Don’t talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking


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Callum
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Message 991919 - Posted: 25 Apr 2010, 23:04:28 UTC

A story in the news today that caught my eye...

THE aliens are out there and Earth had better watch out, at least according to Stephen Hawking. He has suggested that extraterrestrials are almost certain to exist — but that instead of seeking them out, humanity should be doing all it that can to avoid any contact.

The suggestions come in a new documentary series in which Hawking, one of the world’s leading scientists, will set out his latest thinking on some of the universe’s greatest mysteries.

Alien life, he will suggest, is almost certain to exist in many other parts of the universe: not just in planets, but perhaps in the centre of stars or even floating in interplanetary space.

Hawking’s logic on aliens is, for him, unusually simple. The universe, he points out, has 100 billion galaxies, each containing hundreds of millions of stars. In such a big place, Earth is unlikely to be the only planet where life has evolved.

“To my mathematical brain, the numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly rational,” he said. “The real challenge is to work out what aliens might actually be like.”

The answer, he suggests, is that most of it will be the equivalent of microbes or simple animals — the sort of life that has dominated Earth for most of its history.

One scene in his documentary for the Discovery Channel shows herds of two-legged herbivores browsing on an alien cliff-face where they are picked off by flying, yellow lizard-like predators. Another shows glowing fluorescent aquatic animals forming vast shoals in the oceans thought to underlie the thick ice coating Europa, one of the moons of Jupiter.

Such scenes are speculative, but Hawking uses them to lead on to a serious point: that a few life forms could be intelligent and pose a threat. Hawking believes that contact with such a species could be devastating for humanity.

He suggests that aliens might simply raid Earth for its resources and then move on: “We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn’t want to meet. I imagine they might exist in massive ships, having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonise whatever planets they can reach.”

He concludes that trying to make contact with alien races is “a little too risky”. He said: “If aliens ever visit us, I think the outcome would be much as when Christopher Columbus first landed in America, which didn’t turn out very well for the Native Americans.”

The completion of the documentary marks a triumph for Hawking, now 68, who is paralysed by motor neurone disease and has very limited powers of communication. The project took him and his producers three years, during which he insisted on rewriting large chunks of the script and checking the filming.

John Smithson, executive producer for Discovery, said: “He wanted to make a programme that was entertaining for a general audience as well as scientific and that’s a tough job, given the complexity of the ideas involved.”

Hawking has suggested the possibility of alien life before but his views have been clarified by a series of scientific breakthroughs, such as the discovery, since 1995, of more than 450 planets orbiting distant stars, showing that planets are a common phenomenon.

So far, all the new planets found have been far larger than Earth, but only because the telescopes used to detect them are not sensitive enough to detect Earth-sized bodies at such distances.

Another breakthrough is the discovery that life on Earth has proven able to colonise its most extreme environments. If life can survive and evolve there, scientists reason, then perhaps nowhere is out of bounds.

Hawking’s belief in aliens places him in good scientific company. In his recent Wonders of the Solar System BBC series, Professor Brian Cox backed the idea, too, suggesting Mars, Europa and Titan, a moon of Saturn, as likely places to look.

Similarly, Lord Rees, the astronomer royal, warned in a lecture earlier this year that aliens might prove to be beyond human understanding.

“I suspect there could be life and intelligence out there in forms we can’t conceive,” he said. “Just as a chimpanzee can’t understand quantum theory, it could be there are aspects of reality that are beyond the capacity of our brains.”


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7107207.ece

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Message 991924 - Posted: 25 Apr 2010, 23:26:27 UTC - in response to Message 991919.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7107207.ece

Its a good article, i tend to agree with Prof. Hawking. Intelligent life, if its anything like us, will want to propagate its own species and we would just be a "curiosity" to them.

The article says:
Stephen Hawking's Universe begins on the Discovery Channel on Sunday May 9 at 9pm

I will be watching that on TV, looking forward to it with great interest. Thanks Callum,

John.

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Message 992054 - Posted: 26 Apr 2010, 13:45:46 UTC - in response to Message 991919.
Last modified: 26 Apr 2010, 13:49:09 UTC

I'm not agree, we can't compare

Christopher Columbus first landed in America
to aliens visit.
At the time of Christopher Columbus (1492) the civilizations were at war among themselves, fighting for everything: they contesting a new land.
To be able to travel the universe through galaxies (to have evolved), they must live in harmony with each other.
It is not possible that they are ancient civilizations that are still struggling among themselves or with other to get anything
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Message 992200 - Posted: 27 Apr 2010, 0:44:54 UTC - in response to Message 992054.
Last modified: 27 Apr 2010, 0:46:53 UTC

I'm not agree, we can't compare
Christopher Columbus first landed in America
to aliens visit.
At the time of Christopher Columbus (1492) the civilizations were at war among themselves, fighting for everything: they contesting a new land.
To be able to travel the universe through galaxies (to have evolved), they must live in harmony with each other.
It is not possible that they are ancient civilizations that are still struggling among themselves or with other to get anything

It makes for an interesting debate Antonio,

My view would be to wait until we have detected at least 10 other intelligent species and we know for sure that the "Universal way" is to not kill or eat all the other species.

Think about it. Us humans eat the vast majority of other species on our own planet Earth. We kill and control all the other species, we think we have the right to dominate all the other animals. We have also been killing each other for thousands or millions of years. If Darwin style "natural selection" proves to be common in other species in the universe, then we best keep radio silence until we are sure.

John.
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Message 992207 - Posted: 27 Apr 2010, 1:16:17 UTC - in response to Message 992200.



Think about it. Us humans eat the vast majority of other species on our own planet Earth. We kill and control all the other species, we think we have the right to dominate all the other animals. We have also been killing each other for thousands or millions of years. If Darwin style "natural selection" proves to be common in other species in the universe, then we best keep radio silence until we are sure.

John.


Many of the species here on earth prey on each other, or can actually practice war with weapons, such as chimps. Natural Selection doesn't seem to have many morals, more of a who ever comes out on top ajenda. There are vast possibilities as Hawking pointed out, and one can never fully know until we meet.

We do have one huge layer of protection. Unless someone has figured out if life sized workholes can work, the distance between us means that if another civilization wants to put a great deal of resources toward visiting us, when our radio signature is very recent, and not near the bandwidth we ourselves are searching, and the target is at most uncertain, and through time dilation, what could be a few years ship time, is massivly longer for who ever was on the alien planet.

They may leave their planet only to return thousands of years in their own futere. For an uncertain target?

Steve

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Message 992230 - Posted: 27 Apr 2010, 6:19:10 UTC
Last modified: 27 Apr 2010, 6:47:21 UTC

Hawking's must have sensed similar danger in To Serve Man, my favorite Twilight Zone episode!

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Message 992285 - Posted: 27 Apr 2010, 11:37:41 UTC - in response to Message 992207.
Last modified: 27 Apr 2010, 11:39:55 UTC


Many of the species here on earth prey on each other, or can actually practice war with weapons, such as chimps. Natural Selection doesn't seem to have many morals, more of a who ever comes out on top ajenda. There are vast possibilities as Hawking pointed out, and one can never fully know until we meet.

We do have one huge layer of protection. Unless someone has figured out if life sized workholes can work, the distance between us means that if another civilization wants to put a great deal of resources toward visiting us, when our radio signature is very recent, and not near the bandwidth we ourselves are searching, and the target is at most uncertain, and through time dilation, what could be a few years ship time, is massivly longer for who ever was on the alien planet.

They may leave their planet only to return thousands of years in their own futere. For an uncertain target?

Steve

Steve,
You sum it up very nicely, Natural Selection has no Moral's. The best and strongest species win's, and usually dominates. And as we clearly see from archaeology records, many weaker species of animals completely die away.

If we were to discover another species of animal identical to ourselves on another planet, we would end up going to war with them. The battle would be identical to the wars we watch on our TV news channels every evening. I bet we would call them "terrorists" and "insurgents" and "illegal alien's", then bomb them into submission. We humans are really the bad guys in this vast universe. We should be frightened of our own instinct to kill.

Steve, your right. Time and distance in space protects us from the aliens. But it also protects the aliens from us killing them!

John.
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Message 992300 - Posted: 27 Apr 2010, 13:03:52 UTC - in response to Message 992200.

It makes for an interesting debate Antonio,

My view would be to wait until we have detected at least 10 other intelligent species and we know for sure that the "Universal way" is to not kill or eat all the other species.

Think about it. Us humans eat the vast majority of other species on our own planet Earth. We kill and control all the other species, we think we have the right to dominate all the other animals. We have also been killing each other for thousands or millions of years. If Darwin style "natural selection" proves to be common in other species in the universe, then we best keep radio silence until we are sure.

John.


Are you vegetarian?
Do you think that killing animals is wrong?

It isn't wrong because plants and animals are both living beings, the only difference is that plants do not move, and because they aren't intelligent living beings.
So also if the aliens had the "natural selection" with their unintelligent living beings, when we meet we will not fight because we are both intelligent beings.

The battle would be identical to the wars we watch on our TV news channels every evening. I bet we would call them "terrorists" and "insurgents" and "illegal alien's", then bomb them into submission.


For this you are right, because as we also in the alien peoples there might be some "terrorist", crazy or delayed that does not respect the laws (agreements between people who do not fight more), so there may be some minor problems.


In any civilization if there were no crazy or delayed, the people would live in "heaven"
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Message 992380 - Posted: 28 Apr 2010, 1:38:37 UTC - in response to Message 992300.


Are you vegetarian?
Do you think that killing animals is wrong?

No, i eat meat every day, and i enjoy it. The point i was making was that mankind goes way beyond simple natural selection. I'm all for farming and controlling the animals we need for food.... this is nature! But we say we are clever and intelligent but we have driven many of the other animals to the edge of extingtion..... not for food, not because we want to eat them.... But killing them for sport, and killing them because they bigger than us and more fierce.

We drive other animals to the brink of extinction because we want ALL the land on the planet, we think all the land should be for us to develope. So we keep building more and more roads into the jungles of south America and into central Africa, further into the territory the other animals need. This land belongs to all the animals, they don't understand borders and fences that mankind draws on our maps. So we kill the animals and take their land.

This is what we would do to any other planet we find, and any species that lives there, even if they are clever and intelligent.

John.
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Message 992445 - Posted: 28 Apr 2010, 13:15:52 UTC - in response to Message 992380.

In the previous message I said only if it is right to eat animals,
but really I was referring to all: kill to eat, to sport, etc.

For me it isn't wrong because they aren't intelligent beings so we can make them what we want,
to you (and others) it may also be wrong,
it depends on your religion and your ideas.

For anyone to kill intelligent creatures must be wrong, because we have the same importance,
who doesn't think this he is racist or delayed.


In fact for aliens, to kill unintelligent beings or it is right or it is wrong,
for them to kill intelligent beings (hunams) must be wrong,
otherwise they would be racist or delayed and they would not have evolved.
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Message 992450 - Posted: 28 Apr 2010, 13:46:07 UTC
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If any alien race came across us, they'd be that technologically advanced it's not funny. I've seen a few quotes as to us being "intelligent beings" or similar. For an advanced race to meet us would be like us studying a tribe of chimpanzees. That's how 'intelligent', 'evolved' 'clever' we'd seem to them.
We seem to believe we have an enormous knowledge of the universe. Well, compared to 20 years ago, we have. Compare that to 500 years ago, and we are 'godlike'. Imagine how much we'll know in 100 years. Imagine the technology, and the length of time to develop it to get to earth from elsewhere. We'd look damn well like cavemen, or still just apes, in technological comparison. Let alone knowledge of the universe.
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Message 992608 - Posted: 29 Apr 2010, 0:22:05 UTC - in response to Message 992450.

If any alien race came across us, they'd be that technologically advanced it's not funny. I've seen a few quotes as to us being "intelligent beings" or similar. For an advanced race to meet us would be like us studying a tribe of chimpanzees. That's how 'intelligent', 'evolved' 'clever' we'd seem to them.
We seem to believe we have an enormous knowledge of the universe. Well, compared to 20 years ago, we have. Compare that to 500 years ago, and we are 'godlike'. Imagine how much we'll know in 100 years. Imagine the technology, and the length of time to develop it to get to earth from elsewhere. We'd look damn well like cavemen, or still just apes, in technological comparison. Let alone knowledge of the universe.


One thing to think about... The more advanced an alien civilization might be, the less chance of them being so close we wouldn't have noticed. But who knows, there may even be some form of life on Europa, as well as countless other planets or moons. As far as our knowledge goes, we are constrained by our present knowledge of physics, which as you point out is ever increasing. I wish I could live for thousands if not millions of years, to witness all the new knowledge that will certainly come. I hope that humans aren't extinct before signs of intelligent life reach earth. I can say one thing, this certainly makes one think.

Steve
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Message 992633 - Posted: 29 Apr 2010, 4:14:12 UTC - in response to Message 992608.
Last modified: 29 Apr 2010, 4:16:00 UTC

I wish I could live for thousands if not millions of years, to witness all the new knowledge that will certainly come.
Steve

LOL..... Yes, it reminds me of the movie "Back to the Future III" when the bad guy causes havoc when he brings the sports almanac back into the past and starts betting on future results.

I wish i could read an Almanac to tell me what happens in the future of science, and the future of mankind. I bet we contact lots of other intelligent species on other planets.

John.
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Message 992665 - Posted: 29 Apr 2010, 11:47:30 UTC - in response to Message 992633.
Last modified: 29 Apr 2010, 12:05:55 UTC

--[Snip]--


Time and distance in space protects us from the aliens. But it also protects the aliens from us killing them!


--[Snip]--


One thing to think about... The more advanced an alien civilization might be, the less chance of them being so close we wouldn't have noticed.


--[Snip]--

I would think the other way around, if they are that advanced, they could be invisible to us (4th dimension), or stealth, different wavelenght of 'light' they would use.
Communicate not by voice, but by RF, etc., etc.

It probably will be the other way around! If 'they' found a way to 'travel', such distances, in a relatively short time.

And why would 'they' leave their habitat? Their SUN (star) Super-nova-ed?
If 'they' live on a planet, (a bit) similar to ours?
Waisted and used all resources. Then they surely can or would be dangerous, cause they'll be only interrested in our resources and our-selves.

Stephen Hawking does have a point, 'we' tend to see things, from 'our' point of view, same chance, 'they' do too.

Maybe 'they' found way's to communicate, we haven't even thought of.
Well, too many maybe's.......and I hope 'they' don't like meat or human-flesh......, aren't 20 feet tall, made out of stainless-steel or worse (wolfram, irridium, diamant)
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Message 992688 - Posted: 29 Apr 2010, 13:34:37 UTC - in response to Message 992665.

If aliens arrive on Earth, they will not fight against us for

interrested in our resources and our-selves.


In fact,
To be able to travel the universe through galaxies (to have evolved), they must live in harmony with each other.
It is not possible that they are ancient civilizations that are still struggling among themselves or with other to get anything

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Message 993457 - Posted: 2 May 2010, 8:08:54 UTC

And exactly what do you base that pearl of wisdom upon? Your HUMAN intuition?
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Message 993483 - Posted: 2 May 2010, 12:06:22 UTC


Seth Shostak (Sr. Astronomer, SETI Institute) participates in Larry King´s show---->Larry King Live: Are Aliens a threat? pt 1/3 (30/4/2010)



Guests in the show are: Dr. Michio Kaku (Physicist), Dan Aykroyd (Actor), David Brin (Astronomer and Sci-Fi author)
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Message 993906 - Posted: 3 May 2010, 23:16:14 UTC - in response to Message 993483.


Seth Shostak (Sr. Astronomer, SETI Institute) participates in Larry King´s show---->Larry King Live: Are Aliens a threat? pt 1/3 (30/4/2010)



Guests in the show are: Dr. Michio Kaku (Physicist), Dan Aykroyd (Actor), David Brin (Astronomer and Sci-Fi author)


Just watched those Larry King videos. Really interesting chat, interesting panel of guests for the show! Enjoyed the debate.

John.
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Message 995232 - Posted: 10 May 2010, 0:49:12 UTC - in response to Message 991924.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7107207.ece

Its a good article, i tend to agree with Prof. Hawking. Intelligent life, if its anything like us, will want to propagate its own species and we would just be a "curiosity" to them.

The article says:
Stephen Hawking's Universe begins on the Discovery Channel on Sunday May 9 at 9pm

I will be watching that on TV, looking forward to it with great interest. Thanks Callum,

John.

My local programming schedule on Discovery Channel is showing a 'Deadliest Catch' marathon running well passed 9pm, and the channel's website is showing the same with no mention of Hawking's show on their schedule. Does anyone know if Hawking's show is still going to be aired tonight?

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Message 995237 - Posted: 10 May 2010, 1:32:58 UTC - in response to Message 995232.

If you want to see Hawking's Universe, all episodes are on Youtube already. Just need to download the 10 minute increments, and i used Moviemaker to stick them all together.
That way, you won't miss any of the 6 episodes.
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