Why (according to your beliefs) does prayer work?
I am really looking for the monotheist interpretation of prayer.

I tried to explain it here: About Prayer

The TRUE believer knows that this life is but a test and that there will be many trials and tribulations for him/her to go through...

Prayer isn't about what YOU want... Prayer is about asking God for guidance to achieve what HE wants...

Bible Prayer:
Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; And forgive us our debts, As we also have forgiven our debtors; And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil.

Qur'an Prayer:
Praise belongs to God, the Lord of all Being,
the All-merciful, the All-compassionate,
the Master of the Day of Doom.
Thee only we serve; to Thee alone we pray for succour.
Guide us in the straight path, the path of those
whom Thou hast blessed, not of those against
whom Thou art wrathful, nor of those who are astray.

See the similarities? I sure do... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

It burns! It burns!!!

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Reality Internet Personality

It burns! It burns!!!

LOL... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

The TRUE believer knows that this life is but a test and that there will be many trials and tribulations for him/her to go through...

Prayer isn't about what YOU want... Prayer is about asking God for guidance to achieve what HE wants...

How do you know this again? What was your methodology used to discover this? Additionally, can you refresh the class with your knowledge of how you know god exists in the first place?

Thanks.
Some of us are slow learners.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

How do you know this again?

I don't KNOW it...

I read the Book, I understand the Book, and I BELIEVE the Book...

Some of us are slow learners.

I've noticed... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Why (according to your beliefs) does prayer work?
I am really looking for the monotheist interpretation of prayer.

I tried to explain it here: About Prayer

The TRUE believer knows that this life is but a test and that there will be many trials and tribulations for him/her to go through...

Prayer isn't about what YOU want... Prayer is about asking God for guidance to achieve what HE wants...

Bible Prayer:
Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; And forgive us our debts, As we also have forgiven our debtors; And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil.

Qur'an Prayer:
Praise belongs to God, the Lord of all Being,
the All-merciful, the All-compassionate,
the Master of the Day of Doom.
Thee only we serve; to Thee alone we pray for succour.
Guide us in the straight path, the path of those
whom Thou hast blessed, not of those against
whom Thou art wrathful, nor of those who are astray.

See the similarities? I sure do... ;)

This is interesting but doesn't quite answer my question.

If you are praying for guidence, then you are prayer to receive something (generically information, or at least an invisible guard rail around your decisionmaking process). If it was part of His plan to provide that guidence, why should you have to pray for it?

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No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

If it was part of His plan to provide that guidence, why should you have to pray for it?

This is where 'free will' comes in to play...

Gods plan is that all of mankind should come to a state of repentance... Until you reach that state in your life, unfortunately, most of your prayers will be left unanswered...

You pray to ask God for His guidance... If you don't pray then you obviously don't want Gods guidance and He will not force it upon you... The choice to ask for guidance is yours, but wether or not you receive that guidance is entirely up to God... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

This is where 'free will' comes in to play...

You pray to ask God for His guidance... If you don't pray then you obviously don't want Gods guidance and He will not force it upon you...

God's plan is that all of mankind should come to a state of repentance... Until you reach that state in your life, unfortunately, most of your prayers will be left unanswered...

The choice to ask for guidance is yours, but wether or not you receive that guidance is entirely up to God... ;)

..ahhh the small print. Are you sure God's not an insurance salesman?

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Reality Internet Personality

..ahhh the small print.

Small print?

It's the unchanging message throughout ALL of the Holy Books...

REPENTANCE FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

..ahhh the small print.

Small print?

It's the unchanging message throughout ALL of the Holy Books...

REPENTANCE FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS... ;)

I am sorry...:-(

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Bow to me and repent, CA......it's good practice. You might as well start here on earth with the Demigods before moving up to 'Mac Daddy'...

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Let's enjoy a little 'logic' here, jeffrey.

So. man has free will, has he?
Fine. Is your god omnipotent?

Yes, as you have said a few times.
So, your god created man knowing what each and every man would do, until the end of time. That is Omniscience, knowing all, a side effect of Omnipotence, being able to do anything at all.

So how does man then have 'free' will? Your 'god' knows what any given man will do at any given moment. How is that free will? Your god has set up some men to be evil, some to be good, and many to be in-between, doing both, and there is NO choice in what they do at all - your god knew what everyone would do in the instant he came into existence.

So then how could any man be said to have free will? How could any man be 'born-again' of their own accord? How can we balme any man at all for being 'evil' - Hitler wasn't responsible for killing 6 000 000 000 Jews, it was your 'god' who created him, knowing full well through omniscience what Hitler would pull, eons(oh wait -creationism!) millenia later, and not changing an iota of it.




How many other people in here can see how stupid jeffrey (and others) actually are? How many others in here already knew this argument but didn't bother to bring it up to jeffrey, knowing he'll twist out of it like a weasel claiming we are wrong?

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Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

Bow to me and repent, CA......it's good practice. You might as well start here on earth with the Demigods before moving up to 'Mac Daddy'...

I am Kneeling before you oh Great Noodley One.....

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First of all, I think it was Voltaire who said, 'Natural religion for the magistrate, damned stuff for the mob.' He was actually referring to organised religion when he said 'damned stuff.'
I certainly don't think Seti is a religion. Seti relies on scientific method in order to solve a mystery. And of course, I don't think many Seti members go out and pray to the stars. Nor is ET regarded as a supernatural being or power. Seti is, therefore, pure science, but it needs a little bit of faith in order to get started in the first place. I call it optimism, the hope that there is something out there with whom we can communicate.
As to where we came from, 'We are such stuff as stars are made of.' I am an evolutionist. I believe life evolved from the oceans.
Do I believe in the Bible? Yes and no. My particular belief, however, would probably not fit well with either scientists or fundamentalist Christians.
Who or what is God, if he/she exists? Yahweh might have been an extraterrestrial, but of course, in order to cross the vast distances in space they would have to be a very advanced race of spacefaring beings.
You could pick holes in what I believe until Kingdom Come, so please go ahead.
I do not think there is any contradiction in my believeing in the Bible and believing in evolution. I think it depends on how you look at the Bible. I try to read the Bible in the light of modern science, but what I think could all be wrong.
Susan

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'No one can make you inferior without your consent.'
Eleanor Roosevelt.

I belive what I belive based on reason and experican but not always logic. I really do think that too many people are slaves to logic.

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/Central Florida Astronomical Society

I belive what I belive based on reason and experican but not always logic. I really do think that too many people are slaves to logic.

That's the statement people make when they confess that they're willfully avoiding dealing with reality on reality's terms. Logic is the engine that drives Reason. Reason is the faculty unique to man that is his primary tool of survival. To undercut it says volumes about one's approach to understanding reality and one's subsequent ethical premises.

No logic=no rationality.

No rationality=no integrated conception of the world.

"Nature to be commanded must be obeyed"----Francis Bacon
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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

I belive what I belive based on reason and experican but not always logic. I really do think that too many people are slaves to logic.

I changed my sig just for you

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That's the statement people make when they confess that they're willfully avoiding dealing with reality on reality's terms. Logic is the engine that drives Reason. Reason is the faculty unique to man that is his primary tool of survival. To undercut it says volumes about one's approach to understanding reality and one's subsequent ethical premises.

No logic=no rationality.

No rationality=no integrated conception of the world.

"Nature to be commanded must be obeyed"----Francis Bacon

I don't think that beliveing in God is a failure to deal with reaility at all. Its not like you start beliveing in God then all the sudden life is easy street. You're still going to have bad days and crappy things happen to you. Reason is unique to man and I don't feel that my founation for my belifes are all that unreasonable. In its most basic form my belife in God based on my belife that there is more to the universe then that what the eye percives. Is that really any stranger then the Hisenburg uncertianty principal? Now thats weird.

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/Central Florida Astronomical Society

President Bush Signs Soledad Cross Bill

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me@rescam.org

OMG!!! There's that cross again!!! Take it down!!! Take it down!!! It's burning my eyes!!!

Yea... [rolls eyes] Now that's 'rational'... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .