Greed in Space

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Message 1578514 - Posted: 26 Sep 2014, 21:53:57 UTC

Couldn't put this in the non seti science thread , because as can be seen in the link, politics has already reared it's ugly head:

Sorry sir, we only have unleaded

Is it really viable?
In the future will there be "space wars" over who owns what?
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Message 1578548 - Posted: 26 Sep 2014, 23:04:39 UTC - in response to Message 1578514.  

Couldn't put this in the non seti science thread , because as can be seen in the link, politics has already reared it's ugly head:

Sorry sir, we only have unleaded

Is it really viable?
In the future will there be "space wars" over who owns what?

Hmm, no its not viable yet. The costs are still to high to be really viable. We need space elevators first.

But hypothetically, once it becomes viable, of course you will get space wars over resources. Its a given.
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Message 1578561 - Posted: 27 Sep 2014, 0:18:10 UTC - in response to Message 1578548.  

But hypothetically, once it becomes viable, of course you will get space wars over resources. Its a given.

Given what I consider to be a fact that the resources out there are infinite I find that to be most unlikely.
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Message 1578600 - Posted: 27 Sep 2014, 3:05:47 UTC - in response to Message 1578561.  

But hypothetically, once it becomes viable, of course you will get space wars over resources. Its a given.

Given what I consider to be a fact that the resources out there are infinite I find that to be most unlikely.

You, my friend are a dreamer. If and when humans get around to mining the resources to be found in our solar system there will be other humans trying to bypass the work part and hijack the goods. They are known as pirates. There were plenty of resources in the new world 500 years ago but it didn't keep pirates from stealing the cargos then and a plentiful supply won't prevent piracy in the future, whether on the high seas or in space.
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Message 1578642 - Posted: 27 Sep 2014, 5:33:07 UTC

Greed in Space

Greed is a powerful motivator.

I don't think we go off planet without greed being involved.
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Message 1578708 - Posted: 27 Sep 2014, 9:41:18 UTC - in response to Message 1578561.  

But hypothetically, once it becomes viable, of course you will get space wars over resources. Its a given.

Given what I consider to be a fact that the resources out there are infinite I find that to be most unlikely.

Yeah but location location location. Sure the resources might be practically infinite if you take the whole universe into account. But the vast majority of those resources are either out of our reach or at undiscovered locations or simply to far away from where you want to be. So it will be easier and more profitable to wage war over certain resource deposits than it is to find and exploit entirely new ones.
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Message 1578999 - Posted: 28 Sep 2014, 8:39:05 UTC - in response to Message 1578642.  

Greed in Space

Greed is a powerful motivator.

I don't think we go off planet without greed being involved.


+1:( I'd say leave the Universe alone, when I hear something like that...
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Message 1579114 - Posted: 28 Sep 2014, 16:33:24 UTC - in response to Message 1578999.  

Greed in Space

Greed is a powerful motivator.

I don't think we go off planet without greed being involved.


+1:( I'd say leave the Universe alone, when I hear something like that...

Quark would be disappointed.
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Message 1579223 - Posted: 29 Sep 2014, 0:31:22 UTC

I don't see humans becoming any better than we are now. I think Gene Roddenberry was way to optimistic in his view of the future of mankind.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1579227 - Posted: 29 Sep 2014, 0:48:31 UTC
Last modified: 29 Sep 2014, 0:55:16 UTC

If humans ever should colonize space, we would also likely be having a space police as well.

The most important things we would be able to find in space are minerals. By means of colonizing the Moon and also visiting the largest of the asteroids in the solar system, you would be able to carry back such products to the earth.

To the industry and refineries, being able to deal with such products is an important aspect of business and may bring both profit and the cover of specific needs with its processing.

But here on earth really water and air are the two most precious natural products which are needed for us to use.

Such products may possibly be found in comets instead, but not in iron-rich asteroids like possibly Ceres, Pallas, Juno and Vesta, which are the four largest asteroids in the solar system.

Therefore it is tragic to see such events like the recent break of the water mains in Los Angeles, CA and the efforts needed at cleaning up the mess in its wake. This water is meant for both washing of clothes and taking a shower and also you may be able to drink it when properly destilled and cleant from dirt and other contamination by means of filters.

Also remember that fluorine probably is added to the water in small quantities in order to reduce the number of bacteria and viruses which might come along with it.
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Message 1579232 - Posted: 29 Sep 2014, 1:30:11 UTC - in response to Message 1579227.  

If humans ever should colonize space, we would also likely be having a space police as well.

The most important things we would be able to find in space are minerals. By means of colonizing the Moon and also visiting the largest of the asteroids in the solar system, you would be able to carry back such products to the earth.

To the industry and refineries, being able to deal with such products is an important aspect of business and may bring both profit and the cover of specific needs with its processing.

But here on earth really water and air are the two most precious natural products which are needed for us to use.

Such products may possibly be found in comets instead, but not in iron-rich asteroids like possibly Ceres, Pallas, Juno and Vesta, which are the four largest asteroids in the solar system.

Therefore it is tragic to see such events like the recent break of the water mains in Los Angeles, CA and the efforts needed at cleaning up the mess in its wake. This water is meant for both washing of clothes and taking a shower and also you may be able to drink it when properly destilled and cleant from dirt and other contamination by means of filters.

Also remember that fluorine probably is added to the water in small quantities in order to reduce the number of bacteria and viruses which might come along with it.


That would be chlorine.

Fluorine is added to strengthen tooth enamel, cutting down on tooth decay.

But you do have a point about 'ice' in space being quite valuable.

Even in EvE Online (A sci-fi space MMORPG), Ice 'mining' is where the money is at. Not so much in mining the metal/mineral asteroids.

Not so much for Air/Water, though, but for Fuel.
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Message 1579234 - Posted: 29 Sep 2014, 1:51:47 UTC - in response to Message 1579232.  
Last modified: 29 Sep 2014, 1:52:09 UTC

Also remember that fluorine probably is added to the water in small quantities in order to reduce the number of bacteria and viruses which might come along with it.


That would be chlorine.

Fluorine is added to strengthen tooth enamel, cutting down on tooth decay.

That would be sodium fluoride. Fluorine is not added to drinking water.

They may also yous chloramines to kill bacteria.
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Message 1579248 - Posted: 29 Sep 2014, 2:57:14 UTC - in response to Message 1579234.  
Last modified: 29 Sep 2014, 3:04:29 UTC

Also remember that fluorine probably is added to the water in small quantities in order to reduce the number of bacteria and viruses which might come along with it.


That would be chlorine.

Fluorine is added to strengthen tooth enamel, cutting down on tooth decay.

That would be sodium fluoride. Fluorine is not added to drinking water.

They may also yous chloramines to kill bacteria.


Ahh... but sodium fluoride (NaF) is an IONIC compound (as opposed to a COVALENT compound), that disassociates in aqueous solution, much as sodium chloride (NaCl -- Table Salt) does.

So you dump sodium fluoride in water, you get a bunch of Sodium Ions (Na⁺) and Fluoride Ions (F⁻) in solution in the water.

So, yes, fluorine IS added to water.

Edit: Chloramines... nasty stuff. Mutagen, and toxic to aquatic life. I hear the EPA is moving to ban their use in drinking water systems.
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Message 1579278 - Posted: 29 Sep 2014, 5:10:09 UTC

Bump.

Should have read fluoride there. Sorry for the misprint.

Going to bed now in the late night. See you tomorrow.
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Message 1579328 - Posted: 29 Sep 2014, 9:56:33 UTC - in response to Message 1579232.  

Not so much for Air/Water, though, but for Fuel.

I thought the fuel of the future would be Helium 3, not hydrogen.
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Message 1579364 - Posted: 29 Sep 2014, 13:21:29 UTC

Doesn't matter what the valuable commodity is. When it become practical to retrieve the stuff some will be willing to work hard to bring it back while others will opt to just steal it. Especially if the people who object to putting any weapons in space rule the day.
Bob DeWoody

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Message 1579380 - Posted: 29 Sep 2014, 14:20:44 UTC - in response to Message 1579328.  

Not so much for Air/Water, though, but for Fuel.

I thought the fuel of the future would be Helium 3, not hydrogen.


That statement of mine applied to EvE-Online, where 'ice' is refined for various isotopes, etc., primarily used for (in EvE-Online) fuel for both Player-Owned space stations and for fueling 'jump drives'. In other words, total fiction. Not for Real-life purposes.

As to He³ being the 'fuel of the future', well, it is kinda rare down here on the Earth, and its most convenient source to us would require 'strip-mining' the moon, which is against various international treaties.
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Message 1579412 - Posted: 29 Sep 2014, 16:15:58 UTC
Last modified: 29 Sep 2014, 16:22:46 UTC

Here on Earth some products are being used as they originally come or arrive in shape.

Other products like food and furniture have been manufactured with one or more specific purposes in mind.

We are using the resources possibly being available to us in order to survive and live.

As usual there may always be greed among some or all of us, but greed in the end shortens your life and may remind you that there is always another day yet to come.

A car is running on petrol. Such fuel may be liquid and flammable, but it is a refined product that is extracted from oil.

Which means that one or basic elements of nature is manufactured for a given or specific purpose with that given purpose in mind.

In the future we could end up seeing a battle for resources in space. What we need here on Earth may be found on the moon, on the surface or below of asteroids as well as on comets.

For now a manned mission to Mars may still be a futuristic dream, but by means of international co-operation we are now having a manned space station where valuable science is being carried out.

It all becomes a question of money, planning and political willingness.

The dream of many scientists as well as ordinary people is a manned mission to Mars. Another thing not yet mentioned at all is the fact that Jupiter is having four large moons, each of possessing their individual properties.

Many people would appreciate or fancy going for a visit at Io, but it is located very close to Jupiter's immense magnetic field and therefore has a surface that is volcanic as a result of this proximity to the planet. Callisto is hugely impacted by meteorites and probably may be an exposed moon when it comes to meteor and asteroid impacts.

Therefore we are left with the moons Europa and Ganymedes. The first of these two moons is an icy object with a possible liquid ocean beyond its surface. An expedition to one or both of these moons would need both a specific planning as well as attitude.

The moon Ganymedes may be giving the slight benefit as well as disadvantage of being a very large moon. The gravity on the surface may be slightly greater than the other moons, but this also leads to possible higher costs when it comes to taking off and landing. If a mining colony ever was to be set up or established on Ganymedes, raw material would need to be locally manufactured and refined before further shipment back to earth.

Also there may seem most likely that any such moon needs to be having a space station in orbit around or near it as a rendezvous point in place before possibly leaving back for Earth or possibly be arriving from there.

So for now all of this only becomes a dream of fiction. For now we are only able to build space shuttles based on certain limitations when it comes to technological cabapilities and comfort when it comes to living. Space is also about the lack of gravity. At best, astronauts living aboard the space station is living in a micro-gravity environment. For a possible expedition to Jupiter, at least two years of no gravity at all would have to be endured before eventually arriving there.

With both the necessary money as well as technology in place, next becomes planning. You will need to stay at for example Europa or Ganymedes for possibly one year before returning back to earth. When returning back to Earth, you may have become a little older in the meantime and most likely things would have changed since you left for your expedition in order to find some precious minerals and perhaps find out and learn something on your own as well.
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Message 1579542 - Posted: 29 Sep 2014, 19:34:33 UTC - in response to Message 1579380.  

That statement of mine applied to EvE-Online, where 'ice' is refined for various isotopes, etc., primarily used for (in EvE-Online) fuel for both Player-Owned space stations and for fueling 'jump drives'. In other words, total fiction. Not for Real-life purposes.

As to He³ being the 'fuel of the future', well, it is kinda rare down here on the Earth, and its most convenient source to us would require 'strip-mining' the moon, which is against various international treaties.

Oh I see. I missed the part where you said it related to EVE. My bad :)

As for those international treaties, they can be amended if it turns out that strip mining the moon for He3 is profitable enough for the human race as a whole. And while the moon is the closest source, Im sure there are other sources as well.
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Message 1579745 - Posted: 30 Sep 2014, 2:00:52 UTC - in response to Message 1579542.  

That statement of mine applied to EvE-Online, where 'ice' is refined for various isotopes, etc., primarily used for (in EvE-Online) fuel for both Player-Owned space stations and for fueling 'jump drives'. In other words, total fiction. Not for Real-life purposes.

As to He³ being the 'fuel of the future', well, it is kinda rare down here on the Earth, and its most convenient source to us would require 'strip-mining' the moon, which is against various international treaties.

Oh I see. I missed the part where you said it related to EVE. My bad :)

As for those international treaties, they can be amended if it turns out that strip mining the moon for He3 is profitable enough for the human race as a whole. And while the moon is the closest source, Im sure there are other sources as well.

I agree about the treaty. It was one of those feel good agreements that, at the time, had no impact on anything. The moon isn't the earth as it has no ecology to damage.
Bob DeWoody

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