Your thoughts on the upcoming Haswell E CPUs

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Profile Fred J. Verster
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Message 1577402 - Posted: 24 Sep 2014, 23:44:04 UTC - in response to Message 1577375.  

Haswell (microarchitecture)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Haswell

A Haswell wafer with a pin for scale
CPUID code 0306C3h
Product code 80646 (desktop)
80647 (mobile)
Cores 2–4 (Mainstream)
6–8 (Enthusiast)
8+ (Xeon)
L1 cache 64 KB per core
L2 cache 256 KB per core
L3 cache 2 MB to 20 MB shared
L4 cache n/a or 128 MB (Iris Pro models)
GPU HD Graphics 4200, 4400,
4600, 5000, Iris 5100
or Iris Pro 5200
200 MHz to 1.3 GHz
Predecessor Sandy Bridge (tock)
Ivy Bridge (tick)
Successor Broadwell (tick)
Skylake (tock)
Socket(s)
LGA 1150
rPGA 947
BGA 1364
BGA 1168
LGA 2011-v3
Brand name(s)
Core i3 Series
Core i5 Series
Core i7 Series
Haswell is the codename for a processor microarchitecture developed by Intel as the successor to the Ivy Bridge architecture.[1] It uses a 22 nm process.[2] Intel officially announced CPUs with this microarchitecture on June 4, 2013 at Computex Taipei 2013.[3] With Haswell, Intel introduced a low-power processor designed for convertible or "hybrid" Ultrabooks, having the Y suffix. Intel demonstrated a working Haswell chip at the 2011 Intel Developer Forum.[4]
Haswell CPUs are used in conjunction with the Intel 8 Series chipsets and Intel 9 Series chipsets.
Contents [hide]
1 Design
1.1 Notes
1.2 Performance
2 Technology
2.1 Features carried over from Ivy Bridge
2.2 New features
2.3 Expected server processors features
2.4 Haswell Refresh
3 List of Haswell processors
3.1 Desktop processors
3.2 Server processors
3.3 Mobile processors
4 Roadmap
5 See also
6 References
7 External links
Design[edit]
The Haswell architecture is specifically designed[5] to optimize the power savings and performance benefits from the move to FinFET (non-planar, "3D") transistors on the improved 22 nm process node.[6]
Haswell has been launched in three major forms:[7]
Desktop version (LGA 1150 socket): Haswell-DT
Mobile/Laptop version (PGA socket): Haswell-MB
BGA version:
47 W and 57 W TDP classes: Haswell-H (For "All-in-one" systems, Mini-ITX form factor motherboards, and other small footprint formats.)
13.5 W and 15 W TDP classes (MCP): Haswell-ULT (For Intel's UltraBook platform.)
10 W TDP class (SoC): Haswell-ULX (For tablets and certain UltraBook-class implementations.)
Notes[edit]
ULT = Ultra Low TDP; ULX = Ultra Low eXtreme TDP
Only certain quad-core variants and BGA R-series SKUs receive GT3e (Intel Iris Pro 5200) integrated graphics. All other models have GT3 (Intel HD 5000 or Intel Iris 5100), GT2 (Intel HD 4200, 4400, 4600, P4600 or P4700) or GT1 (Intel HD Graphics) integrated graphics.[8] See also Intel HD and Iris Graphics for more details.
Due to the low power requirements of tablet and UltraBook platforms, Haswell-ULT and Haswell-ULX are only available in dual-core configurations. All other versions come as dual- or quad-core variants.
Performance[edit]
Compared to Ivy Bridge:
Approximately 8% better vector processing performance.[9]
Up to 6% faster single-threaded performance.
6% faster multi-threaded performance.
Desktop variants of Haswell draw between 8% and 23% more power under load than Ivy Bridge.[9][10][11]
A 6% increase in sequential CPU performance (eight execution ports per core versus six).[9]
Up to 20% performance increase over the integrated HD4000 GPU (Haswell HD4600 vs Ivy Bridge's built-in Intel HD4000).[9]
Total performance improvement on average is about 3%.[9]
Around 15 °C hotter than Ivy Bridge, while clock frequencies of 4.6 GHz are achievable.[12][13][14][15][16][17]
Technology[edit]
See also: Intel HD Graphics
Features carried over from Ivy Bridge[edit]
22 nm manufacturing process
3D tri-gate transistors
Micro-operation cache capable of storing 1.5 K micro-operations (approximately 6 KB in size)[18]
14- to 19-stage instruction pipeline, depending on the micro-operation cache hit or miss (the same approach as used in predecessor CPUs, Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge)[18]
Mainstream variants are up to quad-core[19]
Native support for dual-channel DDR3 memory,[20] with up to 32 GB of RAM on LGA 1150 variants
64 KB (32 KB Instruction + 32 KB Data) L1 cache and 256 KB L2 cache per core[21]
A total of 16 PCI Express 3.0 lanes
New features[edit]
Wider core: fourth ALU, third AGU, second branch prediction unit, deeper buffers, higher cache bandwidth, improved front-end and memory controller
New instructions[22] (HNI, includes Advanced Vector Extensions 2(AVX2), gather, BMI1, BMI2, ABM and FMA3 support).[23]
The instruction decode queue, which holds instructions after they have been decoded, is no longer statically partitioned between the two threads that each core can service.[18]
New sockets and chipsets:
LGA 1150 for desktops, and rPGA947 and BGA1364 for the mobile market.[24]
Z97 (performance) and H97 (mainstream) chipsets for the Haswell Refresh and Broadwell, in Q2 2014.[25]
LGA 2011-v3 with X99 chipset for the enthusiast-class desktop platform Haswell-E.[26]
Intel Transactional Synchronization Extensions (TSX) for the Haswell-EX variant. In August 2014 Intel announced that a bug exists in the TSX implementation on the current steppings of Haswell, Haswell-E, Haswell-EP and early Broadwell CPUs, which resulted in disabling the TSX feature on affected CPUs via a microcode update.[27][28][29][30]
Hardware graphics support for Direct3D 11.1 and OpenGL 4.3.[31][32][33]
DDR4 for the enterprise/server variant (Haswell-EX and E5v3 SKUs)[34] and for the Enthusiast-Class Desktop Platform Haswell-E[35]
Variable Base clock (BClk)[36] like LGA 2011.[37]
Four versions of the integrated GPU: GT1, GT2, GT3 and GT3e, where GT3 version has 40 execution units (EUs). Haswell's predecessor, Ivy Bridge, has a maximum of 16 EUs. GT3e version with 40 EUs and on-package 128 MB of embedded DRAM (eDRAM), called Crystalwell, is available only in mobile H-SKUs and desktop (BGA-only) R-SKUs. Effectively, this eDRAM is a Level 4 cache; it is shared dynamically between the on-die GPU and CPU, and serving as a victim cache to the CPU's Level 3 cache.[38][39][40][41][42]
Optional support for Thunderbolt technology and Thunderbolt 2.0[43][44]
Fully integrated voltage regulator (FIVR), thereby moving some of the components from motherboard onto the CPU.[45][46][47]
New advanced power-saving system; due to Haswell's new low-power C6 and C7 sleep states, not all power supply units (PSUs) are suitable for computers with Haswell CPUs.[48][49]
37, 47, 57 W thermal design power (TDP) mobile processors.[19]
35, 45, 65, 84, 95 and 130–140 W (high-end, Haswell-E) TDP desktop processors.[19]
15 W TDP processors for the Ultrabook platform (multi-chip package like Westmere)[50] leading to reduced heat, which results in thinner as well as lighter Ultrabooks, but the performance level is lower than the 17 W version.[51]
Shrink of the Platform Controller Hub (PCH), from 65 nm to 32 nm.[52]
Haswell-EP models with more than 10 cores support cluster on die (COD) operation mode, allowing CPU's multiple columns of cores and last level cache (LLC) slices to be logically divided into what is presented as two non-uniform memory access (NUMA) CPUs to the operating system. By keeping data and instructions local to the "partition" of CPU which is processing them, thus decreasing the LLC access latency, COD brings performance improvements to NUMA-aware operating systems and applications.[53]
Translation lookaside buffer sizes[54][55]
Cache Page Size
Name Level 4 KB 2 MB 1 GB
DTLB 1st 64 32 4
ITLB 1st 128 8 / logical core none
STLB 2nd 512 none
Expected server processors features[edit]
Release by the end of 2014.[citation needed]
Haswell-EP variant, with up to 18 cores and marketed as Xeon E5 2600 v3 series.[56]
Haswell-EX variant, with 18–20 cores[citation needed] and functioning TSX.[29]
A new cache design.
Up to 35 MB total unified cache (Last Level Cache (LLC)) for Haswell-EP[57] and up to 40 MB for Haswell-EX.
LGA 2011-v3 socket replaces LGA 2011 for the Haswell EP; the new socket has the same number of pins, but it is keyed differently due to electrical incompatibility.[58][59][60]
The already launched Xeon E3 v3 Haswells will get a refresh in spring 2014,[61] together with a refreshed Intel C220 series PCH chipset.[62]
TDP up to 160 W for Haswell-EP.[63]
Haswell Refresh[edit]
According to Intel roadmaps, Broadwell will be released in first half of 2015, thus around the middle of 2014 Intel released a refresh of Haswell, simply titled Haswell Refresh. When compared to the original Haswell CPUs lineup, Haswell Refresh CPUs offer a modest increase in clock frequencies.[64] Haswell Refresh CPUs are supported by Intel's new 9 Series chipsets (Z97 and H97, codenamed Wildcat Point), while motherboards with 8 Series chipsets (codenamed Lynx Point) usually require a BIOS update to support Haswell Refresh CPUs.[65]
The CPUs codenamed Devil's Canyon, covering the i5 and i7 K-series stock keeping units (SKUs), employ a new and improved thermal interface material (TIM) called next-generation polymer thermal interface material (NGPTIM). This improved TIM reduces the CPU's operating temperatures and improves the overclocking potential, as something that had been problematic since the introduction of Ivy Bridge.[66] Other changes for the Devil's Canyon CPUs include a TDP increase to 88 W, additional decoupling capacitors to help smooth out the outputs from the fully integrated voltage regulator (FIVR), and support for the VT-d that was previously limited to non-K-series SKUs.[67] TSX was another feature brought over from the non-K-series SKUs, until August 2014 when a microcode update disabled TSX due to a bug that was discovered in its implementation.[29][30]
Intel also released the Pentium Anniversary Edition (Pentium G3258), an unlocked and highly overclockable processor that marks 20 years of "Pentium" as a brand.

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Message 1577407 - Posted: 24 Sep 2014, 23:59:49 UTC

I don't have the excess cash for haswell-e, just getting this PC repaired will require a larger xl-atx case and a cpu cooler for the EVGA x79 Classified and 3820 cpu and this task is still a few months from completion.

Now as to X99, Asus is good, and so is EVGA, plus I'd go with anything besides the base cpu.
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Message 1577517 - Posted: 25 Sep 2014, 8:12:59 UTC

Thanks Zoom for the information. My computer will be a complete rebuild as my current I 7 980X was built in 2010. The reason why I have selected that motherboard is because it supports DDR 4 ram and I see there is no point in building on DDR 3 only technology, since this computer will be laughing me another 4 years possibly longer.
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Message 1577521 - Posted: 25 Sep 2014, 8:31:22 UTC - in response to Message 1577517.  
Last modified: 25 Sep 2014, 8:31:48 UTC

I'd go for an i5, highest clock rate, and a motherboard with 4 PCI*16 slots.
Put on 4*GTX 750Tis (or GTX960/Ti when they come out) & not bother with using the CPU to crunch, just feed the GPUs.
Low power consumption, lots of crunching.
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Message 1577531 - Posted: 25 Sep 2014, 8:52:50 UTC

I like your thinking Grant however I will be crunching CPU projects as well such as Rosetta, World Community grid, LHC at home 1.0 & GPU grid
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Message 1577675 - Posted: 25 Sep 2014, 15:38:29 UTC

the x99-deluxe doesn't support ramdisk, you would need the rampage board.
the 5960x doesn't run very hot until you aggressively overclock it.
the new nvidia cards do provide good performance at lower power consumption.
if you decided to get the rampage board to support ramdisk, you could opt for even more than 16gb of ram so that the ramdisk program would have even more memory help further speed up your system.
if you decide not to get the rampage board, the newer samsung ssd drives support ram caching as well.
cases are a matter of taste, a cooler master haf x might be too big for some, too small for others.
750w might barely do it but 850w is a better idea so you're not limited to only non-power hungry video cards and also to give you the option to overclock the cpu.
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Message 1578005 - Posted: 26 Sep 2014, 6:46:38 UTC - in response to Message 1577675.  

if you decided to get the rampage board to support ramdisk, you could opt for even more than 16gb of ram so that the ramdisk program would have even more memory help further speed up your system.

Benefits of a RAM disk are minimal to non existent for most applications. Applications where a RAM disk would help, you're better off using a SSD.
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Message 1578021 - Posted: 26 Sep 2014, 7:14:40 UTC
Last modified: 26 Sep 2014, 7:17:52 UTC

Thanks woo hoo who and grant. I believe there are some advantages using a RAM disk over at World Community Grid especially with their Clean Energy 2 project with this particular project checkpoints can sometimes be up to 6 hours apart. I am under the impression with the rampage motherboard RAMdisk feature that when you shut down it saves everything and starts from where it left or when reloaded. Hence the reason why I am liking this idea
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Message 1578032 - Posted: 26 Sep 2014, 7:49:21 UTC - in response to Message 1578021.  

RAM disks were great back in the days of Stepper Motor & early Voice Coil HDDs. When Microsoft finally released Smartdrv to cache reads & writes, the benefits of RAM disks became minimal.

It must be at least 10 (more likely closer to 20) years since I have seen a review comparing a RAM drive with OS caching of a HDD. Even back then, the RAM drive generally lost out due to it's incredibly small capacity & high cost, and the fact that it's performance benefit often wasn't that much better than caching of a HDD by the Operating System.
Now we have SSDs that not only leave HDDs behind, but HDDs with very large RAM caches (Operating system or hardware) can't compete.

RAM is most effective at boosting performance when used by the Operating System. If disk Input/Output is an issue, use a SSD. Even just having the OS on a SSD makes a huge difference to general performance & system responsiveness.
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Message 1578128 - Posted: 26 Sep 2014, 12:56:14 UTC - in response to Message 1578021.  

Thanks woo hoo who and grant. I believe there are some advantages using a RAM disk over at World Community Grid especially with their Clean Energy 2 project with this particular project checkpoints can sometimes be up to 6 hours apart. I am under the impression with the rampage motherboard RAMdisk feature that when you shut down it saves everything and starts from where it left or when reloaded. Hence the reason why I am liking this idea

I don't think I would pay the extra money to buy a MB just to get the ramdisk software that comes with it. When you can get free ramdisk software. I use the free version of Dataram RAMDisk. The free version does have a 4GB limit, but that is more than enough for my needs. As the largest I use on a system with 24GB of RAM is only 2GB for BOINC.
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Message 1578200 - Posted: 26 Sep 2014, 14:56:04 UTC

my motherboard is compatible with the Asus ramdisk software but i've never even touched it. using SSD caching or an SSD as a boot drive provides noticeable improvements over HDD. in theory a ramdisk would be faster but you might not notice the difference versus ssd, but ram costs a lot more than ssd and you have a delay when you first boot up as the ramdisk must initially load. furthermore, ramdisks are limited by the amount of ram that you can actually stuff on your motherboard and if your system locks up before the ramdisk writes back data to a non-volatile area, you lose the data.
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Message 1580706 - Posted: 1 Oct 2014, 22:25:29 UTC

For everyday run-of-the-mill use and applications plus Boinc what is the average size of the SSD that people use? I.e. 250, 500 gig or a 1 TB drive
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Message 1580710 - Posted: 1 Oct 2014, 22:51:05 UTC - in response to Message 1580706.  
Last modified: 1 Oct 2014, 23:03:54 UTC

For a multi-use computer I'd go with the 1 TB drive. Better to have the extra room for all your photos and applications, than finding out that you ran out of space and need to buy a larger Hard drive.
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Message 1580714 - Posted: 1 Oct 2014, 23:00:16 UTC - in response to Message 1580706.  

For everyday run-of-the-mill use and applications plus Boinc what is the average size of the SSD that people use? I.e. 250, 500 gig or a 1 TB drive

I use a 120GB in my HTPC and a 240GB in my main gaming machine. I only use the SSDs for the OS & apps. For storage I have a 9TB RAID5 set in my gaming machine & my HTPC has two 2.5" 750GB drives in RAID0.

If the 480/512GB SSD drives are a good deal on Black Friday I might get one. Otherwise I may wait until I can get a SATA Express SSD.
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Message 1580752 - Posted: 2 Oct 2014, 0:42:25 UTC
Last modified: 2 Oct 2014, 0:42:52 UTC

I can say this about the Haswell-E cpus and motherboards, I do like them, but older cpus and motherboards are more in My price range, I recently won My 2nd and final i7 3820 cpu.

In November I plan on doing this:

repay My card
Synthetic Oil Change
Cooler Master Glacer 240L
Ziploc Containers
2-6 socks

In December:

repay-card
Property Taxes/1(12/10)[100.00](part 2 in March 2015)
ZX2 speedo/tach assembly
TV lamp
Gundam00 season 1 DVDs
2053 Monitor repair kit
1912 Monitor repair kit
Thermaltake 3.0 Pro cpu cooler[100](for a gpu, I have adapters that will mount an Nvidia card and a cpu cooler like this together, almost any gpu from a 570 and up would do).

In January:
repay-card
Azza 4000 case

In February:
repay-card
Phanteks Enthoo Primo case

In March:
repay-card
Phanteks Enthoo Luxe case
Property Taxes/2(04/10)[100.00]
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Message 1580855 - Posted: 2 Oct 2014, 7:39:01 UTC
Last modified: 2 Oct 2014, 7:40:32 UTC

Thanks for hard drive feedback. I was expecting people to say the bigger option is better
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Message 1580867 - Posted: 2 Oct 2014, 8:41:36 UTC - in response to Message 1580855.  

Thanks for hard drive feedback. I was expecting people to say the bigger option is better

Larger SSDs have better performance than the same model but of a smaller capacity, but unless you're doing heavy database work you're not likely to ever notice the difference. Larger SSDs generally are cheaper than the smaller capacity drives when comparing the cost per GB. Generally the drive second from the top is usually the sweet spot.
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Message 1581354 - Posted: 3 Oct 2014, 2:58:44 UTC

For SSDs I try to see what's popular and what's a good deal. 250GB is popular right now. 512GB for $210 and 240GB for $100 look like good deals to me.
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Message 1596270 - Posted: 3 Nov 2014, 2:43:36 UTC

Here is the list of computer parts that I will be looking at building at some stage what are people's thoughts? It will be used across most projects that Boinc provides. The price is about 5 weeks old. So cost should be less now. I am mainly interested in your thoughts in regards to the Nvidia card

CASE Lian-Li PC-P50WB Armorsuit side window Aluminium MID Tower
MOTHERBOARD - ASUS Rampage V Extreme X99 ATX LGA2011-v3 (reason for board selection is one I like Asus and to you have the option to use software to create a RAMdisk with in the ram with the ability to automatically save where tasks are up to. This is a feature that will really only be needed in World Community Grid for the clean energy project phase 2
RAM - Corsair 16GB (4x4GB) DDR4 2800MHz Vengeance LPX Black DIMM
(MEMCOR40401)
Video Cards – ASUS GTX980-4GD5 PCIE (AVN083)
CPU – Intel Haswell Extreme Series Core i7 5960X 8 Core 3.0Ghz, 20MB Cache (CPUIT5960X)
CPU COOLER - Noctua NH-D15 Dual Radiator Quiet CPU COOLER with two NH-A15 150mm Fans. Extreme cooling with low noise.
Case Fans-- 2x Noctua NF-A14 PWM 140mm Very high air flow and low noise
Power Supply – Corsair 860W AX-860i digital PSU (PSUCOR3861)
SSD – Samsung EVO 500GB (HDDSAM4500)
HDD – 2x Western Digital 1TB black edition (HD0637)
MONITOR - Viewsonic VX2363smhl-W 23" LED 1920x1080 IPS VGA DVI
HDMI White (AF2363)
OS – Windows 8.1 Pro, can downgrade to 7 Pro
BLURAY DRIVE – Asus 12x Bluray combo
CPU fans & cooler are Danish will take 5 to 6 days to arrive

$6236 plus GST 15% NZD built delivered to my door by a local company who coincidentally built my current machine price is

Downgrade options: take away amount
Video card— ASUS Strix GTX780-2OC-6GD5 PCIE Graphics Card (AVN082) 219
I have a 7970 that I will swap in to this build
Downgrade to 5930K 450 (am reluctant to do this unless there is a major performance increase)

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Message 1596275 - Posted: 3 Nov 2014, 2:57:07 UTC

I'm buying two types of cases, 2 Azza GT1 cases and 1 Phanteks Enthoo Primo case, the 1st case will be an Azza GT1 next month. Both are full towers.
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