Erasing history?

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Message 1807439 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 2:01:09 UTC
Last modified: 6 Aug 2016, 2:01:28 UTC

There is a monument in my city that has stirred some controversy. It is a "Confederate Monument" which honors the dead soldiers from the Confederacy of the U.S. during the Civil War. Some say it should be taken away because of the relationship the Confederacy had with slavery. I feel that would be wrong because it would be taking away something that represents a historical period in the U.S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_Monument_in_Louisville

What do you think?
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Message 1807446 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 2:21:08 UTC - in response to Message 1807439.  

There is a monument in my city that has stirred some controversy. It is a "Confederate Monument" which honors the dead soldiers from the Confederacy of the U.S. during the Civil War. Some say it should be taken away because of the relationship the Confederacy had with slavery. I feel that would be wrong because it would be taking away something that represents a historical period in the U.S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_Monument_in_Louisville

What do you think?

I dislike it when the PC people insist something should be changed or removed because it is no longer fits in with present day thinking.
How will people and their children know what's gone on before, if it is hidden, and therefore don't ask questions about these things. You cannot teach everything in schools, most learning comes from observing and then asking questions or googling to find the answer.

Removing statues and stained glass windows, changing characters and words in books is all wrong. Robertsons jam badges
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Message 1807457 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 3:04:00 UTC

I think context is everything. Like WinterKnight, I think removing such items from public view does a disservice to our own history and culture. However, if such items seem to be held in high regard, as if pride is to be taken from the history, then the message to young people is that what the south did was OK, and that it's ok to endorse those attitudes.

In Germany, every house where a Jew was dragged from their home to be sent to concentration camps, a plaque naming the family that lived there is permanently attached to the outside as a reminder of those dark times and the awful things that happened.

If the south showed shame of their history, and maybe put up plaques where every African American was hung or beaten to death, or named streets after slaves where they once served their masters, then I'd be OK with it.


Honoring dead Confederate soldiers seems to endorse what they fought for, as if they gave a great sacrifice to their cause, that is to say nothing of why they were fighting. A state "right" to own a slave is nothing to honor.

Why aren't the victims honored in the south as a sign of remorse and shame and acknowledgement that they stood on the wrong side of human rights and history?
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Message 1807478 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 4:56:41 UTC - in response to Message 1807457.  

Oz, excellent.

Many of these monuments were put up by the children of the people honored, through "civic" groups. As such they are very single sided in their message. Same with the city council naming streets, schools, public buildings and anything else that could have a name attached. Children of the "hero."
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Message 1807484 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 5:54:52 UTC

Powerful post, Ozz.
Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.
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Message 1807529 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 12:32:16 UTC - in response to Message 1807457.  

Why aren't the victims honored


Absolutely, they should be, but education about what monuments we currently have and why we have them is important, too. The fact we don't have a balance in the memorials doesn't mean we should get rid of them.
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Message 1807540 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 16:01:07 UTC - in response to Message 1807439.  

Sad. If that goes ahead, then you might as well tear down the Vietnam Wall & other monuments throughout the world.
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Message 1807543 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 16:13:49 UTC
Last modified: 6 Aug 2016, 16:14:19 UTC

I should note that the small strip of land the controversial monument sits on, also has memorials in honor of civil rights.

https://louisville.edu/freedompark
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Message 1807555 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 16:39:49 UTC - in response to Message 1807540.  

Sad. If that goes ahead, then you might as well tear down the Vietnam Wall & other monuments throughout the world.

Vietnam wall isn't a giant statue of Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon and Robert McNamara! If these civil war monuments were lists of the names of the grunts that died, there would be no controversy. Because then they would be a memorial and not a glorification of an idea.
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Message 1807559 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 16:54:21 UTC - in response to Message 1807555.  

So the North has none?

If one is about to take down monuments due to controversy, then one might as well take down all monuments to war - Isn't war itself controversial?
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Message 1807560 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 16:54:46 UTC - in response to Message 1807553.  
Last modified: 6 Aug 2016, 16:55:44 UTC

Perhaps having plaques and other educational tools, near or beneath these Historical Items.


That's what people did near the Confederate monument here, and yet some people still want to take it away.

https://louisville.edu/freedompark
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Message 1807564 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 17:02:56 UTC - in response to Message 1807559.  

So the North has none?

Are you pro slavery? Or just so insulated across the pond you don't have a clue and shouldn't be posting in this thread?
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Message 1807565 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 17:03:00 UTC - in response to Message 1807560.  

IMV it's best left standing. Then people rather than moan about it, can look at it & say "never again" - That would be a better reminder than losing them & having them become a passing footnote of history.
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Message 1807566 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 17:05:35 UTC - in response to Message 1807564.  

So the North has none?

Are you pro slavery? Or just so insulated across the pond you don't have a clue and shouldn't be posting in this thread?

The thread title is "erasing history". Nowhere does it say "America only"

Also, what has "pro slavery" got to do with it, the thread is about monuments. Are you saying that there is no monuments outside the USA?
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Message 1807567 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 17:05:59 UTC - in response to Message 1807560.  

No where has freer speech than the USA where the losers can construct war memorials!

Or for Sirius, does the IRA have memorials to their bomb makers?
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Message 1807569 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 17:07:13 UTC - in response to Message 1807566.  
Last modified: 6 Aug 2016, 17:10:52 UTC

So the North has none?

Are you pro slavery? Or just so insulated across the pond you don't have a clue and shouldn't be posting in this thread?

The thread title is "erasing history". Nowhere does it say "America only"

Also, what has "pro slavery" got to do with it, the thread is about monuments. Are you saying that there is no monuments outside the USA?

Funny, the OP seems to be talking about one single specific monument.
<ed>or at least type of monument commemoration
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Message 1807571 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 17:10:36 UTC - in response to Message 1807569.  

In that case, the thread title should be changed to encompass America only. That will then prevent us silly non-Americans from commenting :-)
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Message 1807574 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 17:13:08 UTC

I started the thread with one particular monument in mind, but discussing other places and how they handle things is part of it.
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Message 1807581 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 17:42:26 UTC - in response to Message 1807567.  

No where has freer speech than the USA where the losers can construct war memorials!

Or for Sirius, does the IRA have memorials to their bomb makers?

The North constructed monuments & they did not lose :-)

As for your 2nd comment, I have no idea.

My point is that regardless of reason or cause, if one starts removing monuments, then all monuments that glorify war should be removed.
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Message 1807582 - Posted: 6 Aug 2016, 17:42:53 UTC - in response to Message 1807576.  

Perhaps having plaques and other educational tools, near or beneath these Historical Items.


That's what people did near the Confederate monument here, and yet some people still want to take it away.

https://louisville.edu/freedompark

Well...

When The Right grabs this Power. And they will one day.

Guessing all the Statues, Plaques, and Street Names to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., will be removed.


My point really in the specific case that started this thread is that the monument which is offensive to some, has had memorials which give a broader picture of the history involved placed within the small park where it currently resides, and yet the push is still to move it out. Other locations in other communities are being discussed, but really in the grand scheme of things I think it's better off left where it's been for over a hundred years because there is a fair balance of history presented there.
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