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Chimps... Are they people too?
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Author | Message |
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KWSN - MajorKong Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0 |
Now for a slight change of pace... A State Appeals Court in New York heard arguments on Oct. 9th, 2014 in a lawsuit over legal personhood for a chimp named 'Tommy'. Thoughts? Edit: Oops... Forgot the URL link... http://www.wired.com/2014/10/chimpanzee-personhood-hearing/ |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
With all the published "lawsuits" over the past several years, it seems that the States has lost the plot. |
Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
Now for a slight change of pace... Ridiculous. I mean, why? |
KWSN - MajorKong Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0 |
Now for a slight change of pace... Why ridiculous? Is the concept of 'people' going to be always and forever a 'Homo sapiens' only club? Or is it possible that at least certain members of other species might attain that status at some point? If we are not going to be guilty of 'species-ism', what qualities would a non-human have to possess to be a 'person' under the law? |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Converse would be a good one to consider. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Now for a slight change of pace... +1 ;-) |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
Now for a slight change of pace... Well so far they have to be a corporation. I see no reason not to now open it up to actual feeling sentient beings. A chimp has the understanding of a 2 year old child. They can learn to speak sign language. They can lie just like a real person. There is definitely a case to be made that they should have their personhood recognised by the law. Reality Internet Personality |
Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
Why ridiculous? No, I would reserve person hood to anyone who is capable of asking for it or who is member of a species that as a species is capable of asking for it. So, for now that only includes humans. In the future it could include smart robots or intelligent alien species. A chimpanzee however, is normally incapable of asking for personhood. It needs to be done through his owners. If you open it up to chimpanzees and basically say they are of equal standing in the eyes of the law as a human being, you are going to give them the same rights as human beings. So, that means that since they don't have a job, they have a right to welfare benefits. They have the right to medicare, they have the right for legal representation, you can't put them in zoos anymore, etc. More importantly if they get defined as person, you open up the gates to expand person hood to pretty much include pretty much all species on this planet. Which is a silly idea. Can you imagine it? A chimp getting welfare benefits? |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Why ridiculous? Tarzan's Cheetah paying taxes on his movie residuals ..... |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Tarzan's Cheetah paying taxes on his movie residuals ..... ..or Cheetah making love to Jane (well that's what personhood can eventually lead to isn't it?) |
Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
Tarzan's Cheetah paying taxes on his movie residuals ..... Oh hey great, legalized bestiality as long as its with great apes. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Tarzan's Cheetah paying taxes on his movie residuals ..... Who's to say it can't happen? |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
Tarzan's Cheetah paying taxes on his movie residuals ..... Can they give consent? There is reason there is an age limit on human to human sexual intercourse. It is because a child cannot give consent, yet they are still considered a person. I don't think the ability to give consent or not defines whether you are a person or not. Reality Internet Personality |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
It seems to me (unless I'm looking too far ahead for my own good), that mankind continues to push the boundaries to the limits. Just where will it all end? What will be the final line in the sand that will not be permitted to cross? |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
Tommy presently is kept alone in a cage in a warehouse in Gloversville, New York. Eventually, hope his advocates, he will be moved to a sanctuary and into the history books as the first nonhuman animal person, possessing rights previously restricted to Homo sapiens. I will repeat too! Any living creature with self awareness and the ability to communicate is as much a person as you or I am. Animal welfare should always be taken into consideration as we should consider ourselves the stewards of this planet, not the masters. Reality Internet Personality |
James Sotherden Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54 |
Why ridiculous? I bet his owner did pay taxes. [/quote] Old James |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Why ridiculous? Owner, is that anything like "Master?" |
James Sotherden Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54 |
Why ridiculous? Id would say yes. And ES makes a valid point. If they can learn sign language and communicate raises some very good questions. Just because they dont know what questions to ask is another question that needs to be taken into consideration. [/quote] Old James |
Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
Id would say yes. And ES makes a valid point. If they can learn sign language and communicate raises some very good questions. Just because they dont know what questions to ask is another question that needs to be taken into consideration. Then you would have to wonder whether a species that at is intellectual maximum is as smart as a two year old child, should it be considered to be persons with all the rights and privileges that human beings enjoy under the law? |
Julie Send message Joined: 28 Oct 09 Posts: 34053 Credit: 18,883,157 RAC: 18 |
Id would say yes. And ES makes a valid point. If they can learn sign language and communicate raises some very good questions. Just because they dont know what questions to ask is another question that needs to be taken into consideration. They aren't human so I don't think they fall under the same law but they should be treated with respect, no doubt about that. rOZZ Music Pictures |
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