Yep ISIS put a bomb for shore they where to quick to take the blame so I reckon they knew it was on board the plane hopefully the France will let everyone know soon what the flight recorders say .

Putin I bet is peed off he didn't go straight for ISIS instead of baking Bashir and bombing the rebels fighting him .

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U.S. intelligence suggests Russian plane crash likely caused by bomb planted by ISIS or its affiliate, U.S.

I hope you did some typos here:)
The only part in this messy conflict I can think of that would do terror attacks against Russia are the Syria rebels fighting against al-Assad.
Or is it al-Assad trying to blame Syrian rebels by doing the action themself?


On the other hand.
Sina islamic front Isis in "Egypt" claims this is the video of shooting down the russian plane.
https://youtu.be/-2i2GIpX5ec
I think it's ISIS propaganda.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EY8T3Bbr28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_qlBy45v9E

U.S. intelligence suggests Russian plane crash likely caused by bomb planted by ISIS or its affiliate, U.S.

I hope you did some typos here:)
The only part in this messy conflict I can think of that would do terror attacks against Russia are the Syria rebels fighting against al-Assad.
Or is it al-Assad trying to blame Syrian rebels by doing the action themself?

ISIL has a history of attacking every country in the coalition opposed to it. As Putin has said he is attacking them, even if he isn't, he has made himself a target. And don't forget Russia's involvement in Afghanistan some years back. I don't think it would have been that hard to put a suitcase bomb on a plane leaving an Islamic airport. Heck the underpaid security officer could have been told it was drugs to be sold for relief money for Gaza.

The interesting question is what does Putin do about it? He isn't going to be restrained by international BS if he decides to go after them. Then again does Assad support ISIL and Putin just gave himself an excuse to wipe out the rebels? With Russia you must always suspect a false flag operation.

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French media saying there was sound of bomb.

France24 - Black box confirms explosion on Russian plane, says French media

The cockpit voice recorder (CVR) of the Russian plane that crashed in Egypt has confirmed there was an explosion on board Metrojet Airbus A321, French media reported Friday, citing an expert source.

Data from the CVR that was retrieved from the crash site in Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula has revealed that there was an explosion on board the flight, reported French weekly Le Point, quoting an unnamed expert.

French media saying there was sound of bomb.

France24 - Black box confirms explosion on Russian plane, says French media

The cockpit voice recorder (CVR) of the Russian plane that crashed in Egypt has confirmed there was an explosion on board Metrojet Airbus A321, French media reported Friday, citing an expert source.

Data from the CVR that was retrieved from the crash site in Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula has revealed that there was an explosion on board the flight, reported French weekly Le Point, quoting an unnamed expert.

According to the French media the data from one of the two black boxes, the flight parameters were extracted, but the one containing the crew's conversations is damaged and require much work to restore.
However.
Questioned by AFP, a source close to the matter indicates that a black box confirms the character "brutal, sudden" event. "Everything is normal, absolutely normal during the flight, and suddenly nothing," said this source. "This goes in the direction of the suddenness, the immediacy of the event," she added, while the two black boxes, the flight parameters and the one containing the conversations of the crew, were analyzed.
http://www.lepoint.fr/monde/crash-dans-le-sinai-l-arrivee-de-vols-britanniques-suspendue-a-charm-el-cheikh-06-11-2015-1979751_24.php

'Everyone' has 'Great' 'Intelligence' after.

Where 'is' 'All' this 'Great' 'Intelligence' Before People Perish?

As Great One Says: Always 'is', Always 'Will Be'.

Got 'Intel'?

Yup

Yep

yO

fO shO

fO evA

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

One thing about the Russians, they won't be afraid to retaliate against the perpetrators. I just hope they get the right target.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

If Putin thinks he can treat this conflict like he has in Chechnya or other places he will be sorely mistaken .

Being the big tuff man or hero is going to backfire . He needs to think about the END game here and stop supporting Bashir and start helping the rebels and attack ISIS after all this has only come about because of Bashir's governance of his people .

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If Putin thinks he can treat this conflict like he has in Chechnya or other places he will be sorely mistaken .

Being the big tuff man or hero is going to backfire . He needs to think about the END game here and stop supporting Bashir and start helping the rebels and attack ISIS after all this has only come about because of Bashir's governance of his people .

Don't think in terms of Western Morality.

The Jihadists (or what ever they call themselves over the millennium), have understood and respected, Raw and Brutal Power.

Unlike The USA. Russia did not have this Raw Power in Afghanistan.

Wonder if they do now

Let's hope after this plane he'll stop trying to be a Cowboy and use some of that mite the right way .

He underestimated the whole thing that's for shore . Possibly forgot places Like Egypt , Jordon even Lebanon , he does not control these country and unlike
Chechnya more country's are involved .

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If Putin thinks he can treat this conflict like he has in Chechnya or other places he will be sorely mistaken .

Being the big tuff man or hero is going to backfire . He needs to think about the END game here and stop supporting Bashir and start helping the rebels and attack ISIS after all this has only come about because of Bashir's governance of his people .

Don't think in terms of Western Morality.

The Jihadists (or what ever they call themselves over the millennium), have understood and respected, Raw and Brutal Power.

Unlike The USA. Russia did not have this Raw Power in Afghanistan.

Wonder if they do now

Let's hope after this plane he'll stop trying to be a Cowboy and use some of that mite the right way .

He underestimated the whole thing that's for shore . Possibly forgot places Like Egypt , Jordon even Lebanon , he does not control these country and unlike
Chechnya more country's are involved .

Unfortunately for Putin:

Russia does not have two, of the necessary Triage of Military Power. Air (Heavy Bombers) and Sea.

He only has one: Ground Forces.

Does he have the Logistics to Support the large amount (larger then The USA would need) of Ground Forces he would require?

Note: Russia had the same problem in Afghanistan. The USA did not.

Need to do the homework again, he has a Caspian sea flotilla capable of launching cruise missiles, Which I think he has already used at least once.

The Black sea fleet also has access to the Mediterranean. How do you think he transfers weapons to Syria.

And what about all these bombers he has been flying out over Murmansk and down the coast of Norway and into places, where the RAF goes out to and heads them off.
Also has a habit of flying them close to Alaska and down the West coast.


So he's not totally short of sea power.

If Putin thinks he can treat this conflict like he has in Chechnya or other places he will be sorely mistaken .

Being the big tuff man or hero is going to backfire . He needs to think about the END game here and stop supporting Bashir and start helping the rebels and attack ISIS after all this has only come about because of Bashir's governance of his people .

Don't think in terms of Western Morality.

The Jihadists (or what ever they call themselves over the millennium), have understood and respected, Raw and Brutal Power.

Unlike The USA. Russia did not have this Raw Power in Afghanistan.

Wonder if they do now

Let's hope after this plane he'll stop trying to be a Cowboy and use some of that mite the right way .

He underestimated the whole thing that's for shore . Possibly forgot places Like Egypt , Jordon even Lebanon , he does not control these country and unlike
Chechnya more country's are involved .

Unfortunately for Putin:

Russia does not have two, of the necessary Triage of Military Power. Air (Heavy Bombers) and Sea.

He only has one: Ground Forces.

Does he have the Logistics to Support the large amount (larger then The USA would need) of Ground Forces he would require?

Note: Russia had the same problem in Afghanistan. The USA did not.

Need to do the homework again, he has a Caspian sea flotilla capable of launching cruise missiles, Which I think he has already used at least once.

The Black sea fleet also has access to the Mediterranean. How do you think he transfers weapons to Syria.

And what about all these bombers he has been flying out over Murmansk and down the coast of Norway and into places, where the RAF goes out to and heads them off.
Also has a habit of flying them close to Alaska and down the West coast.


So he's not totally short of sea power.

Large war capability at sea?

Incursions, with his inferior Navy is meaningless.

A few missiles, and a few ships, are worthless in a Land War.

Russia has neither the Capably, nor more importantly, the Logistics.

I believe Putin does understand his problem.

You need to go back to school.

Furthermore, 'heavy bombers' (of which Putin has plenty btw) are a pretty outdated concept and completely useless in any land war in the Middle East against extremists. Its pointless to flatten an entire town just to hit maybe 10 guys. Its why we have precision bombs which can be dropped from multi role bombers or 'standard' air to ground fighter jets. Of which Putin has plenty as well.

As for the logistics, Russia owns a number of heavy lift transport planes (Antonov An-123 Ruslan for example). And that is not to mention the fact that they can have a fleet parked right next to the coast of Syria, which means they can also bring in supplies over sea. As for the size of their fleet, excuse me? A few ships can matter a lot, especially if the opponent has zero ships, no anti ship capabilities and no mobile floating missile platforms which can reign supersonic destruction on their heads. Besides, have you seen the size of the Black Sea fleet?

Also, the reason the Russians had to pull out of Afghanistan had nothing to do with their logistics. Its just really difficult to occupy a country that size, and even more difficult if the US is giving the local guerrilla fighters manpads capable of taking down Russian helicopters, thereby effectively denying the Russians one of their most capable weapon systems. Really, the Russians lost in Afghanistan for basically the same reasons as why the US lost in Vietnam. Sustained guerrilla warfare will sap the strength of anyone, no matter how powerful their military is.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-34227249

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/23/politics/us-russian-bombers-july-4-intercept/

#1) Please tell us which 'Heavy Bombers' Russia has. With the 'Bomb Lift' capacity of the three, and extensive 'in flight fueling' capability, the USA has. What are the numbers and necessary logistics to support Russia's Heavy Lift transports.

The Tupolev TU-95 'Bear' is the Russian counterpart of the American B-52 in terms of bomb payload and range. The Tupolev TU-160 is the supersonic variant of this. Whether they have the same range as the B-52 I'm not sure (the Russians have about 15.000 km range without refueling), but due to Russia's size, range becomes less relevant as simply stationing them on the right airbase means that in most cases they are well within range of almost any target. And if they have to, they can refuel in air.

Of course. The area is perfect to 'eliminate' your enemy, and everyone around him/her. Successful wars destroy everyone and everything, to kill 10 of the enemy.

No they don't. If you prosecute a war like that, the best case scenario is that you kill those 10 guys and 20 civilians, ensuring that everyone in the village and the villages around that hate you and will refuse to help you. In the worst case, you kill those 20 civilians and their surviving family members hate you and join the enemy. Good job, you killed 10 bad guys and created 50 more.

Your method of waging war has been sufficiently proven to be inefficient and counter productive by the last few decades of military conflict. Its why you lost Vietnam, its why you lost Afghanistan, its why you lost in Iraq, its why IS is a thing these days, its why the Taliban is still active in Afghanistan and has gotten a major foothold in Pakistan. Collateral damage strengthens the enemy.

#2) No. The Russians did not have, and still does not have, the weapons(Heavy Bombers, Fuel/Air, etc.) to destroy their enemy in Afghanistan. As the USA employed, in their successful 'War of Revenge' 2001-2002, and did. It was the Neo-Cons who snatched defeat from the Military Victory.

Why was there a slimmer of hope in Afghanistan following the immediate post invasion period? Because you guys drove out the Taliban and the Afghans hated the Taliban. As a result, you had the entire Afghan population supporting US coalition forces, making it extremely difficult for the Taliban to operate in anywhere but the least populated regions. Why has that changed? Well the US and coalition forces failed to capitalize on the Afghan goodwill, which turned into disappointment with their new governments who turned out to be just as bad as the Taliban albeit in different ways. The Taliban suddenly weren't the bad guys anymore, they regained support in the more populated regions making it easier for them to operate there again.

Even if you had a million troops stationed throughout Afghanistan, it wouldn't have made the slightest difference.

#3) Sorry. You have neither the training, nor experience, to understand the Vast Logistics necessary. Which Russia does not (yet) possess, 500 miles outside of its territory.

Your complete lack of knowledge of the Russian military, including such basic knowledge like the fact they possess heavy bombers and super heavy carrier transport planes, leads me to conclude you are in no position to judge the capabilities of the Russian military and whether or not they can set up a supply line to Syria, which for all practical considerations is basically next to the Russian border.

They have the tools necessary to set up a supply line, they have both sea and air routes to Syria, the only question is whether they have enough actual supplies to maintain their forces for long enough.

Мишель...

You are correct believing that if we do not accept this is a Real War:

'Pinpoint Bombing' and 'Targeted' Individuals, will be the only force used. To no real Military effect.

And if you think acting like Nazis by ruthlessly going after anything that moves will help, you are sadly mistaken. This is not a conflict that can be won through traditional warfare. If it was, Assad would have crushed the rebels long ago.

Putin seems to not accept the idea that it was a terrorist attack because of the political implications.
Moscow opts for conspiracy theories to explain the Flight 9268 crash

http://anton-shekhovtsov.blogspot.se/2015/11/moscow-opts-for-conspiracy-theories-to.html

On 6 November, Russia's international Sputnik website published Finian Cunningham's article that bluntly asked: "was it really terrorists, or was it British MI6 agents palming the deed off as terrorists?". The same day, a conspiracy website published an article by Sorcha Faal arguing that the Russian intelligence service had allegedly captured and arrested "two CIA assets for masterminding the Sinai plane crash of Flight 9268". The same argument was reproduced by Sean Adl-Tabatabai, a long time follower of David Icke who believes that a secret group of reptilian humanoids controls humanity. On 8 November, Russia's chief propagandist Dmitry Kiselev, published an article implicating that an explosion on Flight 9268 could be a result of the agreement between the "Western coalition" and ISIS.

Whatever the reason for the crash.
Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev told a government meeting Monday that flights to Egypt, one of the most popular international destinations for Russian tourists, are unlikely to be resumed in the near future, the RIA Novosti news agency reported.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russias-egypt-flight-ban-here-to-stay--medvedev/546231.html

@Clyde and Michel.
Russia has during the last 10 years growed at lot.
Invasian forces like VDV almost doubled.
There have been a lot of practing those forces including logistics and communications over vast distance lately.

When exactly was the necessary force used?

Why will this necessary force fail, in a Region perfect for it?

Because contrary to your belief, people don't like the faction that operates invisible murder drones that reign death from the skies and who killed their family. So rather than taking out enemies, it ends up creating them. The more collateral damage you cause, the less groups like IS seem like the bad guys, the more support they gain, the more followers they gain, the longer the conflict continues, the more costs of maintaining your campaign against them spiral out of control, the less the public at home believes in the possibility of victory, the higher the political costs of continued warfare, until at some point you are forced to retreat because the political leadership has finally decided that its pointless to continue a conflict that has become unwinnable.

Using that overwhelming force only works in your favor if its aimed at an actual, clearly identified traditional army and the state structures that exist to maintain it. Because a state follows certain expected patterns of behavior its a fairly safe bet that if you bomb their military and infrastructure into oblivion they will surrender. But you are not fighting a state in that region, you are fighting private militias, paramilitary organizations, terrorist organizations, those things don't have a state infrastructure, which means you can't effectively bomb them and there is no real reason to assume those groups will cease fighting if you bomb them long enough.

You can of course try to literally kill everyone who is part of that group, in which case using heavy bombers is ineffective, because we are talking about small, decentralized groups that are nearly indistinguishable from civilians and who have an easy time hiding, and even a direct hit from a bomb will perhaps kill only a handful of them. Killing them all takes forever, and if you use bombs you are far more likely to kill more civilians than bad guys in the progress. And as I mentioned before, killing civilians will make said civilians hate you and gain sympathy for the people you are trying to kill, thus more likely to join them and strengthen their organization.

I do understand your belief, that Modern Western Values are now immutable.

They are not.

This isn't just about our values, this is as much about efficiency. What you are suggesting just DOES NOT work.

Though I have to wonder, if this isn't about defending our values, then why would you fight against people because we feel those people represent a threat to our values? And if we give up our values and stoop to the enemy's level, what is the difference between us and them? Fighting bad guys by becoming the bad guy is as stupid and counterproductive as having a lot of sex in order to protect virginity.

Our values are what make us who we are, and I'm not saying those values should be immutable, but if at the first sign of trouble we conveniently forget about them or apply huge double standards whenever it suits us, it would suggest that those values never meant much to us and are little more than window dressing.

Sometimes, as History instructs us: Those possessing ethics and morality. Delay the inevitable. Causing more death and destruction.

History has never instructed such a thing. I have yet to see an example where brutal repression and ruthless oppression have gained us much.

Edit: Just compare the 'Bomb Payload' of the American and Russian bombers.

The Russian, 'Bombers' are Cruise Missile (Tactical Pinpoint Weapons) Platforms.

American B-52, B-1 and B-2 do both.

Meh, a B-52 dropping normal bombs is nice if you are fighting in Vietnam where you can safely bomb a large area without hitting any civilians. Using them over cities against terrorists would be a war crime.

Meh, a B-52 dropping normal bombs is nice if you are fighting in Vietnam where you can safely bomb a large area without hitting any civilians. Using them over cities against terrorists would be a war crime.

Just a slight correction, since 2013 the B-52's have started to be upgraded to operate only using guided weapons with all the digital equipment needed.
So the idea that they can only carpet bomb a large area is outdated. Plus the bomb size will be decreased, as happens when using guided weapons, so each plane can carry more whilst decreasing the payload and the use of the wing mounted points.

Not advocating. But just acknowledging (as some will not) Human Nature.

yup.

Turn Mideast-'cept ISrayAl into Glass. Then Install Solar Panels All Over 'It'.

Goin' Green 'is' GOoD.

yep.

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Update:

Russia plane crash: 'Terror act' downed A321 over Egypt's Sinai

Russia's security chief says an act of terror brought down the Russian A321 airliner in Egypt last month, killing all 224 people on board.

"Traces of foreign explosives" were found on debris from the Airbus plane, FSB chief Alexander Bortnikov told Russian President Vladimir Putin.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34840943

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Karma will always bite back in some way at some time, but at least the Russians are finally focused on the right enemy instead of the political opposition of their stupid allies.

Cheers.

A photo published in Islamic State magazine Dabiq shows a can of Schweppes Gold soft drink and what appeared to be a detonator and a switch.