Thank you for speaking up Cliff. I think many of your points were spot-on.

I try very hard to not comment in these threads, but there are times when an attempt to put things in their proper perspective must be made. Unless someone has lived life on my side of the street or have attended American History classes that included a good deal of the African-American history that was not being glossed over or not mentioned at all, many of the things that I have discussed do not appear in normal American History lesson plans. Fortunately, My paternal grandmother, bless her sainted soul, was a retired high school teacher from Kentucky, and taught us many things beyond the normal curriculum about the history of our nation.

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I don't buy computers, I build them!!

I don't believe in the Philosophy of 'Sins of the Grandfather...' ALL of us should now have a Conversation. Continually dredging up Past Sins, and not correcting Present Sins, will only result in Shouting and Yelling at each other.

Now if the middle east could do the same .......

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Continually dredging up Past Sins, and not correcting Present Sins, will only result in Shouting and Yelling at each other.

Just my opinion.

+1

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Over the years, racism in the USA has dwindled because of the ongoing dialog. Especially the racism against African-Americans. Great progress has been made. There is still some left to go, and it is past time for the dialog to resume in earnest.

I disagree, racism in this country has not dwindled because of the ongoing dialog, it has just been driven more underground. A very straight example is when the Supreme Court strucked down the most powerful section of the 1965 Voting Right Act. Within hours the Tea/Republican party started placing into voter ID laws that are in a sense nothing but poll taxes. Most of these laws that have been challenged in court have been deemed unconstitutional. The main reasoning for these laws is the so called voter fraud, of which is basically non-extent. The only fraud that has been determined so far has been accomplished by the same party that is claiming the fraud. Jim Crow has grown up and gone to college and is now James Crow, Esq.

Yes, the national dialog has been going on for many years, but that dialog needs to deepen to the extent that souls are bared and all pretentions laid bare to fully understand the scope and breath of it. As to imply that all of President Obama's opponents are racially motivated may have been misconstrued and I take fault in that statement. But, when the leaders of a particular political party, mainly those in Congress, expounds that the president is not American and nobody in the party stands against them, what is one to think. There has only been one instance since his announcement to run for the office that a Tea/Republican party member had stood up to such ugliness and he was shot down within a matter of minutes and that was Senator John McCain during one of his town talks. There has never been any rise against the rancor against President Obama within the Tea/Republican rank & file when it comes to where he was born or what religion he is. If he was a white president, do you honestly believe that all of the rancor and decisiveness against him would have occurred? The speech on race that President Obama made to the national audience was accepted by the greater majority of the populace, except the leaders of the Tea/Republican party and a good majority of the rank & file.

My opposition to Obama is SOLELY because of some (not even all) of his policies. I don't give a rat's behind how much pigmentation he has in his skin.

My question is which policies are you opposed to? Is it TARP, which was started and signed into law by George W. Bush and President Obama used part of it to bail out the auto industry, which, btw, is stronger then it way before he took office and if left to the Tea/Republican party there wouldn't be one today?

Is the ACA, which was a Tea/Republican idea, which even though it did have it problems at the start and still have some hiccups, has provided 11+ million people that would otherwise not have health insurance to have it. Medical costs on the whole have come down significantly and according to the CBO will cost less then originally forecasted. Where is the Tea/Republican replacement for the ACA that they have spent time to cast 50+ votes and millions of dollars to repeal or replace? Still waiting.....

Is it the national debt, which has been cut by almost two-thirds since he took office?

Is it the stock market, which, btw has grown to its highest since he took office?

Is it the fact that he is simply doing something about the immigration problem, and that every president has done the same thing since Eisenhower? Each time a president has did something about immigration it has been via his presidential ruling and each time it has accounted for more illegal immigrants coming into the country via a legal pathway. BTW, each time it has happened the amount of immigrants covered has be greatly increased, so why is there a problem with this president doing the same?

Jobs.. Every job initiative that the President has tried to initiate has been shot down as job killers by the Tea/Republicans, but they have never stated any such initiative of their own.

Minimum wage? The president's statement of wanting $10.10 an hour as the federal minimum wage limit seems to have been on the right course, despite Tea/Republicans claims it will kill jobs. More and more companies and states are taking up the mantle and raising the minimum limit on their own.

Bank reform?.. Even now the Tea/Republicans, now that they are in almost total control of Congress, are attempting to find ways to weaken what reforms there are.

Is it that he is doing something like talking to our enemies like Cuba? Attempting to bring some sort of semblance to how we interact with them? Ostracizing Cuba since the 50's hasn't worked has it. Maybe, just maybe diplomacy might do the trick, since there hasn't been any recorded attempts at Cuban terrorism since the mid 90's.

Is it attempting to avert another war in the Middle East with Iran over their nuclear capabilities?

Again, I ask where was the outrage when Nixon or Reagan attempted to talk peace with Russia and China?

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I don't buy computers, I build them!!

Judge Taney has also been quoted when referring to the language of the Declaration of Independence that includes the phrase, "all men are created equal,"

"it is too clear for dispute, that the enslaved African race were not intended to be included, and formed no part of the people who framed and adopted this declaration. . . ."

However, it was Lincoln, with a 'few brief remarks', on a hot summer day in 1863, who changed the meaning. Or at least, started the change.

Yes, Lincoln did attempt to start the change and I agree there have been significant change, but not nearly enough. I can't walk down the street without being profiled even in my 3-piece suit or driving my expansive car. There are some places in this country, that if I was still in the military, I can't wear my uniform without be accosted, not be cause I'm in uniform, but because I'm wearing bloused boots and a read beret with senior parachutist wings, simply because of the pigmentation of my skin.

the only difference between Barrack Hussein Obama and Rafael Edward "Ted" Cruz...

I don't believe either should be President. Nixon was elected Twice. Also a Bad President. Just my opinion. Nothing due with Race, of course.

What are your reasons for stating that President Obama is a bad president?

Getting back to my original argument.

I don't believe in the Philosophy of 'Sins of the Grandfather...' ALL of us should now have a Conversation. Continually dredging up Past Sins, and not correcting Present Sins, will only result in Shouting and Yelling at each other.

Sometimes the 'Sins of the Grandfather...' must be drawn into the conversation to fully understand the implications of today. To correct a problem you must go back to the beginning and work forward.

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I don't buy computers, I build them!!

Jobs.. Every job initiative that the President has tried to initiate has been shot down as job killers by the Tea/Republicans, but they have never stated any such initiative of their own.

Example...SOLENDRA?

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Neither, unlike (using a recent figure) Bill Clinton (A Great Politician), knows, nor cares about, necessary compromise.

Oh please. If you think that Obama doesn't want to compromise then you don't understand what the concept means.

A compromise is when both parties reach each other somewhere in the middle. Obama made plenty of moves towards the middle, but the republicans never met him there. When republicans talk about compromising with Obama they really mean they want everything to go 100% their way. And even that is probably impossible given how Republicans, on multiple occasions have switched their positions once Obama agreed with them. Remember Bergdahl? Multiple Republican politicians were initially arguing that Obama should trade prisoners with the Taliban if it meant they got Bergdahl back. And then when he did it, they suddenly started complaining that Obama had done what they had argued for. Or Russia, where some Republicans initially insisted on targeted sanctions against key Russian individuals and then when Obama did that they started complaining about it.

Obama cannot work with the Republicans because the Republicans don't want to work with Obama. Since the start of Obama's presidency they have been telling the American people what an absolutely horrible president he is and how everything he does is wrong. They made it impossible for themselves to agree with him because that would undermine their message (if Obama is so bad at everything, then why are you agreeing with him on this or that issue?). And that of course makes them vulnerable as well, from Tea Party extremists who will use agreeing with Obama on something against them.

You will agree that people who look at Black Persons, and think (negative),
and look at White Persons and think (negative),
and look at Asians and think (negative),
and look at Women and think (negative),
and look at Men and think (negative),
and look at Gays and think (negative),
and look at Straights and think (negative),
and look at... and think (negative), are the same.

Replace the Word negative to positive in the statement:)

You will agree that people who look at Black Persons, and think (negative),
and look at White Persons and think (negative),
and look at Asians and think (negative),
and look at Women and think (negative),
and look at Men and think (negative),
and look at Gays and think (negative),
and look at Straights and think (negative),
and look at... and think (negative), are the same.

Replace the Word negative to positive in the statement:)

How about Judging an Individual, as an Individual.

Neither positive, nor negative, until they show what they Individually, are.

Colorblind Ideology Is a Form of Racism

At its face value, colorblindness seems like a good thing — really taking MLK seriously on his call to judge people on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin. It focuses on commonalities between people, such as their shared humanity.

However, colorblindness alone is not sufficient to heal racial wounds on a national or personal level. It is only a half-measure that in the end operates as a form of racism.

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Reality Internet Personality

Monnica Williams wrote:

However, colorblindness alone is not sufficient to heal racial wounds on a national or personal level. It is only a half-measure that in the end operates as a form of racism.

http://louisville.edu/psychology/williams wrote:

Williams, M. T., Malcoun, E., Sawyer, B., Davis, D. M., Bahojb-Nouri, L. V., & Bruce, S. L. (2014). Cultural Adaptations of Prolonged Exposure Therapy for Treatment and Prevention of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder in African Americans. Behavioral Sciences — Special Issue: PTSD and Treatment Considerations, 4(2), 102-124. doi:10.3390/bs4020102.
Chapman, L. K., DeLapp, R.C.T., & Williams, M. T. (2013). Cognitive-Behavioral Treatment of Social Anxiety among Ethnic Minority Patients, Part 1: Understanding Differences. Directions in Psychiatry, 33(3), 151-162.
Chapman, L. K., DeLapp, R.C.T., & Williams, M. T. (2013). Cognitive-Behavioral Treatment of Social Anxiety among Ethnic Minority Patients, Part 2: Bridging the Gap in Treatment. Directions in Psychiatry, 33(3), 163-176.
Williams, M. T., Tellawi, G., Wetterneck, C. T., & Chapman, L. K. (2013). Recruitment of Ethnoracial Minorities for Mental Health Research. The Behavior Therapist, 36(6), 151-156.
Williams, M. T., Davis, D., Thibodeau, M., & Bach, N. (2013). Psychometric Properties of the Obsessive-Compulsive Inventory Revised in African Americans with and without Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. Journal of Obsessive-Compulsive & Related Disorders, 2(4), 399-405. doi: 10.1016/j.jocrd.2013.07.003
Williams, M. T., Wetterneck, C. T., Thibodeau, M., & Duque, G. (2013). Validation of the Yale-Brown Obsessive Compulsive Severity Scale in African Americans with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. Psychiatry Research, 209(2), 30, 214-221. doi: 10.1016/j.psychres.2013.04.007
Williams, M. T., Beckmann-Mendez, D., & Turkheimer, E. (2013). Cultural Barriers to African American Participation in Anxiety Disorders Research. Journal of the National Medical Association, 105(1), 33-41.
Williams, M. T., Chapman, L. K., Wong, J., & Turkheimer, E. (2012). The Role of Ethnic Identity in Symptoms of Anxiety and Depression in African Americans. Psychiatry Research, 199, 31-36. doi: 10.1016/j.psychres.2012.03.049
Williams, M. T., Domanico, J., Marques, L., Leblanc, N., & Turkheimer, E. (2012). Barriers to Treatment of African Americans with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. Journal of Anxiety Disorders – Special Issue, 26(4), 555-563. doi: 10.1016/j.janxdis.2012.02.009
Williams, M. T., Proetto, D., Casiano, D., & Franklin, M. E. (2012). Recruitment of a Hidden Population: African Americans with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. Contemporary Clinical Trials, 33(1), 67-75. doi: 10.1016/j.cct.2011.09.001
Williams, M., Powers, M., Yun, Y. G., & Foa, E. B. (2010). Minority Representation in Randomized Controlled Trials for Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. Journal of Anxiety Disorders, 24, 171-177.
DeLapp, R. C. T., & Williams, M. T. (in press). Professional Challenges Facing African American Psychologists: The Presence and Impact of Racial Microaggressions. The Behavior Therapist.

I am getting the feeling someone is a bit OCD on the subject and perhaps personally involved.

I simply point out that as long as the system isn't color blind, and has built in unfairness, there will be resentments generated. That will give the KKK and their ilk a ready pool of people to recruit essentially perpetuating the problem forever in the future.

She is right in that rich privilege will distort society. Classism, like the untouchables in India. What has been tried is to force rich privilege onto the occasional poor person. A better approach would be to block richness from being able to use privilege.

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I am getting the feeling someone is a bit OCD on the subject and perhaps personally involved.

You mean to say that someone who clearly spend her professional career researching the cultural dimension of mental disorders, is too involved to make statements about how color blindness is in itself a form of racism, which is something that would fall squarely in her field of research? Are you serious?

We are going to disagree on voter fraud & 'voter id', it seems. Perhaps it is a subject for another thread.

If he was a white president, do you honestly believe that all of the rancor and decisiveness against him would have occurred?

Two words: President Clinton.

It already HAS occurred against 'white' presidents. I think you are confusing partisan rancor with racism.

TARP: That was Dubya's doing, including the GM/Chrysler bailouts (Dec. 19, 2008). And I am still against TARP.

ACA: Health Care in the USA was broken. The ACA made it worse, much worse.

National Debt: Has not declined since Obama took office.
I call BS on this one.
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

09/30/2014 $17,824,071,380,733.82
09/30/2013 $16,738,183,526,697.32
09/30/2012 $16,066,241,407,385.89
09/30/2011 $14,790,340,328,557.15
09/30/2010 $13,561,623,030,891.79
09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75 (Obama took office during this FY).
09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49

As of Friday, April 3, 2015, per Table III-C of
https://www.fms.treas.gov/fmsweb/viewDTSFiles?dir=w&fname=15040300.pdf

04/03/2015 $18,112,975,000,000.00

That is not a 2/3rds reduction, not even a reduction at all...
That is a huge increase under President Obama.

Stock Market: Gains due to huge bubble caused by the 'economic stimulus' done by Obama's administration. When stimulus ends, the stock market will tank.

Immigration: Current system is totally borked. Obama's programs are counter-productive, only encouraging further illegal immigration. What is needed is to realign the quotas to match those wanting to immigrate, and increase the total amount. Also, a guest worker program would be nice for those that just want to come to the USA to work for a time, then return home.

Jobs: I can think of one jobs program that Obama could have supported but chose not to. The Keystone XL pipeline. Thousands of good union jobs during construction. Dozens to hundreds of good high-paying jobs from then on in refining the oil the pipeline would transport. And best, it would be done with 100% private money.

Minimum wage: counter productive. Increases in the minimum wage will not only slow down job growth but also leave the people it is designed to help further behind that they were.

These are some I object to.

In favor of:

Bank reform: I think banks are perhaps under-regulated.

Cuba: I've been in favor of easing restrictions on Cuba since just before the USSR collapsed. While the sanctions might have been necessary while Cuba was a USSR client state, once the USSR started withdrawing their support, the Cuban people really started suffering. My only gripe at Obama about it is 'what took you so long?'.

Iran: Diplomacy is preferable to war, and I applaud Obama for having the stones to actually try it. But, that said, I think that Obama may be a tad naive about Iran's intentions and motives re: their nuclear program.

(Outrage about Nixon and China? RIGHT HERE.)

One you did NOT mention I am in favor of: Obama's student loan repayment/forgiveness programs.

Education is vital. But it has a high price. $50,000+ of debt for a 4-year degree at a *STATE* university??!!??!?

I think the financial aspects of higher education are in desperate need of reform. While these policies of Obama's are not quite the needed reform, they ARE a much-needed band-aid on the problem while we wait on the reforms needed.

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I think you are guilty of believing a false dichotomy. That it is either the Democrats (left of center) or the Republicans (right of center). There are other political options out there.

I think you are guilty of believing a false dichotomy. That it is either the Democrats (left of center) or the Republicans (right of center). There are other political options out there.

Dichotomy:) well that was a difficult Word.
It's a noun and means, a division or contrast between two things that are or are represented as being opposed or entirely different.
Swedish dikotomi.
Meaning split views.
We are more pragmatic over here:)

That is not a 2/3rds reduction, not even a reduction at all...
That is a huge increase under President Obama.

Stock Market: Gains due to huge bubble caused by the 'economic stimulus' done by Obama's administration. When stimulus ends, the stock market will tank.

Immigration: Current system is totally borked. Obama's programs are counter-productive, only encouraging further illegal immigration. What is needed is to realign the quotas to match those wanting to immigrate, and increase the total amount. Also, a guest worker program would be nice for those that just want to come to the USA to work for a time, then return home.

Jobs: I can think of one jobs program that Obama could have supported but chose not to. The Keystone XL pipeline. Thousands of good union jobs during construction. Dozens to hundreds of good high-paying jobs from then on in refining the oil the pipeline would transport. And best, it would be done with 100% private money.

Yes very true and i support some of the above

Minimum wage: counter productive. Increases in the minimum wage will not only slow down job growth but also leave the people it is designed to help further behind that they were.

I have to disagree with this one Kong , we have had a minimum wage here for a long time and your excuse is used here anytime there is a increase in the minimum wage but facts tell a different story and again you must look here we have had it for approx 30 years

In favor of:

Bank reform: I think banks are perhaps under-regulated.

Cuba: I've been in favor of easing restrictions on Cuba since just before the USSR collapsed. While the sanctions might have been necessary while Cuba was a USSR client state, once the USSR started withdrawing their support, the Cuban people really started suffering. My only gripe at Obama about it is 'what took you so long?'.

Iran: Diplomacy is preferable to war, and I applaud Obama for having the stones to actually try it. But, that said, I think that Obama may be a tad naive about Iran's intentions and motives re: their nuclear program.

I agree with this one

Education is vital. But it has a high price. $50,000+ of debt for a 4-year degree at a *STATE* university??!!??!?

I think the financial aspects of higher education are in desperate need of reform. While these policies of Obama's are not quite the needed reform, they ARE a much-needed band-aid on the problem while we wait on the reforms needed.

The problem here is that you will never go for a system like ours because it would mean the Federal gov would have to pick up the bill for what it costs and what can be charged ,....AKA: a socialist type of system a BIG NO IN YOUR COUNTRY

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I think you are guilty of believing a false dichotomy. That it is either the Democrats (left of center) or the Republicans (right of center). There are other political options out there.

Dichotomy:) well that was a difficult Word.
It's a noun and means, a division or contrast between two things that are or are represented as being opposed or entirely different.
Swedish dikotomi.
Meaning split views.
We are more pragmatic over here:)

A good definition of 'false dichotomy' is the following:

A false dilemma, or false dichotomy, is a logical fallacy which involves presenting two opposing views, options or outcomes in such a way that they seem to be the only possibilities: that is, if one is true, the other must be false, or, more typically, if you do not accept one then the other must be accepted.

I am getting the feeling someone is a bit OCD on the subject and perhaps personally involved.

You mean to say that someone who clearly spend her professional career researching the cultural dimension of mental disorders, is too involved to make statements about how color blindness is in itself a form of racism, which is something that would fall squarely in her field of research? Are you serious?

I don't think Gary understands how academic research works. :/

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Reality Internet Personality

Perhaps raising wages slow down job growth because the ones that create the jobs are sad they have a few less pennies. They want to take their ball and go home. Give me a mathematical proof it must occur this way. Don't throw me something like the Laffer Curve. I believe that was created as "this is the way things ought to be".

"Voter ID". Look at my picture on the left. Look hard. Do I look Mexican to you? If no, good, you can tell I am of English, Irish and German descent.

But I live around several Hispanics or Latinos or whatever the correct term. Close to Christmas 2013 or so, I had a Mexican guy ask me to sing "Feliz Navidad" with him at karaoke. I said, "I don't know Spanish." He was shocked. He said he thought I was Mexican and told me he was.

Inspired by that, along with the Voter ID laws here, I taunted people over seeing the fall 2014 election. I provided several pieces of supporting documents, along with a picture ID. But not a driver's license. Then I asked, "Do I look Mexican?" (Guy next to me said, "No, but if you were, we'd have to let you vote even if you were an illegal immigrant." What a bunch of unsubstantiated crap.)

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

A good definition of 'false dichotomy' is the following:

A false dilemma, or false dichotomy, is a logical fallacy which involves presenting two opposing views, options or outcomes in such a way that they seem to be the only possibilities: that is, if one is true, the other must be false, or, more typically, if you do not accept one then the other must be accepted.

Thanks Major Kong.
It takes about a few seconds to read the definition.
About an half hour to understand it.
Negation statements are very hard to follow.
Both in Boolean math, Philosophy and computer programming:)

He said he thought I was Mexican and told me he was.

Interesting. Many moons ago, when I used to work retail, I had a similar experience while working the electronics booth. Happened on more than one occasion too. Latinos would come up to me and start speaking in Spanish, and when I looked confused they would say, "?Se hablas Espanol?". I learned to say "Se um pouco".

And no, I'm not of Latin/Hispanic descent at all. I'm probably whiter than Casper.

when I looked confused they would say, "?Se hablas Espanol?". I learned to say "Se um pouco".

Try say "Puedo un poco" instead:)