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That's rich..... (and no, tom, I have no regrets for referring to you as a jerk .....none at all)
....

Alright asshole, that's a friend of mine you are insulting and I do not like my friends being insulted by braindead, moron, wannabee, politicians such as you, or anyone for that matter!

If you're not going to answer Tom's questions directly, without linking to the dribble you find on these disreputible websites, then shut the hell up!

I know I'm going to catch hell from some other friends of mine but right now, I feel I want my feelings known by you. Put up or shut up!!!! If all you can do is insult, then DON'T! I'm sick of reading the garbage you post!

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CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

....

....

....
That's rich..... (and no, tom, I have no regrets for referring to you as a jerk .....none at all)
....

Alright asshole, that's a friend of mine you are insulting and I do not like my friends being insulted by braindead, moron, wannabee, politicians such as you, or anyone for that matter!

If you're not going to answer Tom's questions directly, without linking to the dribble you find on these disreputible websites, then shut the hell up!

I know I'm going to catch hell from some other friends of mine but right now, I feel I want my feelings known by you. Put up or shut up!!!! If all you can do is insult, then DON'T! I'm sick of reading the garbage you post!

I have no problem referring to you as a jerk either....

Now you can deal with it on a one on one level.....

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You're so easily flustered, ....it's truly a thing of astonishment....

Now, I'm just lying?

I corrected myself, and concluded that you were not lying, just that you could not read; and you have confirmed that fact again.

Try any and all subterfuge but actually come up with any reference to back up your claims that you assert.

I backed up my claim that you don't understand what you read by showing another post where I told you I never said there was "no problem" (now you are back pedalling on that phrase).

More attempts to deflect from the issue at hand..... no response to the request for anything which would back up your opinion that the professionals are so wrong or that they are making idiotic statements.....

Now, these people are just 'political hacks'? (Gasp, gasp, .......)

I can't wait for your next indignant reply, tom. It's great entertainment.... light on substance but full of fury.....

I suppose everyone who doesn't agree with you is merely a political hack, eh?

Having never said there was "no problem", there is no need for me to provide experts who say there is "no problem", as you asked. You said this in your post #113355, "Still waiting for those professionals which back up your assertions that there is no problem."

I said your so-called "experts" were political hacks from both parties. Neither of them offered solutions and they disagreed even on the direction a solution might take. So, CW and I were right that you have not provided any solution yourself, even in your link. Now you expect me to provide solutions to problems that the Congress is wrestling with? I never said I could, I simply showed that your post was misleading on the severity of the problem. But, I have little hope that you will understand this post, as you seem to not understand much of anything written in English. Anyway, at least you are being entertained, I wish, though, that you were being educated.

I know I'm going to catch hell from some other friends of mine but right now, I feel I want my feelings known by you.

It's all right, Siran. It's all I can do to keep from pulling (what's left of my) hair out from trying to wade through Pauly-poo's illogic. It must be ten times harder for you.

You're so easily flustered, ....it's truly a thing of astonishment....

Now, I'm just lying?

I corrected myself, and concluded that you were not lying, just that you could not read; and you have confirmed that fact again.

Try any and all subterfuge but actually come up with any reference to back up your claims that you assert.

I backed up my claim that you don't understand what you read by showing another post where I told you I never said there was "no problem" (now you are back pedalling on that phrase).

More attempts to deflect from the issue at hand..... no response to the request for anything which would back up your opinion that the professionals are so wrong or that they are making idiotic statements.....

Now, these people are just 'political hacks'? (Gasp, gasp, .......)

I can't wait for your next indignant reply, tom. It's great entertainment.... light on substance but full of fury.....

I suppose everyone who doesn't agree with you is merely a political hack, eh?

Having never said there was "no problem", there is no need for me to provide experts who say there is "no problem", as you asked. You said this in your post #113355, "Still waiting for those professionals which back up your assertions that there is no problem."

I said your so-called "experts" were political hacks from both parties. Neither of them offered solutions and they disagreed even on the direction a solution might take. So, CW and I were right that you have not provided any solution yourself, even in your link. Now you expect me to provide solutions to problems that the Congress is wrestling with? I never said I could, I simply showed that your post was misleading on the severity of the problem. But, I have little hope that you will understand this post, as you seem to not understand much of anything written in English. Anyway, at least you are being entertained, I wish you were being educated.

blah blah blah, ....... have it your way tom,

You think you have an issue you have to 'win'?


Show me some references that show the 'severity' of the problem is mistated in the articles I posted.....

As I explained, your 'simple math' does not address any number of related subsets of the forecasting..... maybe now you can proceed with showing us some analysis that matches your assertions......

Happy hunting....... (and no questionable links or opinions from political hacks, ....right?)

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"A picture is worth a thousand words.".

Even in the Flame thread.

blah blah blah, ....... have it your way tom,

You think you have an issue you have to 'win'?

Show me some references that show the 'severity' of the problem is mistated in the articles I posted.....

As I explained, your 'simple math' does not address any number of related subsets of the forecasting..... maybe now you can proceed with showing us some analysis that matches your assertions......

Happy hunting....... (and no questionable links or opinions from political hacks, ....right?)

[Edit]: This is a fine example of sputtering, Pauly-poo. You have incomplete sentences, incomplete ideas, unrelated ideas and no rhetorical structure. Ah, well, here is my response, for what it's worth. [End Edit]

"Blah, blah, blah" the most telling thing you have said. It describes your writing style and at the same time, it shows your level of understanding the written word.

"Related subsets of . . . forecasting"? What the hell does that mean? My analysis was simple: the scare numbers your link contained aren't so scary when put in context--and that simply means showing the numbers as they can be dealt with, over the next 2-3 decades. I don't need an economist to put those numbers into context, just someone who understands third grade math. Why do you think this is so complicated?

And I'm not going to link to sites that contain the ideas of "political hacks" because it's not necessary to link to any site. The problem gets manageable (I didn't say it goes away) if you look at it in the context of the time available to deal with it. I know you won't do it, but read my response to you and try to understand the words that are there. Don't make up things, then tell me I said them, and then claim I am wrong.

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response to you

I've read that, tom.

What I asked for was some analysis by any other respectable leading economic professionals which even hint that your opinion is what should be considered the best opinion to hold.

That the 'severity' of the problem, (as you say), is not so dire. That the 'problem' is overstated.

Where's all that put up or shut up business? Is the double standard in effect again?

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....

....

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I have no problem referring to you as a jerk either....

Now you can deal with it on a one on one level.....

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CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

Oh, how mortifying...... I shall be forever crestfallen....... (not.)

Feel free to try for something with more impact, siran.....

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I've read that, tom.

What I asked for was some analysis by any other respectable leading economic professionals which even hint that your opinion is what should be considered the best opinion to hold.

That the 'severity' of the problem, (as you say), is not so dire. That the 'problem' is overstated.

Where's all that put up or shut up business? Is the double standard in effect again?

Well, this is pleasant, Paul. It's the first time in a great while that you have addressed me somewhat civilly. Thank you.

But I have to say, that my argument is simply that 10 is less than 100; just as $348 (the monthly amount) is less than $150,000 (35 years from now). I tried to show in various ways that the huge numbers that made that article so sensational were not so insurmountable when broken down into smaller steps--steps that may be taken advantage of because (even) your article says that the problem grows that large in 25 or 35 years, depending on whether it's the budget or Social Security (though they're related).

No experts are needed to prove what I was saying. I was just pointing out that the problem can be solved in the time needed.

I've read that, tom.

What I asked for was some analysis by any other respectable leading economic professionals which even hint that your opinion is what should be considered the best opinion to hold.

That the 'severity' of the problem, (as you say), is not so dire. That the 'problem' is overstated.

Where's all that put up or shut up business? Is the double standard in effect again?

Well, this is pleasant, Paul. It's the first time in a great while that you have addressed me somewhat civilly. Thank you.

But I have to say, that my argument is simply that 10 is less than 100; just as $348 (the monthly amount) is less than $150,000 (35 years from now). I tried to show in various ways that the huge numbers that made that article so sensational were not so insurmountable when broken down into smaller steps--steps that may be taken advantage of because (even) your article says that the problem grows that large in 25 or 35 years, depending on whether it's the budget or Social Security (though they're related).

No experts are needed to prove what I was saying. I was just pointing out that the problem can be solved in the time available.

the problem can be solved in the time available.

Well, I had hoped, after all the talk about my links being so disreputable and the economists being discredited as stating idiotic pronuouncements or that they were just disreputable political hacks, you might provide some other view of some leading economists which may bolster your assessment.

I don't think they, or I, have stated that 'the problem' couldn't be solved with the proper controls and a different policy ........

That solution is probably attainable if we are willing to acknowledge it and take the steps necessary.

Congress has shown no willingness to seriously address the issue, Bush's policies have not proven to come close to what he's promised, and the future, near or far, shows no sign of providing much in the way of change. (except maybe an exacerbation of the problem)

We can't keep cutting federal revenue, spending on credit and changing our tax laws to benefit those who would take our jobs and manufacturing out of the country.

To 'solve' the problem, drastic cuts will have to be made and taxes will have to be raised considerably.

Before either of those things will happen, people have to wake up to the reality of where we are and what it will take to get back to fiscal responsibility...... The political 'will' to make the changes has to come from the general population, the politicians won't spontaneously decide to lead that change in political will.

Like I've said, I see no reputable analysis which suggests otherwise..... Ignoring or attempting to de-emphasize the extent of the hole we are digging is not going to lead to any action.

If you've seen such opposing analysis from the economic community, I'd be more than willing to look at it........ I'm not seeing it anywhere. (but I am seeing more and more evidence of the shakiness of our position if we don't act emphatically and soon.

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Oh, how mortifying...... I shall be forever crestfallen....... (not.)
Feel free to try for something with more impact, siran.....

Ok....

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CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

Sorry, too weak.....1/2 point for effort but no huge impact yet.....

(.....also, the current attempt maybe too esoteric for some others to follow)

When I find the time, I'll have to provide some examples for you....

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Sorry, too weak.....1/2 point for effort but no huge impact yet.....

(.....also, the current attempt maybe too esoteric for some others to follow)

When I find the time, I'll have to provide some examples for you....

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?

Careful now, captim.....

Giving someone the impression that I may possess the inate ability to cut the occassional rug may undermine your intent.....

I must say though, that it appears the ladies are riveted by my footwork in that image....

I might even save that one, just to show someone that in my earlier years I was able to dance the jig....... er, was that dance the jug?

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I am glad you like it Paul,

The jug was the difficult part,,,,

I need more Photos of you though...

A good Profile shot would be nice....

I have one of you and the Dogs but, Indy
won't let me use it!

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A while ago, I quit posting/reading much in the Cafe because of all the guff going on down here. I thought I would check back and see if things had gotten better. What was my first thought after doing so? Jeez, is all this crap still going on?

Mr. Zimmerman's posts give a clear view of his objectives. Namely, to push his political and economic viewpoints without risking even the remote possibility of being proved incorrect by actually discussing the subject in any meaningful way. Earlier in this thread he called for his opponents to list sources from 'professionals'. Don't bother, it won't do any good. When you do produce them, he will just insult both you and them then proceed to ignore it. Mr. Zimmerman's posts present the impression that his point of view is that his personal opinion and quoted experts are 100% correct, and that any opposition's personal opinion and quoted experts are 100% incorrect. Mr. Zimmerman presents the appearance of being a 'True Believer!(tm)' in what he spouts off on, and as everyone knows (or at least should know) you can't successfully argue a 'True Believer!(tm)' off of his position, no matter how skilled you are at rhetoric, and how verifibly true your sources are. There may be some elements of truth to what Mr. Zimmerman says. But, then again, there may not. It is not his viewpoints that are offensive to me (and quite likely many others here, though not all), it is his method of argument that is offensive.

I know that I am likely gonna get unloaded on by Mr. Zimmerman (again) for this, and quite likely branded a troll, but this is what I feel. Heck, this post may even get moderated, but the way that Mr. Zimmerman argues his points gets old mighty fast. I seem to recall that, right before Mr. Zimmerman showed up, you ladies and gentlemen successfully got rid of another sort of 'True Believer!(tm)' of the bible-thumping sort. Perhaps treating Mr. Zimmerman in a way similar to what you did to WW unless/until he becomes more open to a fair discussion of the issues (or gets bored posting unread monologs and leaves) might work. Again, it is not the subjects Mr. Zimmerman posts that I object to. Also it is not his position of said issues. It is Mr. Zimmerman's intellectual bigottry and snobishness. It has been my experience in the over 40 years of my life that people that claim to have The Truth!(tm) almost invariably do not. Mr. Zimmerman needs to be a little less cock-sure of his own positions and a little less dismissive of other's positions.

Lastly, I think that Celtic Wolf's reference to the Anime series 'Full Metal Alchemy' and its rule of Equivalent Exchange is right on the money. Since Mr. Zimmerman so evidently enjoys the priviledge of posting here, ethics and fairness dictate that he should 'pay his fare' by putting at least one computer towards crunching this project. I know that when he joined, he claimed that he couldn't due to his computers were using an older version of Mac OSX that wasn't supported. But surely, in all these months, he has been able to either upgrade OS versions, find a client ported to the older version he uses (I have seen them up for download), or get a cheap PC with Windoze that was capable of running BOINC (there are NEW ones available for under $500 that do nicely, surely he could find something used for around $200).

Mr. Zimmerman, I am asking you to please stop freeloading and pay your dues. Your posts indicate that you lean towards the Democrats (or at least away from the Rebuplicans) and therefore must enjoy being taxed. Consider this just another, garden variety, tax. :P

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https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.