You obviously havent seen fahrenhiet 911 or you would not believe that properly elected BS.

Oh that docudrama, I can't believe any sane person would think that a credible source. I don't think even PZ would touch that one.

It is truly scary how easy it is to manipulate some people. Fortunately this particular person is not a US citizen and thus can't impact the US's 2008 election! Unfortunately, plenty of US citizens are just as gullible.

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No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

You obviously havent seen fahrenhiet 911 or you would not believe that properly elected BS.

Oh that docudrama, I can't believe any sane person would think that a credible source. I don't think even PZ would touch that one.

I would have to agree, along with Bush's recent press conference. "The next president"...GMAB.

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I would have to agree, along with Bush's recent press conference. The next president...GMAB.

Not accusing you specifically of doing this, but I hear over and over again "What is the exit strategy?" My response is usually a variation on "What was the exit startegy for World War II? The exit strategy was to do what was needed to win, nothing more and nothing less. No artificial milestones about troop withdrawls and the like. In fact, there are US troops in both Japan and Germany to this day.

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No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

I would have to agree, along with Bush's recent press conference. The next president...GMAB.

Not accusing you specifically of doing this, but I hear over and over again "What is the exit strategy?" My response is usually a variation on "What was the exit startegy for World War II? The exit strategy was to do what was needed to win, nothing more and nothing less. No artificial milestones about troop withdrawls and the like. In fact, there are US troops in both Japan and Germany to this day.

There were several conferences held during WWII regarding the exit strategy among them Yalta. Right or wrong they did formulate a plan. Bush has admitted that he's going to dump it on the next guy.

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There were several conferences held during WWII regarding the exit strategy among them Yalta. Right or wrong they did formulate a plan. Bush has admitted that he's going to dump it on the next guy.

Actually, Yalta and other summit meetings were meant to discuss war strategy, and eventually, how to divide up the world after the war. There were no plans to withdraw troops on any set schedule, like the administration's opponents want to do now in Iraq. Indeed, all the winners in WWII kept troops in the defeated countries for years (and as Octagon said, many troops are still in those countries 60 years later, and after decades of stable local government control).

[Edit]: Here's a great example of spin: "Bush has admitted that he's going to dump it on the next guy." What he said was that the war will likely last longer than his term in office--and he has been saying this for years. Did Kennedy "dump" Vietnam on Johnson? Did Johnson "dump" it on Nixon? Your characterization is unfair and inaccurate.

There were several conferences held during WWII regarding the exit strategy among them Yalta. Right or wrong they did formulate a plan. Bush has admitted that he's going to dump it on the next guy.

Actually, Yalta and other summit meetings were meant to discuss war strategy, and eventually, how to divide up the world after the war. There were no plans to withdraw troops on any set schedule, like the administration's opponents want to do now in Iraq. Indeed, all the winners in WWII kept troops in the defeated countries for years (and as Octagon said, many troops are still in those countries 60 years later, and after decades of stable local government control).

[Edit]: Here's a great example of spin: "Bush has admitted that he's going to dump it on the next guy." What he said was that the war will likely last longer than his term in office--and he has been saying this for years. Did Kennedy "dump" Vietnam on Johnson? Did Johnson "dump" it on Nixon? Your characterization is unfair and inaccurate.

Johnson did "dump" Viet Nam on the next president. Remember, he didn't run for office again, so that was the same effect. For the Iraq war to carry on until the next president is installed is unconscionable under any circumstance, especially with the way the situation has and will develope in Iraq.

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Johnson did "dump" Viet Nam on the next president. Remember, he didn't run for office again, so that was the same effect. For the Iraq war to carry on until the next president is installed is unconscionable under any circumstance, especially with the way the situation has and will develope in Iraq.

If you are saying this because you oppose the war on moral grounds, then fine, you are saying all war is unconscionable. But if you are saying that no President in office when a war starts should allow the war to continue beyond his/her term . . . well, that is an unsupportable argument. (Unless you are saying Bush should be extended in office until the war on terror is over.)

Hahaha now i know i am right the fools of the establisment always attack personaly when they cannot argue the facts.

Truer words were never spoken... ;)

(Unless you are saying Bush should be extended in office until the war on terror is over.)

Stop... Your frightening the children... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Johnson did "dump" Viet Nam on the next president. Remember, he didn't run for office again, so that was the same effect. For the Iraq war to carry on until the next president is installed is unconscionable under any circumstance, especially with the way the situation has and will develope in Iraq.

If you are saying this because you oppose the war on moral grounds, then fine, you are saying all war is unconscionable. But if you are saying that no President in office when a war starts should allow the war to continue beyond his/her term . . . well, that is an unsupportable argument. (Unless you are saying Bush should be extended in office until the war on terror is over.)

Perish the thought about Bush staying on. But I consider it his mess, and he should clean it up. First thing he needs to do is fire Rumsfeldt and Rove, then put Chenney on a very short leash.

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Perish the thought about Bush staying on. But I consider it his mess, and he should clean it up. First thing he needs to do is fire Rumsfeldt and Rove, then put Chenney on a very short leash.

I do agree that the President on duty when the country is attacked by a foreign force (his "mess" as you put it) should indeed "clean it up". That is what the war on terror is doing. I get the feeling that you don't like Bush himself, and thus you don't like his efforts to do just that--clean up the "mess".

However, he was properly elected, twice, and he is the commander in chief, so unless he is removed for high crimes or misdemeanors pursuant to the Constitution, he is the man to clean up the "mess". Now, if the war continues beyond his term limit, I hope someone gets in office who won't give away the store, so to speak, like so many Democrats seem to want to do. (That's not to say that there aren't many qualified, sensible Democratic candidates, but they aren't making much noise right now.)

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Red Bull Air Racing

Gas price by zip at Seti

Perish the thought about Bush staying on. But I consider it his mess, and he should clean it up. First thing he needs to do is fire Rumsfeldt and Rove, then put Chenney on a very short leash.

I do agree that the President on duty when the country is attacked by a foreign force (his "mess" as you put it) should indeed "clean it up". That is what the war on terror is doing. I get the feeling that you don't like Bush himself, and thus you don't like his efforts to do just that--clean up the "mess".

However, he was properly elected, twice, and he is the commander in chief, so unless he is removed for high crimes or misdemeanors pursuant to the Constitution, he is the man to clean up the "mess". Now, if the war continues beyond his term limit, I hope someone gets in office who won't give away the store, so to speak, like so many Democrats seem to want to do. (That's not to say that there aren't many qualified, sensible Democratic candidates, but they aren't making much noise right now.)

You're partially correct...the Dem's need to get their act together.

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Will the same happen to Saddam?

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Red Bull Air Racing

Gas price by zip at Seti

Will the same happen to Saddam?

Circus Trial Cafe
I reserve the right to use that one in the future.

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me@rescam.org

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No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

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Three members of Christan Peacemaker Teams had been taken hostage in Iraq, and here is the group's press release about their rescue by American and British military forces:

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CPT Statement: CPTers Released
(link to original)

23 March 2006

Our hearts are filled with joy today as we heard that Harmeet Singh Sooden, Jim Loney and Norman Kember have been safely released in Baghdad. Christian Peacemaker Teams rejoices with their families and friends at the expectation of their return to their loved ones and community. Together we have endured uncertainty, hope, fear, grief and now joy during the four months since they were abducted in Baghdad.

We rejoice in the return of Harmeet Sooden. He has been willing to put his life on the line to promote justice in Iraq and Palestine as a young man newly committed to active peacemaking.

We rejoice in the return of Jim Loney. He has cared for the marginalized and oppressed since childhood, and his gentle, passionate spirit has been an inspiration to people near and far.

We rejoice in the return of Norman Kember. He is a faithful man, an elder and mentor to many in his 50 years of peacemaking, a man prepared to pay the cost.

We remember with tears Tom Fox, whose body was found in Baghdad on March 9, 2006, after three months of captivity with his fellow peacemakers. We had longed for the day when all four men would be released together. Our gladness today is made bittersweet by the fact that Tom is not alive to join in the celebration. However, we are confident that his spirit is very much present in each reunion.

Harmeet, Jim and Norman and Tom were in Iraq to learn of the struggles facing the people in that country. They went, motivated by a passion for justice and peace to live out a nonviolent alternative in a nation wracked by armed conflict. They knew that their only protection was in the power of the love of God and of their Iraqi and international co-workers. We believe that the illegal occupation of Iraq by Multinational Forces is the root cause of the insecurity which led to this kidnapping and so much pain and suffering in Iraq. The occupation must end.

Today, in the face of this joyful news, our faith compels us to love our enemies even when they have committed acts which caused great hardship to our friends and sorrow to their families. In the spirit of the prophetic nonviolence that motivated Jim, Norman, Harmeet and Tom to go to Iraq, we refuse to yield to a spirit of vengeance. We give thanks for the compassionate God who granted our friends courage and who sustained their spirits over the past months. We pray for strength and courage for ourselves so that, together, we can continue the nonviolent struggle for justice and peace.

Throughout these difficult months, we have been heartened by messages of concern for our four colleagues from all over the world. We have been especially moved by the gracious outpouring of support from Muslim brothers and sisters in the Middle East, Europe, and North America. That support continues to come to us day after day. We pray that Christians throughout the world will, in the same spirit, call for justice and for respect for the human rights of the thousands of Iraqis who are being detained illegally by the U.S. and British forces occupying Iraq.

During these past months, we have tasted of the pain that has been the daily bread of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. Why have our loved ones been taken? Where are they being held? Under what conditions? How are they? Will they be released? When?

With Tom’s death, we felt the grief of losing a beloved friend. Today, we rejoice in the release of our friends Harmeet, Jim and Norman. We continue to pray for a swift and joyful homecoming for the many Iraqis and internationals who long to be reunited with their families. We renew our commitment to work for an end to the war and the occupation of Iraq as a way to continue the witness of Tom Fox. We trust in God’s compassionate love to show us the way.

Living through the many emotions of this day, we remain committed to the words of Jim Loney, who wrote:

"With God’s abiding kindness, we will love even our enemies.
With the love of Christ, we will resist all evil.
With God’s unending faithfulness, we will work to build the beloved community."
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The sharp-eyed reader will note that there is no mention of a military rescue whatsoever. Lies of omission are still sins, people.

(edit for typo)

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No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.