Net Neutrality Part Deux

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Message 1627161 - Posted: 13 Jan 2015, 14:16:31 UTC
Last modified: 13 Jan 2015, 14:35:03 UTC

This is too important to leave on the back burner, especially as more developments to the story persist. For a refresher, this is a continuation of the original thread here.


It looks like Verizon, whom sued the FCC over the original Net Neutrality rules put forth, and won, has been caught using Title II regulations to fund their fibre optic network, thus contradicting their claims that being re-classified under Title II regulations would harm innovation and chill deployment.

http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/01/fcc-urged-to-investigate-verizons-two-faced-statements-on-utility-rules/

"Jon Brodkin @ ArsTechnica" wrote:
Verizon has repeatedly claimed that utility rules would harm investment in broadband networks, urging the Federal Communications Commission to avoid imposing new regulations. Yet Verizon’s statements to the FCC have avoided mentioning that its own utility-style common carrier status helped the company charge landline phone customers higher prices to fund construction of the fiber network over which it provides FiOS Internet and TV.

...

“Bottom line—We caught the culprit red-handed,” Kushnick and Allibone wrote. “It is an open and shut case. Verizon either did or did not tell the FCC that their entire current investment in fiber optics is based entirely on using the Title II [common carrier] classification. Or that the Verizon companies have made phone customers ‘de facto’ investors by using Title II... We allege that Verizon did deceive the FCC. These material misrepresentations taint every FCC decision and policy affecting Verizon’s regulatory status, but most importantly now the Open Internet [net neutrality] Proceeding.”

The complaint calls Verizon "the 'Janus' of telecom," referring to a two-faced god of Roman mythology. "Verizon has claimed and continues to claim that Title II would harm the companies’ [Verizon and Verizon Wireless] investments," they wrote. "However, this is in direct contradiction to Verizon’s own filings, statements, SEC and state-based filings, the companies’ cable franchise agreement—every fiber optic wire appears to be Title II." That includes fiber lines used to deliver home Internet service and the fiber lines that feed into Verizon Wireless' cell towers, Kushnick and Allibone wrote. Kushnick pointed to a 2012 statement by Verizon CFO Fran Shammo that wireline capital dollars were paying for wireless expansion.


The Cable lobby, fearful of Title II classification, is promising that Google fibre can have access to their utility lines.

http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/01/cable-lobby-says-google-fiber-doesnt-need-title-ii-to-get-pole-access/


And finally, it seems that despite threats by the Telecom and Cable industries to sue the FCC if internet access is reclassified, Title II reclassification is all but confirmed by current FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler.

http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/01/title-ii-for-internet-providers-is-all-but-confirmed-by-fcc-chairman/

"Megan Geuss @ ArsTechnica" wrote:
In thinking about how to regulate broadband, Wheeler told Shapiro on Wednesday that the FCC considered two sides. ”First you want to make sure that innovators have access to open Internet. The other [side] is that you have to create an environment to provide sufficient incentives to ISPs who want to invest and build out.”

Previous approaches that relied on other FCC authority had to impose a "commercially reasonable" test on whether ISP behavior was appropriate, "and it became obvious that commercially reasonable could be interpreted as what is reasonable for the ISPs, not what is reasonable for consumers or innovators," Wheeler said. "And that's the wrong question and the wrong answer because the issue here is how do we make sure that consumers and innovators have open access to networks. That led us to a more robust investigation of the well established concept of just and reasonable, which is a Title II concept. And as I said, Title II has always been something that was on the table. So last summer we began investigating various approaches using title II as a way to get to just and reasonable because it has the best protections."

Wheeler seemed to dismiss the "hybrid" Title II idea he floated several months ago and embrace Obama's more direct approach.

Big ISPs were vocally against the FCC’s ideas and the president’s statements, but Wheeler said that opposition was mostly just talk. “After the president said what he said about Title II, we still had a record bidding for spectrum from ISPs and continued announcements about new gigabit plants going out," he said.



"Batter Up" wrote:
Bloggers and cat video lovers can put a sock in it. Verizon and other ISP are NOT going to be declared common carriers. Ma Bell was a common carrier and she is dead; all of your tears will not resurrect her. The deal has been sealed in a FCC back room.


We will see about that. It would seem Verizon left the FCC no choice. They could have left the initial open internet rules in place, but they chose to challenge them and have them struck down in court. In the court's ruling opinion, the only way the FCC could enforce such rules is to reclassify ISPs as Common Carriers under Title II, which is the only option left.

Now all ISPs are quivering thanks to Verizon's stupidity.
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Message 1627181 - Posted: 13 Jan 2015, 14:54:28 UTC

Thank you for this thread Ozzfan. Although I don't understand much (yet) about net neutrality. I was reading this interesting article a few moments ago and I thought this might fit in here.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26781-what-you-like-on-facebook-gives-away-your-personality.html?utm_source=NSNS&utm_medium=SOC&utm_campaign=hoot&cmpid=SOC%257CNSNS%257C2014-GLOBAL-hoot#.VLUxUNLF_vS
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Message 1627201 - Posted: 13 Jan 2015, 15:37:20 UTC - in response to Message 1627197.  

This will not end up good. For us.

:( :( :(


+1:(
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Message 1627254 - Posted: 14 Jan 2015, 1:49:26 UTC - in response to Message 1627197.  

This will not end up good. For us. ...

So...

Rather than playing the part of pathetic dead sheep...


Time NOW to do something about it?


All on our only one world,
Martin
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Message 1627267 - Posted: 14 Jan 2015, 2:34:15 UTC - in response to Message 1627254.  

Well, you can sod off Google, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Youtube, Yahoo, ....... or accept that the internet is a drug more addictive than tobacco.
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Message 1627304 - Posted: 14 Jan 2015, 5:34:08 UTC

Well, Until My TV, Internet, and Phone Go DARK, The Throttling seems to Have Stopped, and My Ver. 1 R O K U is Pumping Out Perfect Vid.

Outa The Blue, Into The Dark.

Happens To All

When They Close The Park

Star Dust waiting for The Next Ride

Across The Universe above The Tides.

Yep

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1627315 - Posted: 14 Jan 2015, 6:26:19 UTC - in response to Message 1627304.  

Well, Until My TV, Internet, and Phone Go DARK, The Throttling seems to Have Stopped, and My Ver. 1 R O K U is Pumping Out Perfect Vid.

Well, mine ain't. Every vid, stops in exactly the same place. Can instantly open another, and it plays for the same number of seconds, and boom, spinn' beach ball. VZ sucks, it doesn't blow, er stream data.

Full disclosure, I own shares in VZ. Guess I can't bitch too bad, it's up 40%. Yes, that means they suck wallets dry.
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Message 1627335 - Posted: 14 Jan 2015, 6:55:44 UTC - in response to Message 1627254.  

This will not end up good. For us. ...

So...

Rather than playing the part of pathetic dead sheep...


Time NOW to do something about it?


All on our only one world,
Martin



The main problem is there are not enough people willing to undertake something Martin. This And money is needed to form a good bassis for opposition against this injustice.
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Message 1627978 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 14:47:52 UTC
Last modified: 15 Jan 2015, 14:50:00 UTC

Cities are trying to spur faster internet access by building out their own networks. Big ISPs don't want to see that happen as it cuts into their markets. Some have even gone as far as lobbying local governments to put laws on the books that prevent municipalities from building out their own affordable internet access solutions.

Obama is now going after Big ISP and saying enough is enough. (Unfortunately, thanks to the distrust of anything Obama and Big Government, this may have unintended consequences for the net neutrality movement).

http://chnica.com/business/2015/01/obama-and-big-cable-spar-over-government-run-broadband-networks/

"Jon Brodkin @ ArsTechnica" wrote:
President Obama today continued his push for municipal broadband networks while cable companies and Republican members of the Federal Communications Commission claimed government-run networks are often taxpayer ripoffs.

Obama spoke at Cedar Falls Utilities in Iowa, one day after calling for an end to laws in 19 states that make it difficult for cities and towns to create their own broadband networks. Cedar Falls, which is not in one of those states, offers 1Gbps fiber Internet service for $135 a month. Comcast’s fastest residential service tops out at 505Mbps and costs $400 a month.

“Your network is as fast as some of the best networks in the world,” Obama told the Cedar Falls crowd. “Here’s the catch, in too many places across America some big companies are doing everything they can to keep out competitors… In some states it is virtually impossible to create networks like the one you have in Cedar Falls. Today I’m saying enough is enough, we’re going to change that.”

The FCC is considering whether it can preempt those state laws using its authority to promote broadband competition by removing barriers to investment. The FCC is reportedly scheduled to vote on petitions to invalidate state laws in Tennessee and North Carolina on Feb. 26. FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler has told the cable industry he intends to "preempt state laws that ban competition from community broadband," but the plan is not popular in the broadband industry or among Republicans.



In related news, the GOP wants to beat the FCC to the punch by amdending the Communications Act, thus preventing ISPs from being classified under Title II:

http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/01/bipartisan-bill-would-save-internet-providers-from-utility-rules/

"Jon Brodkin @ ArsTechnica" wrote:
The bill would amend the Communications Act to define broadband Internet access as an "information service" and prevent the FCC from reclassifying information services as common carriers. Though [Bob] Latta's (R-Ohio) bill has a Democratic supporter, congressional Democrats and President Obama have generally pushed a different agenda on net neutrality.

ISPs and telecom industry groups have been among Latta's top donors. In the 2013-14 election cycle, he received $15,000 from the National Cable & Telecommunications Association, $13,000 from AT&T, $10,000 from the American Cable Association, $10,000 from Time Warner Cable, $8,500 from Comcast, $8,000 from Verizon, $8,000 from NCTA - The Rural Broadband Association, and $7,500 from CenturyLink, according to OpenSecrets.org. In the case of the ISPs, donations came not directly from the companies themselves, but from their political action committees, employees, or owners in order to comply with campaign contribution rules.
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Message 1628000 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 16:09:21 UTC

Quantumfyzix shows yet again how useful it can be for us humans, even with this 'shortcoming' of the governments:

Einstein's 'spooky' theory may lead to ultra-secure internet

Very interesting...
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Message 1628003 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 16:24:40 UTC - in response to Message 1627988.  

In related news, the GOP wants to beat the FCC to the punch by amdending the Communications Act, thus preventing ISPs from being classified under Title II:

http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/01/bipartisan-bill-would-save-internet-providers-from-utility-rules/

"Jon Brodkin @ ArsTechnica" wrote:
The bill would amend the Communications Act to define broadband Internet access as an "information service" and prevent the FCC from reclassifying information services as common carriers. Though [Bob] Latta's (R-Ohio) bill has a Democratic supporter, congressional Democrats and President Obama have generally pushed a different agenda on net neutrality.

ISPs and telecom industry groups have been among Latta's top donors. In the 2013-14 election cycle, he received $15,000 from the National Cable & Telecommunications Association, $13,000 from AT&T, $10,000 from the American Cable Association, $10,000 from Time Warner Cable, $8,500 from Comcast, $8,000 from Verizon, $8,000 from NCTA - The Rural Broadband Association, and $7,500 from CenturyLink, according to OpenSecrets.org. In the case of the ISPs, donations came not directly from the companies themselves, but from their political action committees, employees, or owners in order to comply with campaign contribution rules.

In THIS case:

The Republicans are on OUR Side.

May they succeed against Obama, and The Democrats.


Sorry, Big ISP had their chance when the FCC tried to use lighter rules to govern broadband. Verizon cried about it and got their way. At this point, I don't think what the GOP is proposing is for the benefit of consumers given how much "donation" money has been given to them from ISPs trying to backpeddle their way out of this.
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Message 1628008 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 16:44:13 UTC - in response to Message 1628005.  

In THIS case:

The Republicans are on OUR Side.

May they succeed against Obama, and The Democrats.


Sorry, Big ISP had their chance when the FCC tried to use lighter rules to govern broadband. Verizon cried about it and got their way. At this point, I don't think what the GOP is proposing is for the benefit of consumers given how much "donation" money has been given to them from ISPs trying to backpeddle their way out of this.

Therefore, you are for what Obama, and his Democrat Appointees, are going to do?

It is the Republicans speaking out, and trying to do something.

Note: Dislike ALL Politicians, and Party's, but...


It would almost seem like you are against anything Obama or the Democrats would do as a matter of course.

In this case, yes, I stand with Obama and the Dems. I do not trust this amendment to the Communications Act will benefit the consumer. Big ISP has been price gouging the consumer, staying out of each other's territory so as to not have to compete against each other, and kept innovation and adoption of faster speeds stagnant.
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Message 1628022 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 17:05:17 UTC - in response to Message 1628018.  

Sorry, Big ISP had their chance when the FCC tried to use lighter rules to govern broadband. Verizon cried about it and got their way. At this point, I don't think what the GOP is proposing is for the benefit of consumers given how much "donation" money has been given to them from ISPs trying to backpeddle their way out of this.

Therefore, you are for what Obama, and his Democrat Appointees, are going to do?

It is the Republicans speaking out, and trying to do something.

Note: Dislike ALL Politicians, and Party's, but...


It would almost seem like you are against anything Obama or the Democrats would do as a matter of course.

In this case, yes, I stand with Obama and the Dems. I do not trust this amendment to the Communications Act will benefit the consumer. Big ISP has been price gouging the consumer, staying out of each other's territory so as to not have to compete against each other, and kept innovation and adoption of faster speeds stagnant.

Oh please...

Stop with the silliness about my opinion of Obama, and The Democrats.

Let's not degenerate into some stupid, little, political debate, over this important issue.


Ok. I won't if you won't. So do you actually have anything of value to add to the discussion? Or do you plan to allow this to degenerate due to your responses like the above?
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Message 1628038 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 17:33:45 UTC - in response to Message 1628027.  

Sorry, Big ISP had their chance when the FCC tried to use lighter rules to govern broadband. Verizon cried about it and got their way. At this point, I don't think what the GOP is proposing is for the benefit of consumers given how much "donation" money has been given to them from ISPs trying to backpeddle their way out of this.

Therefore, you are for what Obama, and his Democrat Appointees, are going to do?

It is the Republicans speaking out, and trying to do something.

Note: Dislike ALL Politicians, and Party's, but...


It would almost seem like you are against anything Obama or the Democrats would do as a matter of course.

In this case, yes, I stand with Obama and the Dems. I do not trust this amendment to the Communications Act will benefit the consumer. Big ISP has been price gouging the consumer, staying out of each other's territory so as to not have to compete against each other, and kept innovation and adoption of faster speeds stagnant.

Oh please...

Stop with the silliness about my opinion of Obama, and The Democrats.

Let's not degenerate into some stupid, little, political debate, over this important issue.


Ok. I won't if you won't. So do you actually have anything of value to add to the discussion? Or do you plan to allow this to degenerate due to your responses like the above?

YOU brought it up.

I just REPLIED.

Therefore YOUR Post didn't "have anything of value to add to the discussion".

Note: These silly, personal attacks, are getting boring.


I highlighted, in bold, your first statement where you use siding with Obama and the Dems as if that's some sort of bad thing people should be afraid of. I pointed out that you use such a tactic frequently in this forum, then went on to state that I do, in fact, support Obama and the Dems on this.

You then came back with your typical MO of attacking everyone else whenever you feel attacked. Your response here confirms this statement.

Nobody has attacked you personally. Certainly not me. I simply replied to your initial statement. You took it personal, and you're further dragging the discussion into yet another quarrel with you while you cry about personal attacks from everyone else.
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Message 1628056 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 18:21:39 UTC - in response to Message 1628048.  
Last modified: 15 Jan 2015, 18:22:55 UTC

Would you have RESPONDED, as you did, if I Attacked Bush, Jr. and The Republicans? IE: Why am I attacking them? OF COURSE NOT!


This is another theme with you. You ask rhetorical questions, then you provide the answer for them. You setup strawman arguments, color everyone else on this forum as being Pro-Dem, and then you proceed to say how everyone else is just so unfair to the GOP.

So. Are you actually going to ask a legitimate question here of me? Or continue to accuse me of things without even knowing what my political views are? Oh wait, you don't have to ask anyone who would side with the Dems or Obama. Clearly they are the "unthinking liberal left" according to many of your rants.

Neither Obama, as Bush Jr., nor The Democrats, as The Republicans, are without sin.


And here we go down the rabbit hole of off-topic rants. I never claimed either side was without "sin" (I use quotes because I don't believe in such a concept, but I know what you're getting at).

I also note that it always comes down to this type of argument whenever someone points out your obvious bias - you try to claim that everyone else is just as biased. I suppose a good defense is a strong offense, right? Try not to be so defensive and I'll bet your conversations start to go a little better. It will also reflect upon you better as well.

According to you, neither Political Party, nor their Political Appointees, can be mentioned in regard to This Issue.


Again, a strawman argument. I never made such a claim. You inferred that from a simple sentence. I strongly urge you to get to know me better before putting words in my mouth like this, because how you've depicted me here is not indicative of my world views.

Edit: Do you understand that it IS The Political Party's, and THEIR Political Appointees, who make The Laws, and Regulations?

Do you?


Why do you get so angry in every conversation? Do you understand the commonality in all of this is you and your style of discussion?

Do you?
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Message 1628063 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 18:35:16 UTC - in response to Message 1628059.  

OzzFan...

Since you are incapable of stopping. I will take the mature, non-ideological course, and stop.


What? LOL Whatever man. Live in your own little world.
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Message 1628127 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 20:57:59 UTC

Let's remember that this is a very Serious matter to discuss so let's all get along:)
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Message 1628182 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 23:29:36 UTC - in response to Message 1628127.  

Let's remember that this is a very Serious matter to discuss so let's all get along:)

Which may well degenerate to destroy the very existence of large volunteer projects such as s@h...


IT is what we allow it to be...
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Message 1628196 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 23:58:25 UTC - in response to Message 1628127.  

Let's remember that this is a very Serious matter to discuss so let's all get along:)

Yes, the trolls have hooked each other several times and caught quite a few others and are trying to reel them in.

The ISP's absolutely refuse to be "dumb pipes to the internet" which is what net neutrality is all about. As long as that pipe has to pass over a government mandated easement, especially where the government only permits a single pipe, it must be a dumb pipe. End of story.
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Message 1628275 - Posted: 16 Jan 2015, 5:37:04 UTC - in response to Message 1628269.  

So what, according to you, is the FCC Proposing?

AFIK they are proposing that they be treated as a common carrier. They would not be able to give preferential treatment to any data packet, such as giving a data packet originating at their affiliated company priority handling over one originating at their competition. Everything would be treated first come, first serve.

Essentially same idea as back in the bad old days when there were a few phone companies that had maybe 5% of the USA and Ma Bell with 95%. It forced Ma Bell to take calls to/from Tiny Phone just the same as a Ma Bell call.
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Message boards : Politics : Net Neutrality Part Deux


 
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