Scientists expose false premises of religion, flawed logic besets religionists



Wolpert writes about the way people think about cause and effect, citing experiments on how we reason and the biases that guide us when we make decisions. He is looking into what he calls “causal belief” – the belief that events or conditions we experience have a cause, possibly a supernatural cause.

Human reasoning is “beset with logical problems that include overemphasis on coincidence, distortion of the evidence, circular reasoning, use of anecdotes, ignorance of science and failures of logic,” he writes. And whatever these traits may say about acceptance of religion, they have a lot to do with public misunderstanding of science.

So, he concludes, “We have to both respect, if we can, the beliefs of others, and accept the responsibility to try and change them if the evidence for them is weak or scientifically improbable.”

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Oh he's bound alright. Bound with this Bible Harness.

I don't need no stinking harness...

It's all bound in my heart, mind, and soul... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Human reasoning is “beset with logical problems that include overemphasis on coincidence, distortion of the evidence, circular reasoning, use of anecdotes, ignorance of science and failures of logic,” he writes. And whatever these traits may say about acceptance of religion, they have a lot to do with public misunderstanding of science.

So, he concludes, “We have to both respect, if we can, the beliefs of others, and accept the responsibility to try and change them if the evidence for them is weak or scientifically improbable.”

Seems to me that these traits also have a lot to say about acceptance of science, philosophy, art, etc. They are universal. While I agree with his conclusion in broad terms, I cannot agree with that last statement as I have seen too many otherwise reputable people of all occupations and vocations suffer from the traits he described.

I believe that the only thing we can do is attempt to overcome them in ourselves. The old 'look to the beam in your own eye before attempting to remove the mote from my eye' thing.

We are nothing special. We are just another animal on this planet and the only thing that sets us apart is that we are intelligent. We created religon out of a psychological need. It is all so simple and logical. Yet many people fail to see it.

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We are nothing special. We are just another animal on this planet and the only thing that sets us apart is that we are intelligent. We created religon out of a psychological need. It is all so simple and logical. Yet many people fail to see it.

Uh oh. I hear pages in a "book" being flipped through furiously......

Uh oh. I hear pages in a "book" being flipped through furiously......

Naw... He's entitled to his 'opinion'... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

We are nothing special. We are just another animal on this planet and the only thing that sets us apart is that we are intelligent. We created religon out of a psychological need. It is all so simple and logical. Yet many people fail to see it.

We're special in the sense that our consciousness differs in both quality and kind compared to the other animals. We're not the strongest, fastest, largest, smallest, or most long lived but that one very special aspect of consciousness that is human makes us very special indeed.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

We are nothing special. We are just another animal on this planet and the only thing that sets us apart is that we are intelligent. We created religon out of a psychological need. It is all so simple and logical. Yet many people fail to see it.

I'd have to diagree with that. Two reasons, first of all the physical benfits found through devotion have to be more then just a coencadence and secondly, and I've said this before, you run an experament a billon times and 80% of the results are a varation of the same concept wouldn't you say that concept would be worth atleast some consideration as being true?

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/Central Florida Astronomical Society

Troy the brain is very powerful. What you said about the physical benefits that come through devotion, its the same as the placebo effect. And I'm not quite sure I understand what you are trying to say with your second reason.

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Troy the brain is very powerful. What you said about the physical benefits that come through devotion, its the same as the placebo effect. And I'm not quite sure I understand what you are trying to say with your second reason.

Recent studies that have been in the news of late show an actual NEGATIVE correlation between patients who are prayed over and ones that are not. These studies in other words suggest prayer made these subjects SICKER.

So which studies should we cherry pick out, Troy? Furthermore even if you chose to believe in 'the power of prayer' that does absolutely nothing to support the existence of a supernatural being.

Once the theist chooses to assert characteristics to his diety then the rational man and the critical atheist can address him. Until then noone has attempted to define their terms or express what it is they do or do not believe in. The notion of 'god' is always tied closely to a believer's ethical system and his emotions. Letting go of that belief because of its untenanableness is difficult to do much less even to question objectively.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Troy the brain is very powerful. What you said about the physical benefits that come through devotion, its the same as the placebo effect. And I'm not quite sure I understand what you are trying to say with your second reason.

Recent studies that have been in the news of late show an actual NEGATIVE correlation between patients who are prayed over and ones that are not. These studies in other words suggest prayer made these subjects SICKER.

So which studies should we cherry pick out, Troy? Furthermore even if you chose to believe in 'the power of prayer' that does absolutely nothing to support the existence of a supernatural being.

I had not read that study. If you could provide it I would be interested to read it... I don't see how it could make things worse. No, it indeed is not proof of God's exsistance but if we had a mathmatical code to prove God we wouldn't be having this debate now would we? To me all that it is, is another all be it small thing that builds my belifes.

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/Central Florida Astronomical Society

It can make things worse for perhaps the same reason it may make some people feel a bit better. Another poster already discussed some of this above.

I regret I can't point you to an article about it. It appeared on one of the major news outlets somewhat recently.

When you mentioned a mathematical formula to prove god what did you mean? How would it do that? But again, we've got the cart before the horse. What do you mean by the word, 'god' in the first place?

I can tell everyone here that I believe we will someday be able to prove the existence of the Unie. I can assert and assert that the Unie exists. You would rightfully demand that I explain what it is I mean when I speak of a Unie and what its attributes are. If this is not done then noone knows what anybody is talking about.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

A man and his wife were having an argument about who should brew the
coffee each morning...

The wife said, "You should do it, because you get up first, and then
we don't have to wait as long to get our coffee."

The husband said, "You are in charge of cooking around here, so you
should do it, because that is your job, and I can just wait for my
coffee."

The wife replies, "No, you should do it, and besides, it is in the
Bible that the man should do the coffee."

The husband replies, "I can't believe that! Show me!"

So she fetched the Bible, and opened to a section where it read at the
top of several pages -- "HEBREWS".

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me@rescam.org

When you mentioned a mathematical formula to prove god what did you mean? How would it do that? But again, we've got the cart before the horse. What do you mean by the word, 'god' in the first place?

I can tell everyone here that I believe we will someday be able to prove the existence of the Unie. I can assert and assert that the Unie exists. You would rightfully demand that I explain what it is I mean when I speak of a Unie and what its attributes are. If this is not done then noone knows what anybody is talking about.

I'll have to route around the interweb to see if I can find that artical, I've seen a lot of publication on the benifits and I'd be interested to see a counter argument.

I mean if we could add 2 and 2 and get God then we wouldn't need faith and it would just be science. God? when you get right down to it any one and anything can be god, but in this case I am largley refering to the Judao/Christian concept of God.

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/Central Florida Astronomical Society

Judao/Christian God.

Judao/Christian/Islamic God... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Judao/Christian God.

Judao/Christian/Islamic God... ;)

And once you ascribe particular characteristics to this god then I'll settle down to the task of addressing to you why those attributes are arbitrary at best.

A man and his wife were having an argument about who should brew the
coffee each morning...

The wife said, "You should do it, because you get up first, and then
we don't have to wait as long to get our coffee."

The husband said, "You are in charge of cooking around here, so you
should do it, because that is your job, and I can just wait for my
coffee."

The wife replies, "No, you should do it, and besides, it is in the
Bible that the man should do the coffee."

The husband replies, "I can't believe that! Show me!"

So she fetched the Bible, and opened to a section where it read at the
top of several pages -- "HEBREWS".

Hahahahahah.....

Judao/Christian God.

Judao/Christian/Islamic God... ;)

And once you ascribe particular characteristics to this god then I'll settle down to the task of addressing to you why those attributes are arbitrary at best.

Whats the difference between the way the different religion view God? Not much

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Can I interject a non-rhetorical question here?

Why (according to your beliefs) does prayer work?

The atheist answer is the placebo effect. If the culture believed that sleeping with one's feet pointing toward the burial site of one's ancestors would promote healing, then people who slept in such a position would enjoy a healing benefit similar to those who are prayed upon by family members.

The polytheist answer is that each willful being has some ability to influence the reality around him, which collides with the influences of all the other willful beings. If a person is conditioned to believe that "prayer" is more effective under limited conditions (prayer while in a meditative trance, prayer during certain ceremonies, prayer only to benefit other people, etc.) then that person's subconscious will hamstring any prayer effort that doesn't comport with the proper conditions. This implicitly includes the placebo effect above but also predicts that a church congregation's prayers would be more "effective" than a single person's.

It's the monotheist answer that interests me here. My understanding goes something like this: If God knows the worshipper's needs already, and God is perfect, then He should already have the world moving along a path that is in the long-run best interest of the worshipper. That assumes that God has His people's best interest at heart, of course. In any case, God's plan for the world is doubtlessly superior to whatever tweaking the worshipper wants.

Free will doesn't enter into this because a perfect Being with infinite wisdom would have either pre-knowledge of the future, or perfect powers of prediction which is pretty much the same thing.

While I invite any atheists or polytheists to clarify/extend/refute my explanations above, here I am really looking for the monotheist interpretation of prayer.

EDIT: typos

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No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.