To Work or Not?

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Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
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Message 1704130 - Posted: 22 Jul 2015, 21:50:42 UTC

Didn't take long for Faux to come up with this:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/22/seattle-sees-fallout-from-15-minimum-wage-as-other-cities-follow-suit/
Seattle’s $15 minimum wage law is supposed to lift workers out of poverty and move them off public assistance. But there may be a hitch in the plan.

Evidence is surfacing that some workers are asking their bosses for fewer hours as their wages rise – in a bid to keep overall income down so they don’t lose public subsidies for things like food, child care and rent.

Full Life Care, a home nursing nonprofit, told KIRO-TV in Seattle that several workers want to work less.

“If they cut down their hours to stay on those subsidies because the $15 per hour minimum wage didn’t actually help get them out of poverty, all you’ve done is put a burden on the business and given false hope to a lot of people,” said Jason Rantz, host of the Jason Rantz show on 97.3 KIRO-FM.
...
The notion that employees are intentionally working less to preserve their welfare has been a hot topic on talk radio. While the claims are difficult to track, state stats indeed suggest few are moving off welfare programs under the new wage.

Despite a booming economy throughout western Washington, the state’s welfare caseload has dropped very little since the higher wage phase began in Seattle in April. In March 130,851 people were enrolled in the Basic Food program. In April, the caseload dropped to 130,376.
...
Some restaurants have tacked on a 15 percent surcharge to cover the higher wages. And some managers are no longer encouraging customers to tip, leading to a redistribution of income. Workers in the back of the kitchen, such as dishwashers and cooks, are getting paid more, but servers who rely on tips are seeing a pay cut.

Is the $15/hr figure too low to live off? Does it need to be $20/hr? $25/hr? When will it be high enough that it makes more than the government assistance programs for the poor? We all know that no one is living on assistance because they find it easy. We know every single one of them wants full time employment. We know they want to be proud and make their own way. Of this there is no question. So what is going on?
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Message 1704134 - Posted: 22 Jul 2015, 21:59:45 UTC

So what is going on?

Gary I do consider the source, Faux news. Since I live across Puget Sound from Seattle and most of my local news comes from there I hear of very few locals complaining. Most seem to find it to be a non event since it has not gone into effect yet.
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Message 1704139 - Posted: 22 Jul 2015, 22:37:12 UTC - in response to Message 1704134.  
Last modified: 22 Jul 2015, 22:38:59 UTC

So what is going on?

Gary I do consider the source, Faux news.
Faux sourced the story as Jason Rantz. Apparently a local talk radio rant.
Since I live across Puget Sound from Seattle and most of my local news comes from there I hear of very few locals complaining. Most seem to find it to be a non event since it has not gone into effect yet.
About what I expected.
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Message 1704142 - Posted: 22 Jul 2015, 22:51:42 UTC

Came across something similar years ago while working for Ryder's. We had 2 types of runs, local & long-distance.

On the local runs, 9/10 one had 2 boxes (demountable units). Certain drivers refused to work their 2nd box as it pushed their working day beyond 16:30.

This interfered with their "Working Tax Credits"

On a personal note, I'm glad that the government has introduced a cap on paying for children - you want kids, you support them, not the state.
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Message 1704197 - Posted: 23 Jul 2015, 7:04:08 UTC - in response to Message 1704130.  

Didn't take long for Faux to come up with this:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/22/seattle-sees-fallout-from-15-minimum-wage-as-other-cities-follow-suit/
Seattle’s $15 minimum wage law is supposed to lift workers out of poverty and move them off public assistance. But there may be a hitch in the plan.

Evidence is surfacing that some workers are asking their bosses for fewer hours as their wages rise – in a bid to keep overall income down so they don’t lose public subsidies for things like food, child care and rent.

Full Life Care, a home nursing nonprofit, told KIRO-TV in Seattle that several workers want to work less.

“If they cut down their hours to stay on those subsidies because the $15 per hour minimum wage didn’t actually help get them out of poverty, all you’ve done is put a burden on the business and given false hope to a lot of people,” said Jason Rantz, host of the Jason Rantz show on 97.3 KIRO-FM.
...
The notion that employees are intentionally working less to preserve their welfare has been a hot topic on talk radio. While the claims are difficult to track, state stats indeed suggest few are moving off welfare programs under the new wage.

Despite a booming economy throughout western Washington, the state’s welfare caseload has dropped very little since the higher wage phase began in Seattle in April. In March 130,851 people were enrolled in the Basic Food program. In April, the caseload dropped to 130,376.
...
Some restaurants have tacked on a 15 percent surcharge to cover the higher wages. And some managers are no longer encouraging customers to tip, leading to a redistribution of income. Workers in the back of the kitchen, such as dishwashers and cooks, are getting paid more, but servers who rely on tips are seeing a pay cut.

Is the $15/hr figure too low to live off? Does it need to be $20/hr? $25/hr? When will it be high enough that it makes more than the government assistance programs for the poor? We all know that no one is living on assistance because they find it easy. We know every single one of them wants full time employment. We know they want to be proud and make their own way. Of this there is no question. So what is going on?

New York is trying for the $15.00 an hour wage for fast food resturants.
I need to to quit my freaking CNC machiniong job that only pays me $17.10 and hour, That comes with doing precise work and a lot of job stress,
And flip freaking burgers 40 hours a week?
And here I thought places like that were entry leveljobs and jobs for folks who needed a little extra income?
So fast food is the next new middle class jobs? I can hear the layoffs hapening now.
Im sorry sir you dont have a degree in fast food preperation to work here.
[/quote]

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Message 1704228 - Posted: 23 Jul 2015, 10:36:58 UTC - in response to Message 1704197.  

Im sorry sir you dont have a degree in fast food preperation to work here.


My thoughts exactly. Great James' think alike?
-"Young" James

"To my mathematical brain, the numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly rational. The real challenge is to work out what aliens might actually be like." -Steven Hawking
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Message 1704248 - Posted: 23 Jul 2015, 12:53:05 UTC
Last modified: 23 Jul 2015, 12:55:08 UTC

In Utrecht Netherlands starts an experiment with citizen salary after the summer. The idea is to see if society could function effectively if everyone received a base salary from the state, gratuitous.

What happens when you give people one month without requiring performance and controls? Will people become passive or contributes to society?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dutch-city-of-utrecht-to-experiment-with-a-universal-unconditional-income-10345595.html
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Message 1704267 - Posted: 23 Jul 2015, 14:09:34 UTC - in response to Message 1704260.  

It must be :-)
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Message 1704549 - Posted: 24 Jul 2015, 7:37:45 UTC - in response to Message 1704228.  
Last modified: 24 Jul 2015, 7:38:26 UTC

Im sorry sir you dont have a degree in fast food preperation to work here.


My thoughts exactly. Great James' think alike?

My point was and or is. That those burger flipping jobs wont go to teenage kids working part time.Or the person who needs a little hepl for a while making ends meet.
They will let go all full timers and only hire full time 40 hours a week folks.
So for some that means two shifts of full timers. And some that are open 24/7 3 shifts. And id wager a some staffs cuts in them as well.
[/quote]

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Message 1704639 - Posted: 24 Jul 2015, 14:43:20 UTC - in response to Message 1704632.  
Last modified: 24 Jul 2015, 14:47:27 UTC

Im sorry sir you dont have a degree in fast food preperation to work here.


My thoughts exactly. Great James' think alike?

My point was and or is. That those burger flipping jobs wont go to teenage kids working part time.Or the person who needs a little hepl for a while making ends meet.
They will let go all full timers and only hire full time 40 hours a week folks.
So for some that means two shifts of full timers. And some that are open 24/7 3 shifts. And id wager a some staffs cuts in them as well.

The Middle Class. Both former Working Union and Service Industry, is slipping into The Working Poor.

Does The Left understand? Do they care?

What is their solution to this?

Tax The Rich, and dole out money to those THEY believe are worthy?

Income Equality will only result in Poor Equality. As always.

Best Solution: Increase the Wealth and Economy's of Corrupt Western Capitalism, within Western Countries.

AND: Counterbalance that with Strong, Large, and Corrupt Private Unions.

In this case: Two Negatives result in a Positive. For the Workers and Capitalists.

I do understand that Academicians and Ideologues, despise Practical Solutions, which have worked in the past.

Who cares. Why would anyone, considering their past failures, listen to them, or follow their advice?

I read this today.
The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/upshot/the-american-middle-class-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html
The poor in much of Europe earn more than poor Americans.

“The idea that the median American has so much more income than the middle class in all other parts of the world is not true these days,” said Lawrence Katz, a Harvard economist who is not associated with LIS. “In 1960, we were massively richer than anyone else. In 1980, we were richer. In the 1990s, we were still richer.”
That is no longer the case, Professor Katz added.
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Message 1704668 - Posted: 24 Jul 2015, 16:08:19 UTC - in response to Message 1704632.  

Best Solution: Increase the Wealth and Economy's of Corrupt Western Capitalism, within Western Countries.

AND: Counterbalance that with Strong, Large, and Corrupt Private Unions.

In this case: Two Negatives result in a Positive. For the Workers and Capitalists.

I do understand that Academicians and Ideologues, despise Practical Solutions, which have worked in the past.

HAH! You think 'increase wealth and economy' is a practical solution? Like its just a matter of flipping a switch and suddenly the economy will grow and people will just earn more money? If it were that easy, poverty wouldn't exist.

Improve the economy is something every politician promises these days. There is no politician and there has never been a politician that wanted to have a shrinking economy with less wealth for everyone. Of course, its easy to make a promise like that, its almost impossible to actually do it. Frankly the economy is completely out of control of any politician. Their policies have only a minor influence on economic performance, far more influential on the economy are the financial markets. They decide whether the economy improves or not, and they are not beholden to any politician.
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Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
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Message 1704684 - Posted: 24 Jul 2015, 17:45:10 UTC - in response to Message 1704670.  

HAH! You think 'increase wealth and economy' is a practical solution? Like its just a matter of flipping a switch and suddenly the economy will grow and people will just earn more money? If it were that easy, poverty wouldn't exist.

Of course it is not easy. I am neither an Ideologue, Left Winger, Right Winger, nor think as Academia.

Мишель...

Why would you believe that.

Posting history?
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Message 1704685 - Posted: 24 Jul 2015, 17:51:27 UTC - in response to Message 1704668.  

Best Solution: Increase the Wealth and Economy's of Corrupt Western Capitalism, within Western Countries.

AND: Counterbalance that with Strong, Large, and Corrupt Private Unions.

In this case: Two Negatives result in a Positive. For the Workers and Capitalists.

I do understand that Academicians and Ideologues, despise Practical Solutions, which have worked in the past.

HAH! You think 'increase wealth and economy' is a practical solution? Like its just a matter of flipping a switch and suddenly the economy will grow and people will just earn more money? If it were that easy, poverty wouldn't exist.

Improve the economy is something every politician promises these days. There is no politician and there has never been a politician that wanted to have a shrinking economy with less wealth for everyone. Of course, its easy to make a promise like that, its almost impossible to actually do it. Frankly the economy is completely out of control of any politician. Their policies have only a minor influence on economic performance, far more influential on the economy are the financial markets. They decide whether the economy improves or not, and they are not beholden to any politician.
A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage. - Herbert Hoover

The only time a president ever did something with the economy, in peacetime, was, "First, I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the Earth."
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Message 1704841 - Posted: 25 Jul 2015, 6:42:06 UTC - in response to Message 1704685.  

Best Solution: Increase the Wealth and Economy's of Corrupt Western Capitalism, within Western Countries.

AND: Counterbalance that with Strong, Large, and Corrupt Private Unions.

In this case: Two Negatives result in a Positive. For the Workers and Capitalists.

I do understand that Academicians and Ideologues, despise Practical Solutions, which have worked in the past.

HAH! You think 'increase wealth and economy' is a practical solution? Like its just a matter of flipping a switch and suddenly the economy will grow and people will just earn more money? If it were that easy, poverty wouldn't exist.

Improve the economy is something every politician promises these days. There is no politician and there has never been a politician that wanted to have a shrinking economy with less wealth for everyone. Of course, its easy to make a promise like that, its almost impossible to actually do it. Frankly the economy is completely out of control of any politician. Their policies have only a minor influence on economic performance, far more influential on the economy are the financial markets. They decide whether the economy improves or not, and they are not beholden to any politician.
A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage. - Herbert Hoover

The only time a president ever did something with the economy, in peacetime, was, "First, I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the Earth."

JFK had vision. And at the time we had the political will to do the job.
Why you ask? Beacuse as a nation we were afarid the Soviets would get there first.
[/quote]

Old James
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Message 1704959 - Posted: 25 Jul 2015, 16:34:37 UTC - in response to Message 1704841.  

Best Solution: Increase the Wealth and Economy's of Corrupt Western Capitalism, within Western Countries.

AND: Counterbalance that with Strong, Large, and Corrupt Private Unions.

In this case: Two Negatives result in a Positive. For the Workers and Capitalists.

I do understand that Academicians and Ideologues, despise Practical Solutions, which have worked in the past.

HAH! You think 'increase wealth and economy' is a practical solution? Like its just a matter of flipping a switch and suddenly the economy will grow and people will just earn more money? If it were that easy, poverty wouldn't exist.

Improve the economy is something every politician promises these days. There is no politician and there has never been a politician that wanted to have a shrinking economy with less wealth for everyone. Of course, its easy to make a promise like that, its almost impossible to actually do it. Frankly the economy is completely out of control of any politician. Their policies have only a minor influence on economic performance, far more influential on the economy are the financial markets. They decide whether the economy improves or not, and they are not beholden to any politician.
A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage. - Herbert Hoover

The only time a president ever did something with the economy, in peacetime, was, "First, I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the Earth."

JFK had vision. And at the time we had the political will to do the job.
Why you ask? Beacuse as a nation we were afarid the Soviets would get there first.

Perhaps we need to be afraid ET will get there first?
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Message 1705011 - Posted: 25 Jul 2015, 20:01:56 UTC - in response to Message 1705002.  

Guy, that's a nice fairy tale, did you make it up by yourself? Taxes are the price of civilization.
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Message 1705025 - Posted: 25 Jul 2015, 21:27:30 UTC - in response to Message 1705011.  

Guy, that's a nice fairy tale, did you make it up by yourself? Taxes are the price of civilization.

Yeah ,lets see him name one country in the past that didnt require taxes or tribute?
[/quote]

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Message 1705056 - Posted: 26 Jul 2015, 0:35:43 UTC - in response to Message 1705049.  

Guy, that's a nice fairy tale, did you make it up by yourself? Taxes are the price of civilization.

Yeah ,lets see him name one country in the past that didnt require taxes or tribute?

argumentum ad absurdum

Guy, say what you will but the fact is than man is a social animal. Those who choose to live in societies do much better than those who don't. If you are going to live in a society, a contribution is needed to sustain the society. The alternative is anarchy. Some years ago I asked you if you were an anarchist and you denied being one. What has changed with you? The reason I ask is that your gem that started this thread goes right there.
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Message boards : Politics : To Work or Not?


 
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