25 Oct 2006, 2:00:37 UTC - in response to Message 443082.  

I mean, I said it, it must be true right? You say it, it must be true right?

That's the beauty of 'opinions'... Opinions don't have to be true, nor be supported by facts or evidence... But if mine weren't so true, you wouldn't be so uptight... Methinks you give yourself away, I just provide the bait (with my opinions)... ;)

Jeffery, would you at least make a small effort?
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Message 443304 - Posted: 25 Oct 2006, 4:14:40 UTC

If you really want to know at what point the US became something less than the upstanding Democracy it has always been; Then research the day that Political Correctness became the watchword in this country.

If it was politically incorrect, you had better stay away from it.

Horse Hockey!! I say!

Speak your mind, speak the truth, and to hell with political correctness!





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Message 443379 - Posted: 25 Oct 2006, 11:23:41 UTC - in response to Message 443304.  

If you really want to know at what point the US became something less than the upstanding Democracy it has always been; Then research the day that Political Correctness became the watchword in this country.

If it was politically incorrect, you had better stay away from it.

Horse Hockey!! I say!

Speak your mind, speak the truth, and to hell with political correctness!





B-IV


I agree. Too many people are too touchy these days. Everyone has to watch what they say just in case someone might get offended.

I believe there are some cases where watching what you say IS a good thing. But the level it has gotten to these days is verging on the absurd.

A person can't say anything against illegal immigration for fear of irritating the Hispanic population and being accused of being racist.



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Message 443383 - Posted: 25 Oct 2006, 11:27:59 UTC - in response to Message 443379.  

A person can't say anything against illegal immigration for fear of irritating the Hispanic population and being accused of being racist.

Or critize the extreme rightwing, lying and dumb Rove/Cheney government without being called anti american.
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Message 443388 - Posted: 25 Oct 2006, 11:46:41 UTC - in response to Message 443383.  

A person can't say anything against illegal immigration for fear of irritating the Hispanic population and being accused of being racist.

Or critize the extreme rightwing, lying and dumb Rove/Cheney government without being called anti american.


Not only Anti American...but PRO Terrorist.

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Message 443417 - Posted: 25 Oct 2006, 12:28:45 UTC - in response to Message 443388.  

A person can't say anything against illegal immigration for fear of irritating the Hispanic population and being accused of being racist.

Or critize the extreme rightwing, lying and dumb Rove/Cheney government without being called anti american.


Not only Anti American...but PRO Terrorist.

Oh yes, how could I forget that those who created the terrorist training ground in Iraq are the ones who are the only ones truly against those criminals.
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Message 443428 - Posted: 25 Oct 2006, 12:53:45 UTC - in response to Message 443417.  

A person can't say anything against illegal immigration for fear of irritating the Hispanic population and being accused of being racist.

Or critize the extreme rightwing, lying and dumb Rove/Cheney government without being called anti american.


Not only Anti American...but PRO Terrorist.

Oh yes, how could I forget that those who created the terrorist training ground in Iraq are the ones who are the only ones truly against those criminals.


Yeah. Everyone knows that to be truly against the terrorists, we have to accept everything our government tells us.

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Message 443439 - Posted: 25 Oct 2006, 13:08:53 UTC - in response to Message 443428.  

Yeah. Everyone knows that to be truly against the terrorists, we have to accept everything our government tells us.

Do you mean your government or anyones own?
I mean, mine doesn't tell me all those b*s*, so am I allowed to disagree or is the us-american government the only one that counts?
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Message 443451 - Posted: 25 Oct 2006, 13:28:19 UTC - in response to Message 443439.  

Yeah. Everyone knows that to be truly against the terrorists, we have to accept everything our government tells us.

Do you mean your government or anyones own?
I mean, mine doesn't tell me all those b*s*, so am I allowed to disagree or is the us-american government the only one that counts?


We aren't the only one that counts....but we are one of a few that have such a high level of distrust in their respective gov't


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Message 443523 - Posted: 25 Oct 2006, 16:23:38 UTC

Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it. The most irritating problem I have with the US government at the moment, is that we have NO national language. You might not think this to be a large problem. Well let me tell you, when you have immigrants coming in from dozens of countries, the legal ones I mean, they have NO incentive to learn our language. What's more, instead of becoming citizens of your great nation, they are obliged to bring their customs and tenets with them from theirs and creat small pockets of nationalism within our boundaries. That is something that I don't have to tolerate. There are some laws here that need amending, and there are some that need to be enacted that aren't currently on the books!




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Message 443534 - Posted: 25 Oct 2006, 16:52:01 UTC - in response to Message 443439.  

is the us-american government the only one that counts?

They seem to think so... ;)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 443624 - Posted: 25 Oct 2006, 19:53:39 UTC
Last modified: 25 Oct 2006, 19:56:16 UTC

I am gob-smacked ...
Just read this on the BBC web-site
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6084902.s

He has the temerity to state:
"Civilians had suffered "unspeakable violence at the hands of the terrorists, insurgents, illegal militias, armed groups and criminals," he said.
But he warned that if the US was not successful in Iraq, extremists could use it as a base from which to try to establish a "radical empire from Spain to Indonesia". "

Has it taken him this long to come to this earth-shattering conclusion?
"Mr Bush said that he was "making it clear that America's patience is not unlimited"."

Has he taken leave of his senses? It is precisely he who has created this incredible situation!!!
What is he going to do if the puppet regime cannot rein in the militias?

It is enough for a sane man to scream out "Come back Saddam Hussein ... all is forgiven"

Iraq was NEVER in this parlous a state under Saddam Hussein.
(May my God grant me absolution for that statement. It happens to be fact!



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