funny how that works, the end of the mini ice age is followed by global warming.

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Wonder if Clive has been told he's bin talked about on Seti wiggo

All I hope he's not just a big bag of wind and does what he says I can respect him for that and not be a lieing SOB like Dumb Dumb , and the rest of the bastards on that side .

You Never know he mite just turn out like Don Chip " I keep the bastards honest " was his catch cry

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funny how that works, the end of the mini ice age is followed by global warming.

Indeed, indeed it is...

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Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...

Interesting about the CO2 levels, but, in Britain warmest summer I remember was in 1976
Although sun had gone down it was still light around 11:00pm, must have been something to do with tilt of earth?
Don't know if summer of 2012 was warmer for longer?
Localised hot spots are somewhat normal, I haven't studied any of this stuff since the 1970's so pretty much completely out of touch. That's never stopped me having an opinion though
On a geological time scale, this isn't even a small blip, planet has been much warmer and much (much) colder for tens of thousands of years at a time

It will also prevent re-radiation since it will obscure a perfectly black sky but the net effect will be to shade the Earth. Just go outside and wait for a cloud to obscure the Sun. I do however think that Solar activity is more intense now than what it was in the previous decade or two.

So What do the TEMPERATURE numbers show ??

The variation from the sun is negligible compared to what we are experiencing.

You forget that light absorption by CO2 is wavelength dependent: Infrared heat is absorbed; The white light from the sun is allowed through unhindered.

[And the infra-red heat is only from the Earth's surface and radiates upwards. The light from our sun has very little infra-red - it is white not red.]

This is demonstrated by direct measurement. Our lower atmosphere is warming up whilst the upper atmosphere is cooling down. The heating up is however greater than the cooling and demonstrates that the blanket of CO2 is increasing in strength.

We are seeing more of these and over wider areas. All only in recent decades, and very much more so only in recent years:

Rare 'night shining' clouds seen over Scarborough

A rare cloud formation has been spotted in the night sky above the North Yorkshire town of Scarborough.

Noctilucent clouds are caused by sunlight shining on ice crystals 50 miles (80km) above the earth's surface...


In the world of the extreme thoroughness of science, all the connections have not been conclusively followed. However, the simple view is that having a more extreme temperature gradient through the atmosphere due to the increase in CO2 will enhance forming the Noctilucent clouds...

More CO2, the more Noctilucent clouds we can expect to see...


An inconvenient observation?

All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
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From Goddard Space Flight Center:

Since the late 1970s, the amount of solar radiation the sun emits, during times of quiet sunspot activity, has increased by nearly .05 percent per decade, according to a NASA funded study.

"This trend is important because, if sustained over many decades, it could cause significant climate change," said Richard Willson, a researcher affiliated with NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies and Columbia University's Earth Institute, New York. He is the lead author of the study recently published in Geophysical Research Letters.

"Historical records of solar activity indicate that solar radiation has been increasing since the late 19th century. If a trend, comparable to the one found in this study, persisted throughout the 20th century, it would have provided a significant component of the global warming the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change reports to have occurred over the past 100 years," he said.

From Goddard Space Flight Center:

Since the late 1970s, the amount of solar radiation the sun emits, during times of quiet sunspot activity, has increased by nearly .05 percent per decade, according to a NASA funded study.

That's terrible. We must tax the sun to control it as we know we are the supreme knowledge of all things.

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...Noctilucent clouds are caused by sunlight shining on ice crystals 50 miles (80km) above the earth's surface...


In the world of the extreme thoroughness of science, all the connections have not been conclusively followed. However, the simple view is that having a more extreme temperature gradient through the atmosphere due to the increase in CO2 will enhance forming the Noctilucent clouds...

More CO2, the more Noctilucent clouds we can expect to see...


An inconvenient observation?

One must, if a thinking person, understand the difference between Observation and Causation.

Why isn't the Increasing Tilt of our Planet, the Collapsing Magnetic Sphere of our Planet, the Increasing Solar Radiation since 1986, etc., etc., etc., not taken into account, and basically ignored, regarding Causation?

Sorry for asking Inconvenient Questions.

All well and fine.

So, I give some direct connections and... So what has your random list to do with anything other than a general vague connection in that it is all somehow to do with our planet?...

Good questions are welcomed to aid and improve our understanding. Random questions are just noise that any fool can use to filibluster...


So, your connected good questions are?

Or is it still that it "just can't be so"?


Look around. Noone understands reality better than when experiencing it.

All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

From Goddard Space Flight Center:

Since the late 1970s, the amount of solar radiation the sun emits, during times of quiet sunspot activity, has increased by nearly .05 percent per decade, according to a NASA funded study. ...

Have you got the link to that study please?... Or just something random??...


Note that the effects we are observing are x10 to x100 times that...

You need to look for the bigger effect.

And by far the biggest new effect is the pollution from our recently ever faster expanding industrialization.


All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

You probably need to look at,

Nasa - Global Climate Change and read the other articles in left hand menu

Milankovitch Cycles details of tilt, wobble and Elliptical Cycle.

then add to the sun might be in a quiet period, Scientists Believe Sun is ‘Falling Asleep’ and we might be heading for a Maunder Minimum

Martin...

Proving my point again.

"Random questions are just noise"? I guess I struck a nerve. Your unscientific response is "Don't ask questions. Trust us". Where have we heard that before?

Questions are a way of finding the truth (to those who care about the truth).

Slowly, but surely, the populations of the world are understanding the real reason behind the Fanatical Man-Made Climate Changer's. Unless one believes, in the end, The People are stupid. Where have we heard that before?

The sad part about this serious discussion is this: The science behind Man-Made Climate Change MAY be correct. But... Since so many of their supporters are driven by Another Agenda. Most people will reject all that is being said.

Again, I apologize for asking Inconvenient Questions.

Ahhh... So you are back to your trolling of arguing both ways in your own argument AND of attacking the messenger. And all without any substance.

Is that not all just random noise to pollute the thread?

All just a silly game of denial and trolling?...

And meanwhile, the fossils pollution continues.


All on our only one world,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Interesting about the CO2 levels, but, in Britain warmest summer I remember was in 1976
Although sun had gone down it was still light around 11:00pm, must have been something to do with tilt of earth?
Don't know if summer of 2012 was warmer for longer?
Localised hot spots are somewhat normal, I haven't studied any of this stuff since the 1970's so pretty much completely out of touch. That's never stopped me having an opinion though
On a geological time scale, this isn't even a small blip, planet has been much warmer and much (much) colder for tens of thousands of years at a time

+1

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Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...

Oh Yeah. As Far As Sea Level Rising.

Aliens. Yes, Aliens. Movies, Science and Books have US Believe Water is No. 1 Importance to Life.

However, 'it' 'is' POISON to Many Aliens. They 'Ship 'it'' To Earth to Get Rid of This Poison. How? Worm Holes.

Dat Be The Sea Level Rise. heeeheeeheee.

Stay Thirsty My Earth.

' '

+1, good thing we have a lot of it too! Water that is, not aliens, well we have a lot of aliens too, but water is GOOD!

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Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...

Clyde since when has the Earth Angle of Tilt changed mate ?

Yes it does move but that's over 10's of thousands of years not the last 60 or so..... and you say GW ppl make false claims ???

you got no more than 65yrs till it's to late and man starts to revert back to apes

the maths says so 400ppm now 2.5ppm per year increasing at 5% per year the Co2 will be 540 but probbly closer to 600 in just 65yrs mate

once it hits 600 it's to late and babies will start to be born with smaller brains so your children's children are doomed 2 gen's and it's all over .

If we do not reduce the CO2 we are putting into the air

So I ask this of perents are you a child abuser if you do not do some thing about this now and let you gran kids suffer if you say no I am not and then turn around and then say GW is crap I say you are a child abuser as it's not just your gran kids that will suffer your own kids will too so take the gamble and be a child abuser and screw what happens on the morrow

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Usually the precession of axis takes around 26,000 years. Couple of years ago, there was a rather large earthquake that moved it a few inches. The axis movement wasn't mentioned too much due to the nuclear powerplant melting down

Even if it moved a few inches to now say that that is what has been causing that has happen to the climate over the last 30yrs when it only happen what 2 yrs ago is a bit rich.

ok it might have caused the sudden cold spell in the U.S but doesn't come close to explaining much else.

Even tho this has happened it hasn't stoped the north west passage from melting and according to the SST anomaly it is now open or will be in a week which has only been happening since about 2007

ppl need to wake up stop reading non science web pages or blogs or so called peer review site and actually go to the the sites that are doing the research like this one https://scripps.ucsd.edu/programs/keelingcurve/

or this one http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

or this http://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/

or this http://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/why-did-earth%E2%80%99s-surface-temperature-stop-rising-past-decade

or this http://climate.nasa.gov/

or this http://www.whoi.edu/

or this http://sealevel.jpl.nasa.gov/science/elninopdo/latestdata/

or this http://nasa3d.arc.nasa.gov/visualizations and click on eyes on earth

or this http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/qthinice.asp don't tell me this 1 is part of the big conspiracy

WAKE UP FOR f^&k SACKE

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I'm fully awake! I will adapt. The rest of you----I don't know? I doubt you adapt and we all know what Darwin has to say about that. :-)

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Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...

Hello I.D nice try but not going to bite mate

ecept that O2 under 21% does make offspring have smaller brains

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WAKE UP FOR f^&k SACKE

Indeed so...


Thanks for the good list of links.

Just for an easy start for such as Clyde and others in denial, this link from a student beautifully summarizes the usual confusion about how CO2 connects with past and natural climate:

How do CO2 levels relate to ice ages and sea-level?


Now consider what our industry is directly doing with our ever incresing CO2 pollution.

Too big a problem? Not really if we can sweep aside the political and Markets corruption...


All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Nice to finally have someone put up Scripps and the Keeling curve named after professor Keeling whom first put up the GW and CO2 effects after studying Venus

good see some are not blind deaf and stupid

It's like trying to talk to a brick wall sometimes Martin !

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