Book of Moroni

....says it all.

... about YOUR lack of character, Chucky... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

At first glance it may seem ironic that Chuck is so upset by these group labellings but in reality it gives away his premises about mankind in general. Chuck sees everyone's 'membership' in some kind of group as paramount to the individual. It's rampant through his politics ad nauseum. 'Big business'.., 'The Americans', 'The Israelis', 'The poor', etc etc.....

you have an excellent point.

Its like I've said before I belive that reliong, or well I should say faith and science are the same... to find the truth, and for me I define the truth as that which dose not change. Just as the laws of physics don't change neither does what is right... which is wher the study of religon comes in

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/Central Florida Astronomical Society

At first glance it may seem ironic that Chuck is so upset by these group labellings but in reality it gives away his premises about mankind in general. Chuck sees everyone's 'membership' in some kind of group as paramount to the individual. It's rampant through his politics ad nauseum. 'Big business'.., 'The Americans', 'The Israelis', 'The poor', etc etc.....

you have an excellent point.

Its like I've said before I belive that reliong, or well I should say faith and science are the same... to find the truth, and for me I define the truth as that which dose not change. Just as the laws of physics don't change neither does what is right... which is wher the study of religon comes in

How can you say that faith and science are the same? Can you explain that?

Truth is that which corresponds with reality. How is faith equivalent to science in this regard?

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Its like I've said before I belive that reliong, or well I should say faith and science are the same... to find the truth, and for me I define the truth as that which dose not change. Just as the laws of physics don't change neither does what is right... which is wher the study of religon comes in

How can you say that faith and science are the same? Can you explain that?

Truth is that which corresponds with reality. How is faith equivalent to science in this regard?[/quote]

First... I'm not saying the two are interchangable. Religon and Science can not replace the other, they are both unique tools for thier own field. Its just as I said one is a too for exploring the out side world, the other is for the world inside each of us, and just as the laws of physics don't change from person to person neither does God

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/Central Florida Astronomical Society

Its like I've said before I belive that reliong, or well I should say faith and science are the same... to find the truth, and for me I define the truth as that which dose not change. Just as the laws of physics don't change neither does what is right... which is wher the study of religon comes in

How can you say that faith and science are the same? Can you explain that?

Truth is that which corresponds with reality. How is faith equivalent to science in this regard?

First... I'm not saying the two are interchangable. Religon and Science can not replace the other, they are both unique tools for thier own field. Its just as I said one is a too for exploring the out side world, the other is for the world inside each of us, and just as the laws of physics don't change from person to person neither does God[/quote]

Which particular god would that be?

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Which particular god would that be?

There is only one God, but there are many paths that lead to the one.

Which particular god would that be?

There is only one God, but there are many paths that lead to the one.

How do you know? Did he tell you, and if so, prove it!

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Which particular god would that be?

There is only one God, but there are many paths that lead to the one.

How do you know? Did he tell you, and if so, prove it!

I know it for myself. It appears that it would be pointless to try and prove it to you; but since this is a thread about religion, if you are interested in my reasons (and not simply in starting a fight), I would be happy to discuss my thoughts on this topic with you.

Which particular god would that be?

There is only one God, but there are many paths that lead to the one.

How do you know? Did he tell you, and if so, prove it!

I know it for myself. It appears that it would be pointless to try and prove it to you; but since this is a thread about religion, if you are interested in my reasons (and not simply in starting a fight), I would be happy to discuss my thoughts on this topic with you.

Sorry, didn't mean to be confrontational, I'm not a sceptic, more a "worried, but willing to believe", however, as someone who has had a greater faith in the ability of science to cure the worlds evils, than that of organised religion, I almost envy those with a belief in the esotericness (is that a word?) of religious belief!

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Sorry, didn't mean to be confrontational, I'm not a sceptic, more a "worried, but willing to believe", however, as someone who has had a greater faith in the ability of science to cure the worlds evils, than that of organised religion, I almost envy those with a belief in the esotericness (is that a word?) of religious belief!

Well, discussion of ideas involving religion, including the views of skeptics, agnostics and atheists, is the purpose of this thread (and its predecessors).

I think all of you are just plain nuts!

Sorry, didn't mean to be confrontational, I'm not a sceptic, more a "worried, but willing to believe", however, as someone who has had a greater faith in the ability of science to cure the worlds evils, than that of organised religion, I almost envy those with a belief in the esotericness (is that a word?) of religious belief!

Well, discussion of ideas involving religion, including the views of skeptics, agnostics and atheists, is the purpose of this thread (and its predecessors).

Thank you for being gracious, and I am not being sarcastic, there has been a huge amount of upheaval and grief in my life, but I am pretty well in a good place with myself now. What I fail to come to grips with is way that the varying religious groups around the world, and their varying ways of worship, cannot make a space for tolerance and understanding of each others beliefs. I am not an idiot and know that this kind of question is very much of the curates' egg style, but how can someone like myself take heart from the fact that there are so many different beliefs!

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Thank you for being gracious, and I am not being sarcastic, there has been a huge amount of upheaval and grief in my life, but I am pretty well in a good place with myself now. What I fail to come to grips with is way that the varying religious groups around the world, and their varying ways of worship, cannot make a space for tolerance and understanding of each others beliefs. I am not an idiot and know that this kind of question is very much of the curates' egg style, but how can someone like myself take heart from the fact that there are so many different beliefs!

Assuming that this is not a rhetorical question: my view is that the many different beliefs are inevitable, and conflicts based on these differences are merely using that fact as a way to excuse simple self-interest. A "religious" belief, used to justify aggression toward others is antithetical to the moral teaching of any religion.

What is interesting to me is the general agreement between religions of their ethical teachings (despite the fact that many people will try to twist even these teachings to support their own economic, military or other personal interests). For example, all religions have some equivalent of "The Golden Rule".

Assuming that this is not a rhetorical question: my view is that the many different beliefs are inevitable, and conflicts based on these differences are merely using that fact as a way to excuse simple self-interest. A "religious" belief, used to justify aggression toward others is antithetical to the moral teaching of any religion.

Islam's 'aggression toward others' is fully inline with all of its teachings. They've got integrity.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Assuming that this is not a rhetorical question: my view is that the many different beliefs are inevitable, and conflicts based on these differences are merely using that fact as a way to excuse simple self-interest. A "religious" belief, used to justify aggression toward others is antithetical to the moral teaching of any religion.

Islam's 'aggression toward others' is fully inline with all of its teachings. They've got integrity.

I don't recognise you as an authority on Islam. Your opinion is even more suspect when viewed in light of your prior posts, which seem more intent on being rude and hurtful than in contributing to the discussion. Where are your ethics? More to the point, where are your manners?

Assuming that this is not a rhetorical question: my view is that the many different beliefs are inevitable, and conflicts based on these differences are merely using that fact as a way to excuse simple self-interest. A "religious" belief, used to justify aggression toward others is antithetical to the moral teaching of any religion.

Islam's 'aggression toward others' is fully inline with all of its teachings. They've got integrity.

I don't recognise you as an authority on Islam. Your opinion is even more suspect when viewed in light of your prior posts, which seem more intent on being rude and hurtful than in contributing to the discussion. Where are your ethics? More to the point, where are your manners?

Go ahead and attack the MAN and not the point, Tom.

You claimed earlier that religion used to justify aggression toward others is antithetica to the moral teaching of ANY religion.

Are you an 'expert' in these other religions, Tom? Or any religion? Since when do we have to be an expert in religion to post here, Tom?

If you wish to discuss comparatively my ethics vs those of Islam or YOUR ethics, Tom, we can do so. But you seem to just want to insult people and be ill mannered.

I'll reassert my claim that the aggression shown by Islam is fully compatible with the Koran and therefore those practicing it have integrity. Integrity is the adherence to one's system of values, Tom.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

I don't recognise you as an authority on Islam. Your opinion is even more suspect when viewed in light of your prior posts, which seem more intent on being rude and hurtful than in contributing to the discussion. Where are your ethics? More to the point, where are your manners?

Go ahead and attack the MAN and not the point, Tom.

You claimed earlier that religion used to justify aggression toward others is antithetica to the moral teaching of ANY religion.

Are you an 'expert' in these other religions, Tom? Or any religion? Since when do we have to be an expert in religion to post here, Tom?

If you wish to discuss comparatively my ethics vs those of Islam or YOUR ethics, Tom, we can do so. But you seem to just want to insult people and be ill mannered.

I'll reassert my claim that the aggression shown by Islam is fully compatible with the Koran and therefore those practicing it have integrity. Integrity is the adherence to one's system of values, Tom.

Hit a sore spot with you, didn't I? I linked to your insulting post #406561 as an example of your lack of manners. So, you can dish it out but you can't take it. And still you fail to add to the conversation. Your reaction simply convinces me that my assessment of you was correct, that you "seem more intent on being rude and hurtful than in contributing to the discussion".

I actually I never clicked to your link until after I had responded. Can't take a joke? Maybe you just think that people that don't agree with your views on religion shouldn't be posting in here.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Assuming that this is not a rhetorical question: my view is that the many different beliefs are inevitable, and conflicts based on these differences are merely using that fact as a way to excuse simple self-interest. A "religious" belief, used to justify aggression toward others is antithetical to the moral teaching of any religion.

Islam's 'aggression toward others' is fully inline with all of its teachings. They've got integrity.

I don't recognise you as an authority on Islam. Your opinion is even more suspect when viewed in light of your prior posts, which seem more intent on being rude and hurtful than in contributing to the discussion. Where are your ethics? More to the point, where are your manners?

Go ahead and attack the MAN and not the point, Tom.

You claimed earlier that religion used to justify aggression toward others is antithetica to the moral teaching of ANY religion.

Are you an 'expert' in these other religions, Tom? Or any religion? Since when do we have to be an expert in religion to post here, Tom?

If you wish to discuss comparatively my ethics vs those of Islam or YOUR ethics, Tom, we can do so. But you seem to just want to insult people and be ill mannered.

I'll reassert my claim that the aggression shown by Islam is fully compatible with the Koran and therefore those practicing it have integrity. Integrity is the adherence to one's system of values, Tom.

Taking the belief that the bible and the koran were written by a man and men, albeit with the premise that they were divinely inspired, and have the same prime originator as god, what is all the fighting about? The old testament is full of wars, blood and guts, idolatry, bigotry, lust, depravity, rape, arson, incest, patricide, matricide, infanticide, and in fact genocide, so do we follow that? The new testament has some of the above, but also advocates generosity of spirit, wealth, time and love, and although I cannot say I have a great knowledge of the koran, I do believe it has much in common with the new testaments' tenets. So where in all these awful conflicts does the goodness with which we are supposed to imbue our lives have any justification. In my opinion, it is not the fact of the existence of god or otherwise that counts, it is the fact that man interprets everything to justify his/her evil actions.

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Christians rely on the new testament as the source of their guiding principles. It's rooted in judeaism but that is not where it derives its basis in ethics. Whereas the Koran teaches opposition to the principles that drive the christian and does it wholesale. They are two totally different animals.

ps Since when is the existence of god considered a 'fact' ? If it is I'll profess belief RIGHT NOW.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!