If the U.N. wasn't such a toothless tiger, due to those ridiculous powers of veto, I'd say that they should take over the running of Israel, Palestine and Lebanon until sensible people can be found to run their own countries in peace instead of the terrorists running them all now. There are many innocents on all sides, but all they're all only pawns in play for all those with agendas.

An angry statement, but it contains a solution.

The veto power was intended for five rational!, (democratic!) great powers that maintain world peace. Doesn't work with USSR, not with Russia or Red China (instead of Rep. of China). In today's U.N. General Assembly there is a majority of autocratic states which may also decide to dissolve Israel as a state. Guterres would welcome and support it. As long as each Caribbean micro nation has the same voting weight than the U.S. or India, veto powers are indispensable.

So, not the U.N. but maybe a rational Arab (or Islamic) coalition (Egypt, Jordan, Saudis... Indonesia?) can be formed, which will occupy Gaza, Lebanon, maybe Southern parts of Syria too... The West better spends billions for such occupation administrations than for dysfunctional (so called) 'governments' of PLO or Hamas. Israel is a democracy, the only one there. Benji was elected. No need to occupy them. Israelis will vote Benji out, permanently. Arab occupation of non-democratic, irresponsibly run territories would have to end terrorism there, something that even the late, peaceful PLO could not or never wanted to do. Only then this eternal war can end. The next Israeli government must disarm and stop violent settlers of West Bank. Only then a two-state solution can be negotiated again, while occupation forces in Gaza, Lebanon, southern Syria and West Bank must severly punish anyone, who throws a stone, takes up a gun, constructs a bomb or launches a rocket... be it a Palestinian, an Arab or a Jew.

But who is willing to confront Teheran and Putin? They can and will destroy everything.
[edited for typos]

The Palestinians are still poor, but still not any exuse of attacking the Israelis in my opinion.

The Palestinians didn't attack Israelis, Hamas did, but the Israeli government lit the wick.

The Afghans didn't attack the U.S., Bin Laden did, but the U.S. government lit the wick.

I don't want to upset anyone. It's just as a comparison. You mentioned the Queen of Jordan, a reflected thoughtful personality. She is absolutely right, everything she said. But also she avoids the most important point. How do you remove a terrorist organization from power in Gaza (or e.g. Lebanon) that is well supported from abroad with money and weapons? What should Israel do? What would any other country do in a comparable situation? Since October 7th there has been no suggestion from any UN member state, only reminders, warnings and threats. Ignore Hamas killings and keep quiet? Pacifism?

Do we armchair diplomats have workable suggestions? I don't have any in this terrible situation.

We have some very deadly crossfire, and hatred, being stirred up by Putin and Khamenei.

What better to keep a precarious despot in power but to have a convenient war to deflect blame and attention?

What better than to target scapegoats for them to suffer all 'blame'?

And we have that other precarious despot, Xi Jinping, ruthlessly controlling his China, coldly waiting on the sidelines learning from everyone else's discomfort.

And we have the many "Expendables"/"Pawns"/"Indoctrinated"/"Innocents" bearing a deadly cost.

What next?


Stay safe?
Martin

---

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Note: This follows on from other threads for current deadly events...

Discuss what next?

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
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We have various news about how the launch by Hamas of over 5000 rockets, and the other deliberately sickening atrocities committed by Hamas, has long been orchestrated by Russia and Iran to ignite a war. (And all people be damned and Expended.)


Who gains?

Well Putin has already undoubtedly gained greatly by the News media and politics blindly following the immediate far bigger 'distraction'. There is also a significant diversion of support away from Ukraine.

We also have to keep very much in mind the oil/gas supply games that Putin used last winter to try to freeze out support for Ukraine:

World shift to clean energy is unstoppable, IEA report says
wrote:

The world is on an "unstoppable" shift towards renewable energy...

... predicted renewables would provide half of the world's electricity by 2030...

... "The transition to clean energy is happening worldwide and it's unstoppable. It's not a question of 'if', it's just a matter of 'how soon' - and the sooner the better for all of us,"...

... Middle Eastern countries, such as Iran and Saudi Arabia - account for 67% of world oil reserves.

The report drew parallels with the 1973 oil crisis when Arab oil producers imposed an embargo in response to Western support for Israel in the Yom Kippur war against Arab states led by Egypt and Syria. As a result petrol prices skyrocketed, with knock-on effects on inflation and high unemployment.

The IEA said that this time around the world is also facing the impact of volatile gas prices. The UK increased its imports of LNG following the invasion of Ukraine to reduce its reliance on Russian gas and 14% of the UK's gas is now supplied as LNG from Qatar...

Putin turns off the oil and gas, by proxy, to freeze out our democracies?...

Note also that Russia's economy is not viable without selling oil and gas...


All in a very deadly game...
Martin

---

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An angry statement, but it contains a solution.

I'm sorry but it anger it wasn't, just decades of frustration of watching this never ending revolving story. ;-)

An angry statement, but it contains a solution.

I'm sorry but it anger it wasn't, just decades of frustration of watching this never ending revolving story. ;-)

Madness is repeating the same thing and expecting something different...


Yes, we all need a positive way out.


Stay safe?
Martin

---

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An angry statement, but it contains a solution.

I'm sorry but it anger it wasn't, just decades of frustration of watching this never ending revolving story. ;-)

I also remember this conflict since my childhood. Back then it was a conflict of Arafat's PLO vs. Israel. Long ago, Iran, a non-Arab Shia country, became involved in this regional conflict between Sunni Arabs and Israel, today as decisive opponent. Before that, Arabs and Persians (Iran) fought each other in a long, destructive war. How could Iran become Israel's main enemy? Is Iran targeting Israel or its protective power, the USA? What does Iran gain from this conflict? I don't get it.

...How could Iran become Israel's main enemy? Is Iran targeting Israel or its protective power, the USA? What does Iran gain from this conflict? I don't get it.

I reckon that you can blame delusional Donny there for that. ;-)

Putin is pushing a hate filled narrative of excuses and scapegoating across the media... Very hateful, and coldly calculating to deliberately cause divisions and strife...


How do we educate the Expendables, and the rest of the world population, to see through his hate generating lies and propaganda?


Instead:

Be excellent to one another!
Martin

---

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...How could Iran become Israel's main enemy? Is Iran targeting Israel or its protective power, the USA? What does Iran gain from this conflict? I don't get it.

I reckon that you can blame delusional Donny there for that. ;-)

Iran gets noticed and so gains acknowledgement and increased influence.

The mad mullahs there get to keep their necks undisturbed for a short while longer whilst they maintain their state of war to stay in power...


Stay safe?
Martin

---

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Are Islamic authorities fundamentally incapable of cooperation and cooperative prosperity?

(That's a genuine question. )


Be excellent to one another!
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
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Meanwhile, we have our own very British way about things:


Pro-Palestinian march ban would be last resort - Met
wrote:

A pro-Palestinian march due to take place on Armistice Day would only be banned as a "last resort", the Metropolitan Police Commissioner said.

Sir Mark Rowley vowed officers would do all they could to protect remembrance activities and Jewish communities.

While he said police could not ban static protests under UK law, they can request the power to stop a march if a threat of serious disorder emerges.

But he said the "very high" threshold had not yet been reached...

... On Monday, the force publicly urged organisers to postpone the event, which is due to take place in central London, saying it would not be "appropriate".

Both Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and Home Secretary Suella Braverman have criticised the timing of the march on 11 November, which thousands are expected to attend.

A Remembrance event is due to take place at the Royal Albert Hall the same day, as well as a national two minute's silence.

But organisers have refused to postpone despite public pressure from police and politicians, pointing out the planned route does not go past the Cenotaph war memorial and the march is due to start after the two minute's silence.

Speaking to the BBC, the Met chief said: "At the moment, the organisers are still putting the final stages to their plans - which, to be fair to them, are some way away from the ceremonial footprint in Whitehall. "They're putting the final touches to those, we're looking alongside that at what conditions we might need to do to reinforce the protection of critical events and of Jewish communities and the like...

"... People should be very reassured that we are going to keep this all away form the remembrance and Armistice events."...

Very hopefully we don't get to see or suffer any Wagner or Hamas "Special Forces", or their "Mercenary Thugs", spoiling the party for everyone, or any intrusion upon our solemn Remembrance.


Be Excellent to one another,
Martin

---

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Sadly, a sad reflection of the reality as shown on the internet:


WhatsApp’s AI shows gun-wielding children when prompted with ‘Palestine’
wrote:

By contrast, prompts for ‘Israeli’ do not generate images of people wielding guns, even in response to a prompt for ‘Israel army’...

Note how the various AI 'engines' are trained with what is seen on the internet. And that training adds up to an 'understanding' that is a condensed summary of what is on the internet...

Unfortunately, this goes far beyond "stereotypes".


Sadly, very sad.

Hamas and Iran/Russia have been too successfully insidious.


Instead:

Be excellent to one another!
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
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Meanwhile, we have our own very British way about things:
Pro-Palestinian march ban would be last resort - Met
wrote:

A pro-Palestinian march due to take place on Armistice Day would only be banned as a "last resort", the Metropolitan Police Commissioner said.
[...]
While he said police could not ban static protests under UK law, they can request the power to stop a march if a threat of serious disorder emerges.

...the 'British way'... what is the British way? I have a question. The German Constitution ("Grundgesetz" (GG) ... Basic Law) states:

§ 8 GG: (1) All Germans have the right to assemble peacefully and without weapons, without registration or permission.

All rules for public protests are based on this. Only German citizens have this right, not foreigners, expats, refugees, asylum applicants, ... A large proportion of those protesting against Israel today yet don't have our citizenship, nor voting rights. But there's no authority (local administrative level) here, which is willing to restrict participation of foreigners in political protests. Federal and state governments passively tolerate this. Politicians express: 'Everyone' has the right to protest which isn't true. So we have large aggressive crowds of Hamas... even Taliban supporters, flying their flags, who conquer the public streets and places in Berlin, grabbing and destroying each flag of Israel flying anywhere. Some even call for the caliphate. I fear, we manage these (for us) new phenomenons fundamentally wrong.

What is the legal situation in the UK, US, or Australia regarding this detail (citizenship) in current protests? I'm not questioning citizen protests, but foreigners who aggressively conquer the public space, attack dissenters or pro-Israel protesters.

We have to be excellent to one another... but we also must defend our culture of peaceful street protest; protests of arguments against the screaming angry mob.

[EDIT to add:]I'm terrified that such protesters even attacked an elderly British war veteran who was simply selling remembrance poppies in a train station.

What is the legal situation in the UK, US, or Australia regarding this detail (citizenship) in current protests?

First Amendment wrote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The People is not Citizens.

Sadly this sort of "misdirection" reminds me of one of the search engines which (a good few years ago) pointed to gas chambers and concentration camps when the search phrase contained the word "jews"

---

Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

What is the legal situation in the UK, US, or Australia regarding this detail (citizenship) in current protests?

In the UK, Human Rights Act 1998 wrote:

Article 11

Freedom of assembly and association

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

2. No restrictions shall be placed on the exercise of these rights other than such as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others. This Article shall not prevent the imposition of lawful restrictions on the exercise of these rights by members of the armed forces, of the police or of the administration of the State.

So, no mention of citizenship as such - I take 'everyone' to mean literally what it says.

But I think everything from "other than such as are prescribed by ..." opens multiple questions of interpretation. We are seeing substantial differences between the interpretations of the politicians in the current governing party, and the interpretations of the senior police hierarchy - no doubt a third interpretation (by rank-and-file police on the ground) will emerge on the day itself.

All those will eventually be resolved by the courts, but long after the event.

What is the legal situation in the UK, US, or Australia regarding this detail (citizenship) in current protests?

Here ICCPR Article 21 states:

The right of peaceful assembly shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, public order ( ordre public), the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

And from ICCPR Article 22 states:

Resolution 15/21 reaffirms that “everyone has the rights to freedom of peaceful assembly and of association” (emphasis added). This provision must be read jointly with article 2 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which stipulates that “each State Party undertakes to respect and to ensure to all individuals within its territory and subject to its jurisdiction the rights recognized in the Covenant, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status” (emphasis added)., and article 26 thereof, which guarantees to all individuals equal and effective protection against discrimination on
grounds identified in article 2. This applies inter alia to minors, indigenous peoples, persons with disabilities, persons belonging to minority groups or other groups at risk, including those victims of discrimination because of their sexual orientation and gender identity (see Council resolution 17/19), non-nationals including stateless persons, refugees or migrants, as well as associations, including unregistered groups. The rights to freedom of peaceful assembly and of association are key human rights in international human rights law, which are enshrined in article 20 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

So it's "everyone" here as well and not just citizens.

... So, no mention of citizenship as such - I take 'everyone' to mean literally what it says.

But I think everything from "other than such as are prescribed by ..." opens multiple questions of interpretation. We are seeing substantial differences between the interpretations of the politicians in the current governing party, and the interpretations of the senior police hierarchy - no doubt a third interpretation (by rank-and-file police on the ground) will emerge on the day itself...

Here's hoping cool enough heads prevail on the day, and that there are no spoilers...


Be excellent everyone!
Martin

---

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The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)