According to a reality tv show on FX channel.

%50 of Americans will not vote for a political candidate who is an atheist even if he/she was qualified for the position.

Atheists rank below homosexuals, immigrants, and muslims in a poll that asked which group in America was the least trustworthy.

Just thought this was an interesting tidbit.

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

---

Account frozen...

Where's Captain Avatar when you need him? You know, too really make this punch line stick...

:-)

According to a reality tv show on FX channel.

%50 of Americans will not vote for a political candidate who is an atheist even if he/she was qualified for the position.

Atheists rank below homosexuals, immigrants, and muslims in a poll that asked which group in America was the least trustworthy.

Just thought this was an interesting tidbit.

Why thats very funny. I have 2 friends besides me who are atheist. Yet we are some the hardest working, nicest, most compassionate, and trustworthy people I know.

According to American Atheists 25 million Americans are either atheists or dont follow a religon.

---

In courts atheists in many jurisdictions were forbidden to testify upon their own half. It was considered, as it is still clearly thought today by many, that morality comes from religion. No religion? You're evil and therefore cannot be trusted in court to tell the truth. Of course, this meant that an atheist was vulnerable to any civil action as he could not defend himself BY LAW. Everyone took advantage and many atheists lost all their assets and were forced into poverty.

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

In courts atheists in many jurisdictions were forbidden to testify upon their own half. It was considered, as it is still clearly thought today by many, that morality comes from religion. No religion? You're evil and therefore cannot be trusted in court to tell the truth. Of course, this meant that an atheist was vulnerable to any civil action as he could not defend himself BY LAW. Everyone took advantage and many atheists lost all their assets and were forced into poverty.

I believe that was the impetus for the US Supreme Court in the 1960's to declare that atheism is a "religion" for the purposes of the First Amendment. By the Fourteenth Amendment, the state and local governments come under the same Bill of Rights restrictions already in place against the federal government. This would prevent enforcing laws that, for example, favor one "religion" over another.

---

No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

Everyone took advantage and many atheists lost all their assets and were forced into poverty.

Sounds like a good motive to shake the world, start a war, demonize religious groups such as Christians and Muslims, and finally rid the world of all those who believe in the God of the Bible and of the Qur'an (WITHOUT CHANGE)... However, hypocrites will be spared so long as they don't ever reach a full understanding of their Holy Books... ;)

---

It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Everyone took advantage and many atheists lost all their assets and were forced into poverty.

Sounds like a good motive to shake the world, start a war, demonize religious groups such as Christians and Muslims, and finally rid the world of all those who believe in the God of the Bible and of the Qur'an (WITHOUT CHANGE)... However, hypocrites will be spared so long as they don't ever reach a full understanding of their Holy Books... ;)

Are the people reading your above comment to believe that if one is against inequality under the law due to the fact that someone does not believe in your, his, her, its, god then he should not be afforded equal protection within the courts? And somehow my rational plea to people to recognize that there is a history of de jure discrimination against people who reject a religion should be morphed by you into a vast conspiracy theory about why the West fights a war on terrorists?

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Are the people reading your above comment to believe that [blah, blah, blah, snip]

It's more likely that a group of wronged people who don't believe they will be held accountable by a supreme being to seek revenge for their injustices by means of lying, deceiving, stealing, slandering, and murdering, than it would be for a group of God fearing people to travel across the globe to a foreign land and destroy it simply because, and I quote, "They don't like our freedoms and our way of life", end quote... Then yes, that is exactly what I'm saying...

Don't worry though... I would never go so far as to blame ALL 'athiests' and start a 'crusade' against them for the 'crimes' of a small few... Anyway, this is all just 'hypothetical' of course... ;)

---

It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

In courts atheists in many jurisdictions were forbidden to testify upon their own half. It was considered, as it is still clearly thought today by many, that morality comes from religion. No religion? You're evil and therefore cannot be trusted in court to tell the truth. Of course, this meant that an atheist was vulnerable to any civil action as he could not defend himself BY LAW. Everyone took advantage and many atheists lost all their assets and were forced into poverty.

Um, Robert, it's also got a lot to do with what an oath actually is. It's a solemn invocation calling upon God to witness the truth to what is about to be said.

So, atheists are not prohibited from testifying, but they are ordered to make an "affirmation" instead, because taking an oath would just make no sense.

---

In courts atheists in many jurisdictions were forbidden to testify upon their own half. It was considered, as it is still clearly thought today by many, that morality comes from religion. No religion? You're evil and therefore cannot be trusted in court to tell the truth. Of course, this meant that an atheist was vulnerable to any civil action as he could not defend himself BY LAW. Everyone took advantage and many atheists lost all their assets and were forced into poverty.

Um, Robert, it's also got a lot to do with what an oath actually is. It's a solemn invocation calling upon God to witness the truth to what is about to be said.

So, atheists are not prohibited from testifying, but they are ordered to make an "affirmation" instead, because taking an oath would just make no sense.

Not in America.

That was part of the courts reasoning IN THE PAST but I'm not sure what you're on about. There were LAWS prohibiting atheists from assuming the witness stand. This is NOT the same as a law or procedure concerning oaths.

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Few things I'd like to mention:

The pic of the kid praying "please make it all stop" demonstrates the uselessness of praying. What if the kid instead organized his school to make a demonstration for peace? Do you think a parade of children waving peace signs would FAIL to get on the evening news? This shows the difference between actual RATIONAL planned action against faith[/] and praying[/i] - accomplishing nothing.

The pic of the nun telling the retarded child god hates him? Is correct. Of course 'god' hates the retarded child - if such a ridiculous being as 'god' existed, then it is 'god's' fault the child is retarded - being all knowing and all-seeing, god knew that the child would be retarded and allowed it, doing nothing about it. Obviously he hates the child to mistreat him so.

You're still going to have bad days and crappy things happen to you.

Sure you are, Troy, but no matter what happens, you take solace, and kowtow like a sheep, saying (read in an idiotic tone):"it's all part of god's plan...it's all OK...we never feel love so intensely as when one we love is murdered and taken from us, and since it all comes from god, then this pain is GOOD"
What kind of stupid idiot thinks that??? This is why I have no respect at all for morons who can't see - they just can't see.

An actual retarded person I have nothing against because they can't help it. But being deliberately retarded? Choosing to be deliberately stupid?? Those people are the enemies of progress. The enemies of humanity - although their leaders just love them, because they'll blindly follow anyone babbling "god, god, glory, god, god is on our side, he makes us to blah blah blah snip" (wow, jeffrey, your rudeness sure does show contempt very well, thank you for the idea)
Tell me your country didn't blindly follow Bush into Iraq.


People who are enemies of humanity need to be fixed. No, not need to be killed; that is a fundaMENTAList way. EDUCATE them. That's all it takes. Deprogramming for some first, then EDUCATING them. LOGIC would be a good place to start.


Read 'Oasis in Space' yet, Jeffrey?

---

Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

Chuck, you make a great deal of sense some times but you somehow fail to apply logic across the board into the realms of ethics and politics. I've attempted to address this with you in the past but you shy away from the challenges. If only you'd take the same tact with phony and dishonest arguments in favor of mysticism with politics you'd be consistently reasonable. You drop your rationality at the door whenever you enter those rooms.

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

you make a great deal of sense

Nonsense... ;)

---

It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

you make a great deal of sense

Nonsense... ;)

Jeffrey, can you please avoid quoting me out of context? I know that that is part of your reportoire but seriously....

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Knightmare,

I just responded to a post you have on "Middle East in Crisis..."

I wanted to make sure that you saw this...

Also, I believe that my post is much better suited to this Thread; so, here it is:

(Note: I have also posted this in "Myths, Legends, and Conspiracies".)

==================================================================

why isn't the phrase " But you have to......" found at the end of John 3:16??

This is EXACTLY what is wrong with modern' christianity'... There are thousands upon thousands of verses and 'christians' only seem to follow the ones to their liking... Want to know which verses they are? Just buy a 'christian standard bible', you will see them all highlighted for you... When did God give 'christians' this kind of authority?

To answer your question... God presented us with the exact same question and provided us with HIS answer starting here:

James 2:14
What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?

I would suggest that Christians read THE ENTIRE BOOK... ;)

Odd....Let's see here. Lutherans call themselves " christians "...Baptists call themselves " christians "...Jehovas Witnesses call THEMSELVES " christians "...Catholics call themselves " christians " too.

Guess what...NONE of them can agree on what the " true " word of God is. So ya know something, I am just going to take my chances and believe what I want to. I HAVE read the entire Bible Jeffy. I was raised a Lutheran and went to a Lutheran school for the majority of my school years.

The way I see it...if none of THEM can agree on much of anything, then why should I trust THEM to be the ones telling me the way it should be? Seems like a rather illogical thing to do. Might as well flip a coin a few times...or better yet...just become a ( edited so as not to offend anyone )...they don't seem to be from this planet anyway.

Maybe I should just start my own Cult and be done with it. :-)

The problem with the many of the various churches out there is that they claim to be Christian; however, choose NOT to take into account the fact that "The Apostacy", (the killing off of ALL the original apostles of Christ), destroyed the Original True Church of Christ. When that happened, (as per the edicts of a certain mainstream church of that day), "man" started imposing his own edicts and definitions, and laws based upon "False Authority"... This is why these churches cannot, (and may never), agree on what is the "True" way; or, the "True" Teachings of Heavenly Father and Jesus The Christ.

However; (without having this taken by the SETI masses as '... now he's preaching his own Church's Gospel' - I am just clarifying a point; for I am just a man and as such know I cannot convert anyone, instead I am bound only to state what I know and believe and let others choose by their free will to either believe or not to believe), one Joseph Smith prayed about this very issue.

When Joseph prayed, (before he was answered by God and Christ), Satan/Lucifer/the beguiler and deceiver attempted to choke Joseph into unconsciousness. Before completely yielding to the strangle hold upon him, he cried out unto the Lord, (Jesus The Christ), for help. Then a bright light shown from above, down upon Joseph. The darkness was vanquished, and the strangle hold removed. Joseph then heard the words of Heavenly Father, and saw two personages! The voice spoke - "This is my only begotten Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear ye him."

Then Jesus spoke to Joseph... (Ending this here... For those interested, please feel free to pick up a Book of Mormon from your local Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Contrary to popular belief, YOU WILL NOT BE BUM RUSHED TO BE CONVERTED! Just state that you are interested in reading the book for yourself.)

From this point, (following Christ's message to Joseph), it was made clear to Joseph that, (paraphrased), '...While there are some truths, and goodness, contained within all of their various doctrines; NONE of these churches are true!' Joseph was visited by an Angel and continuing to pray and hear Heavenly Father's words, and accepting guidance from the Angel, Joseph translated the Book of Mormon from the Golden Plates that were presented to him to find. Upon the completion of translation, Joseph Smith formed the True Church of Christ which is named - "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints."

I could continue on; however, I will not preach here thus forcing people to view what they choose not to view... My purpose was to answer to the best of my ability questions posed above, and clarify points that were left murky... I have a VERY strong Testimony that The Church of Latter Day Saints is the True Church of Christ. Further I have a VERY strong Testimony that Heavenly Father RESTORED the "Keys of Authority" and the "Full Truth of the Gospel" in having Joseph complete his task in translating the Book of Mormon, (NOT as a replacement to the Bible; however), AS A COMPANION to the Bible. To clarify for man the truths held within the Bible and to provide mankind with the true path back to Heavenly Father. Here is where I will stop...

Thank you for your patience, interest, curiosity, and indulgence. Again, my hope is to clarify points of interest from other questions posted by other people here at SETI; NOT to step on a soap box to judge anyone here.


Thank you,

---

TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos

Sorry Robert, I don't get you, could you please explain yourself a little more in depth? I don't see how

EDUCATE them. That's all it takes. Deprogramming for some first, then EDUCATING them. LOGIC would be a good place to start.

Shows a lack of logic. If you find logic missing in places, I would like to know where those places are.

---

Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

"This is my only begotten Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear ye him."

Speaking of 'begotten', do you really believe that God had sex with Mary and literally begot a literal son? Not to mention, if God begot Jesus then how can Jesus be God? Did God Beget Himself? To beget means to create... I believe God created Jesus just as He created Adam in the beginning... Jesus was born of man (Mary) and filled with the Spirit of God, Adam was neither... The reason people believe that Jesus is God is because they can't seem to grasp the fact that God was speaking through Jesus despite how many times Jesus made that very clear... (Yes, I'm quite aware of John 1)

John 5:29-30
I can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true

John 8:28
So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority but speak thus as the Father taught me.

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.

John 12:44-50
And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. And he who sees me sees him who sent me. I have come as light into the world, that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. If any one hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day. For I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak. And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has bidden me."

John 14:10
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works.

Just some food for thought... If I'm wrong and Jesus is God then I'm still okay as I worship God, but if you're wrong and Jesus is not God then worshiping Jesus would be idolatry... Not a position I'd want to be in... ;)

---

It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

---

Account frozen...

I'm confused. Bush called an Islamic group fascists. Fascism has been a very exclusively Christian enterprise since it was conceived. If a Christian president invites outsiders into the club, does that make him a liberal?

---