> Which one of us is more selfish? That would be the one without a job because
> he's to "good" for anything less than his dream job even though he just
> admitted to having other skills.
>

Once again you take a phrase out of context and inaccurately respond to it. I choose to pick and choose the contracts I work because I can afford to do so. I don't need to work a job where I see the people I support as being less them me. I don't collect public money, because I live off my own wealth. I pay more in taxes annually then you earn in one year. Since I am sure the agency that you work for is federally funded I am threfore paying your salary as well.

I am not the selfish one because I give back to my community without taking away from it. I do not claim to be helping my fellow man in one breath and in the next telling people how vile they are for being supported by the very people you work for.

What you are is hypocritical and contradictory.. In one breath you show distane for people flipping burgers and in the next you proclaim people should do whatever it takes not to be supported by the government.

Enjoy your world. I am glad you are not in mine...

---

I'd rather speak my mind because it hurts too much to bite my tongue.

American Spirit BBQ Proudly Serving those that courageously defend freedom.

Double post

---

I'd rather speak my mind because it hurts too much to bite my tongue.

American Spirit BBQ Proudly Serving those that courageously defend freedom.

>You need to learn to be more politically correct, sir!

LAF, excuse me, would you prefer disabled?

> You seem to me, to be of the opinion, that you are better than
> everyone else.

Well, at least it's not the first "mentally challenged" thing you've said to me today.

How about all the cracks they made about me, my job, my religious beliefs, and my political beliefs?

Or in typical liberal (hypocritical) fashion, did you ignore the comments of your peers?

>You seem to exude that type of thought process.

Betterthan being thought a sympathizer. People pull their own weight when they are around me. It even got you off the couch and involved in the conversation, with nothing more than stating my opinion and giving facts to support them.

> As for the "majority of Americans", the majority of that majority is
> from other countries.

Last time I checked, our entire country was built by people immigrating from foreign lands....but you know what? Each and every single one of those votes was cast by an American citizen.

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<a href="http://www.brainsmashr.com"><img src="http://www.brainsmashr.com/signature.gif"><img src="http://brainsmashr.com/boinc/counter_big.php?id=305369&amp;project=seti&amp;ctx=white&amp;cva=red&amp;cbo=white&amp;cbg=black&amp;linethickness=2"></a>

> Once again you take a phrase out of context and inaccurately respond to it. I
> choose to pick and choose the contracts I work because I can afford to do so.

Of course, with my Social Security payments that you intend to finish your life on.

> I don't need to work a job where I see the people I support as being less them
> me.

I never said that, it's your ignorant (as in uninformed) opinion. The term I used was less fortunate....like you described your parents.

> more in taxes annually then you earn in one year.

So what, you're also planning on taking a rather large portion of it back. That's called an Indian Giver.....but I'm not being PC again, am I?

> I am not the selfish one because I give back to my community without taking
> away from it.

You don't have a job, you're not contributing, AND you are PLANNING on receiving SSI, as in taking from the community. I may be wearing rose colored glasses, but at least they don't blind me to my own actions.

> I do not claim to be helping my fellow man in one breath and in
> the next telling people how vile they are for being supported by the very
> people you work for.

I work for the state of Louisiana, not folks on welfare.....but facts are facts, if you are sitting on the couch planning to leech off the government instead of working and trying to prevent it, then there IS something wrong.

> What you are is hypocritical and contradictory.. In one breath you show
> distane for people flipping burgers and in the next you proclaim people should
> do whatever it takes not to be supported by the government.

A car is better than no car, a house is better than no house, a JOB is better than no Job. Sorry, I didn't realize I would have to spell this all out for you. I assumed you were capable of more than calling people names....but there I go again treating you like an equal, when according to you, I don't.

> Enjoy your world. I am glad you are not in mine.

I do, and the feeling is mutual, but then again, you couldn't survive in my world. O, but I forgot, crime isn't higher in the projects than every where else, I'm thinking unfairly again, huh?

---

<a href="http://www.brainsmashr.com"><img src="http://www.brainsmashr.com/signature.gif"><img src="http://brainsmashr.com/boinc/counter_big.php?id=305369&amp;project=seti&amp;ctx=white&amp;cva=red&amp;cbo=white&amp;cbg=black&amp;linethickness=2"></a>

[pre](Thanks Tiny Tim.)

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Account frozen...

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sadly, Your welcome

---

> >....
> Your country spawned quite possibly the most "evil" man the world has ever
> known, our country freed Europe from his tyranny. We didn't do that by caring
> about what he wanted, we did that by going in and kicking butt like we knew
> that we could.
>

Ok, I'm going to start picking apart your flawed logic, starting with this. And, this just goes to show your ignorance.

Hitler was Austrian and not German.

My Time: Sunday, 30 January 2005 - 06:40 AM --800 (Pacific Standard Time)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

>
> > I was wondering who "Tyrone" was and where else he was mentioned or was
> this
> > simply a reference to black people as the majority epitomised by a name?
> >
> > Just wondering?
>
> That's funny, I did not realize you could determine race from a name picked
> out of thin air.
>
> However, if you would like to discuss race, the Department of Justice and the
> FBI Uniform Crime report do break American crime stats down by race. However,
> I do not see how that subject would be beneficial to this thread or Boinc in
> general.
>

Ah, and yet I see that you can exude real logic when the need arises.... Hmmmm....

My Time: Sunday, 30 January 2005 - 06:44 AM --800 (Pacific Standard Time)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

> Again, what's wrong with plaining for your golden years so you do not have to
> get on old people welfare?

Social Security is not welfare for "old people" or otherwise. It is a retirement that we pay into from the day
we start working and continues until we're unable to work full time or any time at all. And, there is nothing wrong
with "planning for the golden years".

> It's almost like you guys are looking forward to being a burden on society.

Collecting social security is not being a burden on society. Being on welfare is! I pay into SS
and when I retire, I collect what I paid in. I do not collect what you pay in.

> I mean, just because I pay insurance every month, that doesn't mean I'm going
> to wreck my car. I pay medical insurance every month, that doesn't mean i'm
> going to chop off my hand so I can collect. Likewise, I pay into Social
> Security every month, but as with the examples above, I'm going to do my best
> to avoid that situation as well.

So, you're just going to throw your hard earned money away. It's there for you to collect on, do so.

> What's the worst that could happen, other than you being self sufficient your
> entire adult life with a net to fall back on ONLY if you are unable to support
> yourself.

That is what social secrity is for.

My Time: Sunday, 30 January 2005 - 07:02 AM --800 (Pacific Standard Time)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

> >....
>
> However, it seems to me that you DO still intend to collect(I don't expect to
> rely and depend on SS alone) regardless of the need.

I plan on collecting and I will disclose why later....

> The problem is 99% of the population feel they deserve it, and intend to
> collect, regardless of their need. heck, I even work with a guy who started
> collecting at 62.....and he's even still got a JOB!!!

Yep, I'm among those 99%ers. The other 1% are the George Bushes, Bill Gates', Donald Trumps.... Tell me. What happens to
the money they pay into SS?

> It's legalized abuse, plain and simple, and that's why the program is going
> down the tubes.

The "abuse" you speak of is our very own government tapping into the funds of the SS for their own purposes, such
as giving it to other countries.

> As far as economic trends, if you live according to a budget, then the
> inflection of the economy shouldn't make a differnce to you. If you planned
> properly in life, then you should already own a house, car, and most other
> high priced items essential to life in 2005. 20% of your income on groceries
> is still 20% even if the price of goods and services increases....you'll just
> have to tighten your belt much like you probably do right now when items
> increase in price......like gasoline for instance.

Since when is owning high priced items "essential" to life in 2005 or any year? I do not see owning a house as "essential"
to life. Owning a car is a necessity and I guess may be considered "essential". But, then there's public transportation, but I would
find it hard to get plywood or airplane parts, for my job, and carry them on the bus. Is it "essential" to life for Bill Gates to own
a "castle" on a lakefront? No, it is not!

Here's why I'm going to collect SS: I don't make 6 figures a year. I don't even make the high 5 figures a year. With my regular
job in the General Aviation industry and a side job (hobby) in computers, I'm lucky to make 23 gross a year. Try buying a $450,000
dollar house on that! Oh, I could go to school, sure. But, I have a learning impediment since I was in school as a kid. I cannot
learn by listening to someone talk about something. I learn best by "hands on". There are very, very few trades (that I am even
interested in) that can afford to let a person learn it by doing it.

And, I do my best to live within a budget.

My Time: Sunday, 30 January 2005 - 07:49 AM --800 (Pacific Standard Time)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

My how this thread has gone downhill... WAY downhill.

It started out as a discussion of something important: the financial health of the Social Security system of the USA. Then, it turned (predictably) into political partisanship over what should or should not be done to 'save' it, if necessary. Now it is nothing more than an argument over who is better than who.

1. I am better than you because I work for a living (the righties). or
2. I am better than you because I am more compassionate than you, and demonstrate it by my support for Govt. Program 'X' (the lefties).

The last number of posts remind me of nothing more than an elementary-school 'my daddy can beat up your daddy' insult-fest.

Lets either let this thread die (most likely the best choice, since I see little chance of agreement on anything here), or let us return to a calm, rational discussion of the original topic.

From reading the earlier posts on this thread, I see two main topics for discussion, each with several sub-topics.

I. Will the current Social Security program in the USA experience trouble with its current funding scheme either in the short-term or the long term?
A. If so, what needs to be done to fix it, and when do we need to do it?
B. If not, do we need to change the system anyway in order to make it more fair (in some way or another)?

II. Do we need a govenrment-mandated system of retirement-savings in the USA? If so (and I think most people will say yes to this), what form should it take:
A. Govt. run, pooled money, pay-as-you-go system (what we have today).
B. Govt. run, individual accounts, where your OWN benefit comes from your OWN contributions (what Social Security was *supposed* to be when FDR sold it to the American public. However, once the American public agreed to it, it was not implemented this way).
C. A combination public and private system where your private contributions are subtracted from your public ones.
D. A combination public and private system, where your private contributions are *in addition to* your public ones -- In other words, expand the concept of IRAs. Sort of a mandatoiry national 401k for everyone on top of the current SocSec system.
E. A totally private system, with only minimal govt. regulation as to the quality of investment (with a graduated phaseout of the public one).

There is plenty of room for civil discussion on these two points, without resort to either direct quotation from the D's or R's 'playbook'(the party line), or resorting to the "I'm better than you because..." crap. Give your OWN opinions. Do research on what YOU believe. Support your OWN arguments. Educate YOURSELVES on this extremely important issue. And not just citizens of the USA either. This issue will likely face you in your own country, sooner or later. Be prepared to face it when it does.

Once you have formed an informed opinion on the subject, and can support it, those of us in the USA as voting-age citizens should write a letter (actual paper letter, e-mail and phone calls are not given as much weight) stating what you support (and why) to your own Representative and Senators in Washington, DC. regardless of whether or not you support what Bush the Younger is proposing to do.

> The only "problem" I have with SS is that it is Social Aid, and like ALL forms
> of social aid, it's designed to make you dependent on the system with very
> little hope of ever getting off once you get "on".

Contrary to your belief, SS is not an "aid", it is security for an individual when they reach the age where they can
no longer be an efficient worker. Case in point: A couple weeks ago, the owner of the company I work for terminated an employee, not
for lacking work skills, not for making mistakes in his work, not because he was a slacker and screwed off all day.... He was
let go because he was in his 60s and moved slower than the younger workers.

> MY solution would be 100% elimination, but that's one of the reason's
> we live in a Democracy :)

Your solution, in a word, sucks! Elimination of SS? Where's your compassion for people less fortunate than yourself?

My Time: Sunday, 30 January 2005 - 08:30 AM --800 (Pacific Standard Time)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

> >....
> I call it insurance, as in something you are not forced by the
> government to pay for me. It comes out of my pocket by my choice AND I
> can cancel my payments at any time without suffering legal reprocussions.

Do you really think that your "insurance" is going to support you when you are no longer efficient enough to be in the work force?
[Reality check....] Insurance is for those times when you become incapacitated and cannot work to support yourself. And, you cannot
collect "life insurance" when your dead.

> >....
>....
> >May you never run short of something to drive a nail into.
>
> It's called a trade, something I earned in addition to a college degree. Even
> if every tree on the planet died and wood became a thing of the past, I'll
> STILL have my education to fall back on, that I paid for through
> student loans (still over 17k in debt)

So, you're not putting your education to good use by working in whatever field it is you learned? Hmmmm.... Can you not work in that
field, make more money, pay off your student loans quicker and fall back on your other trade if need be?

> >And I believe, that there are some things, the 'society' as system of
> people >living together have to organize somehow
>
> Of course you do, German's are socialists. I realize you don't follow that
> form of government anymore, but it's still in your heart.....look at what you
> just stated. Paraphrased, it reads "Society needs to help the individual,
> rather than the individual needing to help himself".

You seem to be very adept at putting unsaid words into another individuals mouth. I see no indication, whatsoever, in the
authors quote, of what you "paraphrased".

> Giving someone an equal share when they clearly are not equal is Communisum,
> which is basically 1 step away from Socialism, therefore I will never
> willingly support any type of Social Aid.

First off, use a spell checker or dictionary and spell words correctly. "Communisum" is spelled Communism. I don't subscribe
to the idea, but there is a certain logic to communism and communalism. So, you're not "willing" to pay into a system that has been
designed to help you when you are no longer efficient enough to support yourself? Hmmmm....

My Time: Sunday, 30 January 2005 - 09:06 AM --800 (Pacific Standard Time)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

> The obvious reply is that we are not all Christian and you are being
> foolish if you think we are. Personally, I don't worship any imaginary
> beings.
>

Well, who would have thought.... I actually concur with you on this one.

My Time: Sunday, 30 January 2005 - 09:15 AM --800 (Pacific Standard Time)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

tim,

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:_d_W_3nTiN8J:story.news.yahoo.com/news%3Ftmpl%3Dstory%26u%3D/ap/20050113/ap_on_go_pr_wh/social_security_roosevelt+roosevelt+ap+news+grandson&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:_h_QbPAvC9oJ:news.findlaw.com/ap_stories/a/w/1151/1-13-2005/20050113131502_08.html+roosevelt+ap+news+grandson&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

---

> >....
>....
> Doesn't matter if the roses die, I'm prepared.

Nobody is that prepared. Can you tell me that you are prepared for an event like the tsunami? You cannot even be prepared
enough to be able to survive such an event, let alone rebuild from one.

> In my world, there are only 2 kinds of can't.
>
> If you can't do the job,
> Then you can't stay.
>

Hmmmm....

My Time: Sunday, 30 January 2005 - 09:37 AM --800 (Pacific Standard Time)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

<img>

---

> Of course, with my Social Security payments that you intend to finish your
> life on.

You really need to learn how to read. I don't need your social security payments and I will not need them when I retire. I AM NOT collecting funds and the still contributing to the system. I simply said if I did not work again my current level of income would run out before I die.


> I never said that, it's your ignorant (as in uninformed) opinion. The term I
> used was less fortunate....like you described your parents.

I didn't say my parents were ignorant. I said they had to leave school to help support there familys.. My parents were alive during the great depression or did you learn about that with your vast education.. Your words have and continue to view people who are not working with destain. You don't like me because I choose what contracts I wish to work.. You automatically thought I am poor and unwilling to work. leaching off the system which I am not.



> You don't have a job, you're not contributing, AND you are PLANNING on
> receiving SSI, as in taking from the community. I may be wearing rose colored
> glasses, but at least they don't blind me to my own actions.
>

Again you need to learn how to comprehend what you are reading and not just read it. I am contributing to the system. Just because I don't have a "job" doesn't mean I don't have a real income. That was your assumption. I have a real income and i AM contributing to your future.


> I work for the state of Louisiana, not folks on welfare.....but facts are
> facts, if you are sitting on the couch planning to leech off the government
> instead of working and trying to prevent it, then there IS something wrong.
>

You work on public housing. These are the same people you have repeatedly referred to with destain. Again I do not plan on leeching off the governement.

> A car is better than no car, a house is better than no house, a JOB is better
> than no Job. Sorry, I didn't realize I would have to spell this all out for
> you. I assumed you were capable of more than calling people names....but
> there I go again treating you like an equal, when according to you, I don't.
>

You are once again assuming because I am not working a "job" I am poor and not contributing to the system.. I am neither... Please don't consider me YOUR equal.. I would not to see myself in the same class as you..

> > Enjoy your world. I am glad you are not in mine.
>
> I do, and the feeling is mutual, but then again, you couldn't survive in my
> world. O, but I forgot, crime isn't higher in the projects than every where
> else, I'm thinking unfairly again, huh?
>

You are not thinking at all.. This discussion is now ended. It is obvious to me your argument is only intended to enflame.. Please don't bother to respond to this in your peicemeal way because I will no longer see your responses.

---

I'd rather speak my mind because it hurts too much to bite my tongue.

American Spirit BBQ Proudly Serving those that courageously defend freedom.

> >....
> LAF, excuse me, would you prefer disabled?

Yes! That was what the author originally stated.

> >....
> Well, at least it's not the first "mentally challenged" thing you've said to
> me today.

You know? I could step "down" to your level and call you a moron, but I won't.

> How about all the cracks they made about me, my job, my religious beliefs, and
> my political beliefs?

Any "cracks" made were in retaliation to the "cracks" you have been making to them.

> Or in typical liberal (hypocritical) fashion, did you ignore the comments of
> your peers?

No. And they are my peers, and friends.

> >....
> Betterthan being thought a sympathizer. People pull their own weight when
> they are around me.

What? Are you some sort of deity? Do those same people bow down to you as well?

> It even got you off the couch and involved in the
> conversation, with nothing more than stating my opinion and giving facts to
> support them.

Gotch ya.... I do not own a couch. You have not given facts, you have given opinions. And, you know what they say about opinions....

> > As for the "majority of Americans", the majority of that majority
> is
> > from other countries.
>
> Last time I checked, our entire country was built by people immigrating from
> foreign lands....but you know what? Each and every single one of those votes
> was cast by an American citizen.
>

Do you realize that your vote does not count for crap? Neither does mine. If the guy you vote for wins, you became lucky.
We do not elect our own president and haven't for quite a long time. The electoral college does. It was formed when instant
communication did not exist. It does now and the electoral college is now passé.

My Time: Sunday, 30 January 2005 - 10:07 AM --800 (Pacific Standard Time)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath