We have much of Europe in a mess with many now realising that the open door policy is not working.

We have the US with internal dissension.

Spain using Gibraltar to hide it's internal woes with the same actions by Argentina.
Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
Iran

It's a century next year with many nations that faught during WWI holding Remembrance celebrations. However, during that conflict chemical weapons were used frequently with the major one being Mustard Gas.

The Nazi's developed their own during WWII but the question is, Why didn't they use it on the battlefields? Answer because if they did, it would have given the allies a reason to blanket Germany. end of conflict.

So.....

Syria's darketest hour

Obama Syria's chemicals grave concern

Several statements proving worrisome to sensible people.....

"Mr Obama said the US was still seeking confirmation such weapons were used, but if proved true the situation would "require America's attention"."

"The British government believes the regime of President Bashar al-Assad is responsible for the attack, Foreign Secretary William Hague said on Friday."

"French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius has warned that France must react "with force" if the use of chemical weapons was confirmed."

From the 1st link:

"Diplomats, who did not want to be named, told the Associated Press that Russia and China blocked a stronger press statement supported by Britain, France, the United States and others." WHY?

24 hours later:

"Meanwhile Russia's foreign ministry said in a statement on Friday: "The Russian side called on the Syrian government to co-operate with the UN chemical experts."

Question now is:

Localised war a la Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan or a global conflict unlike anything experienced to date?

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I think niether. Even localized war costs to damn much. And if Russia is saying Syria needs to start listening that tells me Russia is losing money selling them crap. And China is to busy with the terratorial claims in thier back yard.

With most countires economys either in the toilet or near getting flushed down one, Why would any nation take that step to fiscal doom.

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[/quote]

Old James

I tend to agree James.

An invasion of Iran is still not entirely ruled out in the future

The USA and France are hinting they might have to intervene.

Mutually exclusive.

So not military conflicts then?

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And I still think the U.S. should keep our nose out of another nations civil war. Let them kill each other off and the world will be a better place.

But no, we help them topple a government and they replace it with something just as bad and still hate our guts.

As for Iran. The UN should get some balls and tell them flat out that if you use a nuke on another your country will cease to exist.

Im not an isolationist but just because some country wants to wage a civil war That should be thier business not ours.

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[/quote]

Old James

On my mind I have one question, "Does the West need to get involved"?

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

On my mind I have one question, "Does the West need to get involved"?

no

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...

If many thousands of innocent men women and children are being slaughtered by various illegal means, allegedly including chemical warfare, is it right that the rest of the world turns a blind eye? Shouldn't we intervene on humanitarian grounds?

If they are willing to use chemical weapons, what makes you think that they are willing to listen to humanitarian arguments?

The other method is violence, essentially pick out a side to be slaughtered and do it yourself. Can't stop until they are so completely defeated that they give up their belief. Otherwise you end up with another Arab / Israel conflict that never has an end.

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Oh dearie me. What political B/S. International law has no teeth as we have all seen over the past several years. Has it stopped the conflicts or the use of chemical weapons?

Dear old Willie Vague had better learn to keep his trap shut as well as that French muppet.

I'm not being nasty as any decent human being seeing those distressing pictures of those dead children will feel pain. The fact remains - on this the West should remain clear of. Otherwise the "current" war on terror will seem but a picnic compared to what will occur.

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I'm not being nasty as any decent human being seeing those distressing pictures of those dead children will feel pain. The fact remains - on this the West should remain clear of. Otherwise the "current" war on terror will seem but a picnic compared to what will occur.

Me too, I have reservations about getting too involved in that dam business
going over there. I'd say it's best to stick with the enemies we know we've got
rather than getting involved there with the risk to gaining even more of them.

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Iraq and Iran are said to have used chemical weapons on each other in the war they had. Iraq used chemical weapons on thier own people. ( the Kurds I think ) Where was the worlds outrage at that?

I got tired of my own government supporting no good rotten dictators because we paid them a lot of cash so they would not go communist. Which in turn led a lot of innocent people being treated worse than crap.

As far as Im concerned if a nation wants to self distruct and kill each other let them.

As far as the UN goes they are usless. All it takes is one veto in the security council and its a no go.So why even bother to have a UN

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[/quote]

Old James

Talk, talk, talk. Just who talks for the dead?

At least one nation urges caution, and a surprisingly one at that.....

Germany urge caution

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The longer talking goes on, the less people get killed in the meantime.

The Merkel government has not shrunk from all relevant military roles. It sent personnel to help in Iraq and Mali, and AWACs to Libya (and to Afghanistan to free up allies' own planes for use in Libya). German Patriot batteries installed under NATO in Turkey have already detected hundreds of missiles fired in Syria this year.

1: Why are the Patriots there?
2: Nothing done to knock those missles out of the sky especially as some of those missles hit Turkey?
3: So those killed don't get a voice?

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Repost that after we've gone into Syria or in your glass walled ivory tower, do you think it's not going to happen?

However, if it does, who's going to pay for it? Our military manpower is drastically being reduced and we are in austere times.

It seems the muppets in power want their bread buttered on both sides.

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U.S. says Syria offer to show chemical attack sites 'too late'

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. military response to alleged chemical weapons attacks in Syria appeared more likely on Sunday after Washington dismissed the Syrian government's offer to allow U.N. inspection of the sites as "too late to be credible."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-syria-crisis-usa-20130821,0,5190056.story

What about all the people who have lost their lives:( Syria, is dear to me, my grandmother was from there.

Thought 'Bama was supposed to have us out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and close Gitmo. Now he is getting ready to send our children into a chemical war. I think we know who the Hawk is. Who heads our diplomatic bureaucracy? Oh, that would be the Secretary of State, Kerry.


<ed>http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/conflicts/21-08-2013/125461-false_flag-0/

Syria: The predictable and false "chemical" attack
To date, the only use of chemical weapons in Syria has been by the Syrian so-called opposition, you know, the same people (?) who indulge in cannibalism, who are rapists, torturers, thieves and terrorists, who recently sliced the heads off Kurdish children ... and why were the videos uploaded from outside Syria the day before the "attack" happened?

And just as the UN inspectors arrive... there is a so-called "chemical" incident, a false flag one of course, again, but once again, not a very intelligent ploy by the Syrian "opposition". If one is going to set up a false flag chemical weapons attack, one has to make sure it is deployed in an area where there is a massive advantage in using such weaponry, namely in an area where there is massive advantage to be gained in an active theatre of war.

So, in an area where there has been fighting until recently but where the Syrian Arab Army (Government) has been making steady progress and where the terrorist opposition forces have been getting hammered, it does not make sense for the Government forces to use nerve gas, and it makes no sense at all to use it against large numbers of civilians, including children, who appear to comprise the majority of the victims.

Therefore this morning's alleged chemical weapons attack in Ghouta, Eastern Damascus countryside, would not provide any advantage whatsoever to the Government forces, especially with the UN mission arriving in the country but it would provide a huge advantage for the "opposition" especially if the western media steamroller swings into action riding the crest of a drum-beating wave driven by politicians of the caliber of Obama, Cameron, Hague and no doubt their French poodles to justify a US intervention from Jordan.

We have seen the chemical weapons story before, only for the west to back down and refuse to investigate every time the Syrian "opposition" makes allegations the Government has used chemical weapons, when it then becomes obvious that the Government would not, did not, has not, does not and never will deploy chemical weaponry against its own people. Terrorists do, real soldiers do not.

Quite apart from all this, why were the "videos" providing "evidence" of this alleged chemical weapons attack posted on August 20, when the attack was supposed to be made in the early hours of August 21? They were certainly not uploaded from Syria.

And let us observe this from another angle: does the presence of the UN team in Syria to investigate use of weapons of mass destruction favour the Government? Yes, because it will discover the Government has not used any. Will it favour the terrorists? No, because they have used chemical weapons before and everyone knows so, that is why the west went silent about previous attacks after accusing the Government. After all, in May the UN investigation team leader, Carla del Ponte, stated there was evidence the "opposition" had used chemical agents, including Sarin gas. This came after two Syrian "opposition" leaders were caught on an audio recording of a phone conversation discussing attacks with chemical weapons and let us not forget the "opposition" laboratories last year filmed gassing rabbits with nerve agents. In this column I predicted today's event at the time.

The Syrian authorities strongly deny today's claim as being completely untrue. For the Government, these wild and absurd allegations denote the hysteria and demoralized state the "opposition" is in, as it is pressed back on all fronts.

Let us go further: with the US troops massing in Jordan, is this the event Washington needs to justify an intervention? We have seen it all before... and who would be surprised at anything Washington pulls out of the hat? After all the spectre of an August attack in Syria by Washington has been circulating for months.

And let us be intelligent here: if the attack was supposed to be launched in Syria on August 21, then why do the videos supposedly covering the supposed event show the date August 20? Because they were uploaded from London... or Washington?

Timothy Bancroft-Hinchey

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Hustlin'REDLineHussein is Frightened of Collateral Damage hurting the DEM/Libs chances in Elections '14 and '16.

Drone Hit Man knows there is No PERFECT Missle Strike. And the Reverberations of Errant Missles or Bad Intel Strikes will affect Votes and Mr. Election Fund Raiser Only Makes Decisions Based on Winning Elections.

So, Expect OBlabby to Speechify his Way Out of Any Direct Involvement.

Bound FO "IT" FO SHO.

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

We have those on these forums who bang on about diplomacy......

Shades of Cronie B-Liar

"The foreign secretary repeated his assertion that the chemical attack was carried out by the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and there was "no other plausible explanation"."

So no real intelligence then? Anyone ever stop to think that the rebels themselves did this to drag the west into giving them stronger aid or worse intervene militarily?

I've called them muppets, well I was mistaken. We're the damned muppets for voting these gobshytes in!

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Christ what damned planet are you living on? Conspiracy theory? So 9/11 & 7/7 were just figments of my imagination? Your second post regarding snipers...hmmn Assad's troops were they? You know that for certain? US/UK intelligence know that for certain?

The Middle East is a flaming tinderbox just waiting for the fuse to blow. When it does so Al Queada will welcome it.

Your 30 nations responding on "Humanitarian Grounds" Lovely, nice thoughts and have to agree on that ground. However, where's the troops/police to cater for regular 9/11 & 7/7's throughout the West?

If you think that won't happen, time you left that tower and smell the roses.

As for playing a full part? What with & where's the money going to come from?

Edit:

Chilling warning from 1914

"Behind the outrage at Sarajevo was an avowedly terrorist organisation with a cult of sacrifice, death and revenge: extra- territorial, secretive, scattered in cells across political borders, its links to any sovereign government were oblique.’

Sound familiar?

Al Qaeda stokes the ire of Muslims angry at what they see as the defilement of their lands by the oil-seeking, infidel West."

"Putin’s spokesmen deplore the poison gas attack, but suggest it might have been the work of the Syrian rebels, which include Al Qaeda elements. They point out that Assad’s military is winning and doesn’t need to resort to using illegal weapons, and suggest that only the rebels stood to gain from the international anger aroused by such an attack."

Care to write to Putin & tell him he's a conspiracy theorist?

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I think it best we let them go at each other till one side wins. Then the Islamic west haters have no reason to blame us for what happens. They can blame themselves for a change.

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[/quote]

Old James

Harsh that may seem, it's the only correct thing for the West to do otherwise....

So +1

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