How have they solved the problem of Hydrogen loss from the storage tanks as I believe Hydrogen leeks out of them as Hydrogen atoms are so small they can get through materials like steel witch is what the gas cylinders are normally made of ?

Witch sort of makes me think there not as good as we are being told or at least there will be a lot of wasted Hydrogen that escapes into the atmosphere

The Mirai has two hydrogen tanks with a three-layer structure made of carbon fiber-reinforced plastic consisting of nylon 6 from Ube Industries and other materials.

In the event of a leak Hydrogen is so light that it rapidly rises and disperses into the atmosphere unlike petrol or hydrocarbon gasses.

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Kevin

Now I have nada F1 tech in a normal car driven under normal conditions .

Maybe on a drive of 20 mins or longer on a freeway with no traffic but not in peek hour and lithum iron batteries . Take to long to charge up .

Besides Toyota , Gm , Ford all have them now , Toyota is probably the best of them at the moment

For the price the Tesla is looking cheaper every day .and renewables wont take long to overtake normal power generation so any effects will be negligible over the long term where if we keep pumping out Co2 it doesn't help the problems we face

when the F1 cars run on a cap battery i'll take notice that would be a breakthrough 1 lap charge 5 laps running on electric

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I was suggesting using F1 technology, not an F1 engine in normal vehicles. There is no reason a larger battery pack couldn't be fitted. And your comment about charge time being too long. The F1 cars can fully charge their batteries in one lap that's about 5 km (2 miles) or 100 seconds.

And for a road vehicle there is no reason why re-generative braking could not be applied from the front axle as well. Most of the braking energy is done by the front wheels.

There is no reason a larger battery pack couldn't be fitted. And your comment about charge time being too long. The F1 cars can fully charge their batteries in one lap that's about 5 km (2 miles) or 100 seconds

but how far to discharge ?

weight mite be a problem the batteries might be light , but light compared to ....lead acid or NiCad . There still heavy , Caps are spose to be much lighter but they need development .

You have to go full electric for the distance .At the moment Hybrid have a place but not for to much longer

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"Electric cars" are new, and can't be compared to "Fossil fuel cars".

well no but that' a only a matter of time once the switch is made

Instead of getting speeding fines it will be pollution fines for driving any petrol or hybrid you watch the polly's will get onto that one not that far from now

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Glenn, it sounds like you don't understand this type of F1 hybrid technology at all.

The electric motor in these is only used to provide extra power to the fuel engine's when required, it doesn't run on the electric motor only or all the time. Remember that not that long back F1 cars had engines with 3-3.5L capacities, now they're just 1600cc.

This technology is also being used by supercar manufacturers now and it won't be long for it filters down to the general public.

You will have cars with smaller more fuel efficient engines that are boosted by electric motors powered by recovered energy when needed (such as when accelerating, climbing hills or overtaking).

And this is why this technology is more energy efficient than full electric.

Cheers.

Wiggo I understand it .

F1 car driving is just not the same as normal car driving

Yes it's good to not have to use a v8 and now use a 1.6 ltre but the problems is still the same

Petrol is non reusable

And is Finite

as there's more cars there's more pollution

Petrol cars still use energy to get the crude into petrol and get it to market or to produce the petrol

and to make the cars only dif is you have to continual make more oil more oil electric batteries will last a long time and become even more efficient than petrol electric

The same systems like kinetic storage from brakes can be used on electric too

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You will have cars with smaller more fuel efficient engines that are boosted by electric motors powered by recovered energy when needed (such as when accelerating, climbing hills or overtaking).

And this is why this technology is more energy efficient than full electric.

Cheers.

Energy recovery systems are already in use in both electric (battery) and fuel cell cars.

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Kevin

Electric cars are fast too

Off the mark or top speed . compare a stock petrol not a Hybrid and you got a fair race

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Can you drive from Darwin to Adelaide in a totally electric car at any time of day?

Not some time in the future but now. At the moment the energy density of a re-chargeable battery is about one tenth of gasoline.

So to be really usable the energy density of batteries for a totally electric carv still needs to be improved massively and the recharge time needs to be the same as that taken to refill the tank.

Or the battery pack changed, which will require absolute guarantees that the pack installed is as good as the pack removed. Imagine replacing the discharged battery in your brand new laptop with my re-charged 18 month old one.

Electric cars are fast too

Off the mark or top speed . compare a stock petrol not a Hybrid and you got a fair race

Of course they are and with like for like torque figures the electric motor accelerates faster.

Can you drive from Darwin to Adelaide in a totally electric car at any time of day?

Not some time in the future but now. At the moment the energy density of a re-chargeable battery is about one tenth of gasoline.

So to be really usable the energy density of batteries for a totally electric carv still needs to be improved massively and the recharge time needs to be the same as that taken to refill the tank.

Or the battery pack changed, which will require absolute guarantees that the pack installed is as good as the pack removed. Imagine replacing the discharged battery in your brand new laptop with my re-charged 18 month old one.

You mean the Solar challenge race mmm bit uncomfortable in one of them

as for the density Tesler 380-450 miles on 1 charge

petrol fuel tank same but the carbon that's released where the electric can be charged with renewable again and again and again 1200 times

at present hybrids for a F1 Cool for us mortals Electric or start feeding me Banana's

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Yes there is Formula E racing, but 2 cars are required to complete a race as even with the best of energy recovery systems available today the batteries just won't last long enough to keep them going, so instead of changing batteries (time consuming) or putting them on a charger for hours, they just swap cars at the halfway point.

And there's no all electric car out there that's any different currently available, you will have to recharge the batteries soon enough (not a fast process), plus recharging from a coal powered source just defeats being green all together (renewable or hydro power does not exist everywhere).

The F1 hybrid technology is just like a normal car, just quickly top up the tank and keep on going without any delays.

Your typical small petrol car these days uses around 4.5-5.5L/100kms while this hybrid tech in the same size car is expected to get down to around 2.5L/100kms.

In a big country where many hundreds of kilometres can easily be done within a day I know which 1 will win hands down in efficiency (and that isn't an all electric car).

Cheers.

Wiggo ya got me there ...

200k north of Tenant creek off to right across the tree less plains last stop and a ruby great big sign last petrol for 500 k
lucky I had a jerry can on the roof racks next stop was even worse for petrol a Hybrid would have been handy then

And boy do they know how to charge for stuff

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"Electric cars" are new, and can't be compared to "Fossil fuel cars".
Part of the "Electric car" story is the "Movable Energy Store".
If i can drive my fully charged Tesla to an emergency center, and connect to their energy grid,
then technology is working for humanity.

Electric cars... new?!?!?

Pull the other one.

English inventor Thomas Parker, who was responsible for innovations such as electrifying the London Underground, overhead tramways in Liverpool and Birmingham, and the smokeless fuel coalite, built the first production electric car in London in 1884, using his own specially designed high-capacity rechargeable batteries.[15] Parker's long-held interest in the construction of more fuel-efficient vehicles led him to experiment with electric vehicles. He also may have been concerned about the malign effects smoke and pollution were having in London.[16]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle

Can you drive from Darwin to Adelaide in a totally electric car at any time of day?

There are corridors throughout the US, and other countries, where a Tesla can be
fully charged in less than 20 minutes.

I take issue with the original article that this thread is based on.
Comparing the thermal efficiency of an F! hybrid engine to a coal plant is setting a pretty low bar.
I'm guessing that a comparison between burning F1 hybrid fuel in a race-car,
or a regenerative turbo generator, would have the turbo generating equal power
,if not more, and allow waste heat to be diverted to agriculture.
F1 tech would be very expensive, and would not address the storage capacity that
electric cars would provide by design.

The F1 technology doesn't need the battery storage capacity that you refer to as it's stored energy is in the fuel. And if you read my last post it is about energy density to carry the same amount of energy in batteries compared to gasoline is not feasible. What the F1 technology does is improve the efficiency of the gasoline engine, from at max with present day car design 35% to 50%. So if the same technology was used on a road car, without upgrading the performance significantly, (it would accelerate faster) the consumption figure would increase significantly. e.g. from 35 mpg to 50mpg.

Yes the this new technology is expensive, but all new technology is expensive, but when put into production and used in millions of cars the cost would fall to being affordable by the general public.

Batteries are dangerous on two scores the chemicals used, and the risk of short circuits.

Yes the this new technology is expensive, but all new technology is expensive, but when put into production and used in millions of cars the cost would fall to being affordable by the general public.

same for electric and no pollution you underestimate the public, it's a backward step

Batteries are dangerous on two scores the chemicals used, and the risk of short circuits.

Only 2

Crude oil is not dangerous or petrol is not dangerous .

What happens if a truck tips over carrying batteries for a car

And another truck but a Fuel truck it tips over ...

I know witch one I would rather have been driving

and the ecological disasters done so far oil is bad and we need to faze it out and quickly

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and the ecological disasters done so far oil is bad and we need to faze it out and quickly

I couldn't agree more but the technology you think is here, isn't yet, for all our transport needs.
Batteries, or any other technology, except fossil fuel and hydrogen, do not store enough energy, for all vehicles to perform their normal day to day tasks.
The motors and generators require rare earth materials to be able to perform well enough, and the production of these isn't green, environmentally friendly or healthy for the workers.
And it's only recently that solar panels actually produce more power that it takes to make them. And that can be questionable if not fitted in suitable locations. And the ones I have would be economical if it wasn't for the subsidies and the fact China was pushing them out cheaper than they could be produced in Europe.

Some F1 tech relies on the conversion of kinetic energy back into potential energy.
Some of the tech is looking at braking energy converted to electric storage in batteries, some into flywheel storage

And that was developed by F1 as well. http://www.williamsf1.com/advanced-engineering/case-studies/incubating-technology
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/10737329/Williams-sells-hybrid-power-unit-to-GKN.html

And now we have hybrid electric power trains for your private plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1Xrr82Hbkc