OK so before you read the rest of this, please take the time to read this little bit. I am not interested in recriminations though they WILL happen so this time I am not getting into it. Please note that comment is directed at the general populace, not the coders.

Report:

Win XPSP2:

An interesting sorta problem. I have a latop using a P3 1.13Ghz that I do Seti through Boinc on (which I will call Boinc/Seti for the hell of it. Note that I dont do other Boinc project work). On the laptop it is almost always not a problem. The occasional problem Boinc causes on XPSP2 on that machine cant be pinned down by me as yet so there's no use going on about it but note that I shut Boinc/Seti down and the rest of the laptop probs being experienced at that moment instantly go away - UNLESS, like yesterday, it was a stinking hot day (well it IS Summer!) in which case my laptop, known to play up when it gets that hot, plays up. Normal days and in Winter it isnt ever a problem so you can see that the biggest problem is I have a cheap (and I dont mean cost) brand laptop where the cooling isnt adequate in Summer if left on for extended periods. Turn it off and it is OK for an hour or so after turning it back on again when it has cooled down. This still doesnt get to why it plays up with Boinc/Seti on cooler days (such as happened last week with a top of 15C in Summer which was GREAT for a Summer day!). Still no leads on that.

XPSP2 on P4 3.4 with multithreading using, to put the term loosely, "2 CPUs". We all know - for clarity - it isnt a motherboard with 2 physical CPUs or even the slots for 2. OK? Anyway, I now have 1 gig of dual channel DDR running fast.

The problem with the P4 was that Boinc/Seti would not show the project, would not show the work listed being done or to be done, wouldnt show work to be transferred and wouldnt show anything. Terminating the prog then restarting it did nothing. Rebooting, once in a great while, did something but mostly didnt. I changed my prefs on the web site here to 1 CPU and removed Boinc/Seti and reinstalled which, as it turns out, allows the prog to run normally for that session only. I got it to update on the web site and it went to 1 CPU. I rebooted and still the problems. I uninstalled and reinstalled, finally getting rid of all transfers (7 to send back now lost to me) and all work ready to be done thinking that just maybe, in some way I couldnt work out, that had something to do with it. Nothing. No change after reinstall.

So, in a last ditch desperate effort before throwing the damned thing out as I was getting mighty upset with it, I uninstalled it AGAIN and then went on a hunt on C drive for anything with "boinc" in it and deleted it. Apart from the leftover folder containing the work and such, I found, interestingly, "boinc.MSI" which is the installer for the prog. It would appear that boinc.MSI is never cleaned up after the install successfully completes. So, I had a Boinc.MSI sitting there never overwritten by the install routine and taking over from it. I have no idea which VERSION of Boinc/Seti that was from so in case the MSI changed from some other version to 4.56, it may have been the whole reason for my heartache. WHY? Since finding and deleting it, I reinstalled 4.56 and for 12 hours of turning the machine off and on, now updated to use 2 CPUs again, there hasnt been a problem. I reserve judgement, naturally, as 12 hours isnt long enough to be 100% sure but there it is.

So, coders, how about deleting boinc.MSI after a successful install? It may save future problems.

WIN98SE

The problem still exists under 4.56 of Boinc/Seti with this OS. All runs quite OK but you can NOT shut it down with the Start button then Shut Down, nor can you reboot it using that nor can my backup prog do it either to backup (image backup using Drive Image 2002). In all of those cases, Boinc/Seti complains that IT has to be shut down FIRST thus my machines wont backup unless I remember to shut Boinc/Seti down manually, first. In fact the ONLY prog that I have that will cause the machines to shut down when Boinc/Seti is running is Wizmo by Steve Gibson set to rudely FORCE a shutdown no matter what. You can see that COULD cause problems, no doubt. So why wont Boinc/Seti respond to a Windows shutdown or an attempt to shut down using my backup prog which uses the normal windows shutdown procedure itself? Earlier versions of Boinc/Seti allowed it OK. Why the change here?

Anyway, that's all the info I have for now and as I said above, I am not entering into recriminations with anybody. This is JUST a bug report and as I have found out WHY it wasnt working well with my 2 CPU P4 and also how easy it is to fix for the coders, I hope it will be added to the code.

Thanks,

Greg.

Suggestion,

1. If you are alpha testing then you should post this to
the Alpha Newsgroups Not here!

2. There is a reason they warn
you the the release is buggy.

3. Please report this to the Alpha site.


Thanks,

Timmy

---

> Suggestion,
>
> 1. If you are alpha testing then you should post this to
> the Alpha Newsgroups Not here!
>
> 2. There is a reason they warn
> you the the release is buggy.
>
> 3. Please report this to the Alpha site.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Timmy
>

That's one point I missed.

I am using those versions because it was forced on me. Boic/Seti forced an update on me that basically deleted completed WUs before I could return them if I wasnt connected to the net at the time. In order to stop wasting my time, I had to move to 4.56.

I am using the Alpha version 4.56 out of necessity and have no idea to what you refer when you say Alpha Site so this is where I, along with others, report bugs.

Thanks for bringing that point up that I missed.

timmy the problem is that you have to be a member of the alpha site to post there. plus janus is the only one that is ever there and as far as i can tell he/she is only in control of the message boards at the boinc alpha\beta sites and the people here use his\hers creations here. The seti site has been where we have been told to report to by the other boards (cpdn lhc etc.) about client problems anyways. i don't think that they even update the boinc alpha site anymore anyways. They are saying that 4.56 is the most updated version when the boinc page gives you 4.57. and sir if you want it you can get it here. http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php?dev=1

---

~boinc its not the credit or satisfaction its the screensavers~
S@h Berkeley's Staff Friends Club ©members

Boinc.msi very likely is used during uninstallation, so is therefore not deleted before you've uninstalled BOINC...

The last released client is v4.13, while the last alpha-build is v4.57, and you're using neither of these. And no, v4.57 have it's own bugs so it's not ready for release, so the recommended client is still v4.13.

Since the BOINC client must always be manually downloaded & installed, you have never been "forced" to run anything, but if an upgraded version "magically" started running some day would take a very close look on thatever other person(s) have access to your computers, or whatever virus or hacker have screwed-around on your machine, or for that matter if you're sleep-walking or something...

Seti-"classic" have reportedly a problem with the cli refusing to shut down under win9x, and the same solution will maybe also work under BOINC, but don't remember the solution...

how yor message got there before mine i dont know since it wasn't there when i hit the reply button i don't know but here is the alpha site
http://setiboinc.ssl.berkeley.edu/boinc_alpha/
Account creator is perpetually closed and no one updates the news since they started the e-mailing system. so its totally useless.
just to let you know 4.57 fixed some of the issues in 4.56. A big one being that it won't kill your cpdn stuff if you ever decide to run it.
Mr anderson is working on 4.58 right now and when you suspend a project it won't be allowed to still connect to the web. that should fix all your issues.

---

~boinc its not the credit or satisfaction its the screensavers~
S@h Berkeley's Staff Friends Club ©members

4.13 IS the current Version.....Public release....

> i don't think that they even update the boinc alpha
> site anymore anyways. They are saying that 4.56 is the
> most updated version
> when the boinc page gives you 4.57.


This is the current version! of Boinc
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php

This is where you'll find the info you need
to post Alpha problems,,,

Go Here!
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/community.php

Under
Mailing lists

---

@ gregh
I forward you message to Rom, as he is on vacation in Alaska probably won't get a reply untill next week.
Fred

---

Fred
BOINC Alpha, BOINC Beta, LHC Alpha, Einstein Alpha

good job fred. i still kick myself for missing boinc alpha and E@h alpha got the other two plus alphaed cpdn

---

~boinc its not the credit or satisfaction its the screensavers~
S@h Berkeley's Staff Friends Club ©members

Had this problem after upgrading to 4.57, "The problem with the P4 was that Boinc/Seti would not show the project, would not show the work listed being done or to be done, wouldnt show work to be transferred and wouldnt show anything" all I did was deleted the short cut and make a new one and all is well, running on a p4 3.0 HT.....

---

Semper Eadem
So long Paul, it has been a hell of a ride.

Park your ego's, fire up the computers, Science YES, Credits No.

Hi

I´m not sure if it helps on P4 but it works for me.
I´ve deleted the autostart option manually and created a new one.
What i´ve find out at 4.57 all is working but only at second time you try.
Messages are sometimes shown with an interrupt.
The dissable network access message will sometimes shown with the next one generated by the client.

greetz Mike

---

With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

> Boinc.msi very likely is used during uninstallation, so is therefore not
> deleted before you've uninstalled BOINC...
>

Still doesnt get over the problem though, does it? If you UNINSTALL Boinc/Seti entirely - eg, you have NO other project related to Boinc on your system after uninstalling Boinc/Seti - then the boinc.msi should be gone. It wasnt. Further, there is always the chance someone HAD Boinc/Seti on their computer, gave it up for a while and uninstalled it then came back to it some time later. The boinc.msi not being changed presents a problem - or at least a potential one.

> The last released client is v4.13, while the last alpha-build is v4.57, and
> you're using neither of these. And no, v4.57 have it's own bugs so it's not
> ready for release, so the recommended client is still v4.13.
>

4.13 WAS what I was using on all systems here until one day, 4.53 was forced on me and my system auto updated. From the moment that happened, I started losing WUs whenever the computers finished WUs and were not connected to the net. So, I updated to 4.55 hoping to overcome that but it didnt fix that problem and had to go to 4.56 which fixed that one.

> Since the BOINC client must always be manually downloaded & installed, you
> have never been "forced" to run anything, but if an upgraded version

See above where it states I *WAS* forced when each of my computers contacted to get more WUs. There's the proof!

> "magically" started running some day would take a very close look on thatever
> other person(s) have access to your computers, or whatever virus or hacker

I work in the job. No-one is on my machines and in fact they arent always connected to the net either and no, I dont have wi-fi as yet.

> Seti-"classic" have reportedly a problem with the cli refusing to shut down

When I last used the classic Seti V3.08 I think it was, no it didnt have that problem and neither did Boinc/Seti till 4.56 came out.

> under win9x, and the same solution will maybe also work under BOINC, but don't
> remember the solution...
>

There being no problem with classic Seti last I ran it, there was no soultion that could be applied to fit. About the only thing you can do is rudely shut down using a 3rd party program but that doesnt help when all you want to do is reboot to do an image backup.

Greg.

> @ gregh
> I forward you message to Rom, as he is on vacation in Alaska probably won't
> get a reply untill next week.
> Fred
>

Thanks. No probs waiting. You sorta expect it this time of year on anything. Just as long as when he gets back, he looks at it. ;-}

Alaska!! I once saw a White Xmas (back in 1996) when I went to Banff for Xmas. It was -45C when you stood outside NOT in the wind. I actually felt really good in that sort of cold and had a lot of fun but ALASKA????

I wondered where Runners went when they turned 30! ;-}

Greg.

> Had this problem after upgrading to 4.57, "The problem with the P4 was that
> Boinc/Seti would not show the project, would not show the work listed being
> done or to be done, wouldnt show work to be transferred and wouldnt show
> anything" all I did was deleted the short cut and make a new one and all is
> well, running on a p4 3.0 HT.....
>

Yep. Did all that, too. It wasnt till I had uninstalled 4.56 AGAIN and then went on a search for anything with "boinc" in it that I found boinc.msi and deleted it. After it was gone from my system, it occurred to me that I should have looked at it. ;-} It could have been the one from 4.13 for all I know and thus not relevant to 4.56 but still in use when installing/uninstalling.

Anyway, since deleting it, all has gone well. Still about 24 hours only since that was done but it is about 18 hours better than my last "worked right" session! ;-}

Greg.

> Hi
>
> I´m not sure if it helps on P4 but it works for me.
> I´ve deleted the autostart option manually and created a new one.
> What i´ve find out at 4.57 all is working but only at second time you try.

You sound like you are having some of the probs I had. Uninstall the prog, delete boinc.msi and reinstall after a reboot. You will find it goes away after that point and problems dont occur (well, 4.56 anyway). DOnt worry about losing partially done WUs. As long as you dont delete the dir, they all stay there and start where they left off so far as I have ever seen, taking into accoun that I havent run 4.57 before.

> Messages are sometimes shown with an interrupt.
> The dissable network access message will sometimes shown with the next one
> generated by the client.
>

I got absolutely nothing like I hadnt connected to a project. When I tried connecting, still nothing. Like I said above - try it!

Greg.

> That's one point I missed.
>
> I am using those versions because it was forced on me. Boic/Seti forced an
> update on me that basically deleted completed WUs before I could return them
> if I wasnt connected to the net at the time. In order to stop wasting my time,
> I had to move to 4.56.
>
> I am using the Alpha version 4.56 out of necessity and have no idea to what
> you refer when you say Alpha Site so this is where I, along with others,
> report bugs.
>
> Thanks for bringing that point up that I missed.
>
>

So if I understand this correctly. You are the ONLY person on this planet that is actually having seti clients forced on their system? You are using 4.56 out of necessity? I guess the 4.13 version won't run on your special computers?

I think that the bug in 4.13 that causes it to allegedly upgrade to 4.5x is more interesting than the problems with the 4.5x clients. Considerering that this was suppose to be impossible, and that the only way to upgrade the CC was by doing it manually. I think that this what needs looking at before many more peoples CC upgrade themselves without warning ;-)

Dunc

---

> I think that the bug in 4.13 that causes it to allegedly upgrade to 4.5x is
> more interesting than the problems with the 4.5x clients. Considerering that
> this was suppose to be impossible, and that the only way to upgrade the CC was
> by doing it manually. I think that this what needs looking at before many more
> peoples CC upgrade themselves without warning ;-)

Dunc,

It is impossible. The BOINC Daemon and BOINC Manager cannot install themselves through some back door. This was a decision made way early in the program even though a number of us suggested that it should be an option.

The only way that this can happen is if the participant goes to the alpha test project site and downloads the alpha version and runs the installer. This is another place where many of us suggested that this is a bad idea for the very reason that started this thread.

Gregh has now insisted that there are problems with the version 4.5x series and we have tried to convince him to stop using the alpha test versions as they are not stable. They are intended for development purposes only, and if use by a non-alpha tester they are completely on their own. In many if not most cases they will run fine. During the Beta test I never had a program crash on any of my systems even though others were having a terrible time with the various builds.

Because I am trying to finsh the first cut of documentation I had little interest in the ongoing testing. Besides, they did not ask me ... :)

---

@Paul D. Buck

I agree 100%

I think perhaps the sarcasm was buried a little too deeply ;-)

I for one have asked him in more than one thread now to roll back to 4.13 and see if he still has problems. However he insists that it 'forced him to upgrade' which of course is impossible as you confirm.

Keep up the good work :-)

Dunc

---

he's running 4.56 anyways. i ran that for a cople months and it was rather glichy but nothing like what he says happened to me. my problem was that the window would blank out and look like i lost all my work but i didn't i would just have to press the corner close button and open another boinc manager button. All the stuff would be back because manager doesn't actually do the work the core client does and manager just displays stuff and would miss a rpc from the client.

---

~boinc its not the credit or satisfaction its the screensavers~
S@h Berkeley's Staff Friends Club ©members