Who, as a USA resident, could have a problem with this?
Clint made a statement. Simple but true..........

Illegals.....take heed..........get offfa my lawn.
As it should be in this country.

But this film is about the collision of two cultures that cannot understand each other.

I cannot stand illegals..........
The rest are welcome.



Grand Torino....

And if this offends you.....so be it.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Who, as a USA resident, could have a problem with this?
Clint made a statement. Simple but true..........

Illegals.....take heed..........get offfa my lawn.
As it should be in this country.


Grand Torino....

And if this offends you.....so be it.

Good movie! Minor thing though, clint eastwood did not make that remark, his character did (Walt Kowalski). A fictional movie should not offend...

Or are you saying that you support someone who makes that remark 'in real life' ?

Who, as a USA resident, could have a problem with this?
Clint made a statement. Simple but true..........

Illegals.....take heed..........get offfa my lawn.
As it should be in this country.


Grand Torino....

And if this offends you.....so be it.

Good movie! Minor thing though, clint eastwood did not make that remark, his character did (Walt Kowalski). A fictional movie should not offend...

Or are you saying that you support someone who makes that remark 'in real life' ?

Don't pick nits with me..........

I am not in the mood.

Get offa my lawn.

Clint was first in my book when he launched that prick into oblivion in the first 'Dirty Harry' flick. And so many more.

Frickin' illegals......go frickin' home.

Get offa my lawn.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Have I made myself clear?

Or do you want more explanation?

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

I am an American citizen.............
Born here of German immigrant parents...........
LEGALL immigrants...............
They had to know the language and pass tests about what our country stood for before the were let across the border..........

The rest of you have nothing to say to me.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Have I made myself clear?

Or do you want more explanation?

Perfectly! You do not want illegals here, end of story.

Also, I want to add that it sucks that while we abide by our laws, there are those that intentionaly break immigration laws and are never brought to justice.

I'm curious, what brought this up? Was it the movie or a run in with illegals?

Have I made myself clear?

Or do you want more explanation?

Perfectly! You do not want illegals here, end of story.

Also, I want to add that it sucks that while we abide by our laws, there are those that intentionaly break immigration laws and are never brought to justice.

I'm curious, what brought this up? Was it the movie or a run in with illegals?

Does it matter?

The issue remains.......

And this begs the question......why do you ask?

In answer to your question..........it is the way I was brought up.........my Grandparents were very proud to be allowed to enter this country........

They didn't have the balls to believe that it was their right...............

The answer remains........"GET OFFA MY LAWM"


Or should I put it more literaly for you miserable fu........s

Get the F out of our country, unless you have proper tickets.

The end game for both of us is not good.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

I find myself wondering how far back in history we can take this?
The North American Indians may have a slightly stronger opinion about who should leave than has been expressed so far in this thread.

This whole illegal immigrant thing didn't work out well for them either.

I find myself wondering how far back in history we can take this?
The North American Indians may have a slightly stronger opinion about who should leave than has been expressed so far in this thread.

This whole illegal immigrant thing didn't work out well for them either.

That is another whole issue.......
And one, that I am afraid, I have no answer to.

My take on it is......it is OUR country now......Indians and the rest of us intruders. It is what it is.

Once the borders were established in current terms.....they should have been sealed off......and under current laws.....throw the bums out.

They have no more right to come into this country illegally and live here with impunity.......(no, MORE than impunity....the bitches have benefits too) than I do to roam around Mexico without proper papers.

How long do ya think any of us would get around Mexican laws by saying.....
'Geez, I am a Gringo......I just want to be in Mexico 'cuz I like it here.....'

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Get offa my lawn..........

I thought this would be a thread about garden gnomes.

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me@rescam.org

The problem with illegal immigration goes beyond the immigrants themselves. If you blame the immigrants, then you haven't looked at the big picture.

Immigrants (mostly Mexican) come here because of the situation where they live. This is directly due to the Mexican government's failures and corruption and lack of obligation to their people. As their biggest trading partner, the US is in a strong position to use leverage against Mexico to correct issues within their country.

If you want to hate illegals because it's easy, more power to you. If you want real solution to the immigration problem, it starts with us putting pressure on our government to put pressure upon the Mexican government to reform their system. Or, you can just hate illegals and have no solution as they continue to pour in.

The problem with illegal immigration goes beyond the immigrants themselves. If you blame the immigrants, then you haven't looked at the big picture.

Immigrants (mostly Mexican) come here because of the situation where they live. This is directly due to the Mexican government's failures and corruption and lack of obligation to their people. As their biggest trading partner, the US is in a strong position to use leverage against Mexico to correct issues within their country.

If you want to hate illegals because it's easy, more power to you. If you want real solution to the immigration problem, it starts with us putting pressure on our government to put pressure upon the Mexican government to reform their system. Or, you can just hate illegals and have no solution as they continue to pour in.

I have stated before....and make sure you understand this....I do not hate illegals as the people that they are. I have no problem with people of any nationality as long as they enter this country legally.

What I do hate is the fact that they are here illegally, and yet are treated with kid gloves by our government and given benefits which the rest of us legal residents are forced to pay for with our tax dollars. For which they have not contributed one cent.

So yes....I do blame our government as well, both for not properly enforcing our borders, and for some of their policies regarding the illegals.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

I do not hate illegals as the people that they are. I have no problem with people of any nationality as long as they enter this country legally.

First of all, if you're going teach a lesson of hate, you must at very least be consistent. That you "do not hate illegals" as long as "they enter this country legally" spells out flaw and obvious dogma in your programme that would be laughed out of any serious debate (and this is not a serious debate as your remarks are silly, unresearched, and honestly not very well thought out).

So yes....I do blame our government as well, both for not properly enforcing our borders, and for some of their policies regarding the illegals.

But you do not blame your government in a way that can offer solution to the problem. It's clear that you want to hate the situation, but have no desire whatsoever to see resolution to it.

You should hate your government for not pressuring those that send their people here, and then you may find a way to advocate that issue. Just hating them for not enforcing the immigration laws perhaps fuels just that which you're into; having a reason to be mad. You have to realize that immigration laws first do not correct the problem; your hate is misdirected.
But I sense that you either want to find a way to correct this problem, or you want to find something to be pissed off about; the latter of which I don't consider a very important or serious part of societal maintenance or justice.

I have to say, I'm worried about illegal immigration as well, and I find your argument self serving, hateful, and ignorant. Looking at the illegals as an issue is like a doctor prescribing medication for nausea when liver cancer is going to kill the patient.

I'm sorry, but you're a little narrow-sighted.

I do not hate illegals as the people that they are. I have no problem with people of any nationality as long as they enter this country legally.

First of all, if you're going teach a lesson of hate, you must at very least be consistent. That you "do not hate illegals" as long as "they enter this country legally" spells out flaw and obvious dogma in your programme that would be laughed out of any serious debate (and this is not a serious debate as your remarks are silly, unresearched, and honestly not very well thought out).

So yes....I do blame our government as well, both for not properly enforcing our borders, and for some of their policies regarding the illegals.

But you do not blame your government in a way that can offer solution to the problem. It's clear that you want to hate the situation, but have no desire whatsoever to see resolution to it.

You should hate your government for not pressuring those that send their people here, and then you may find a way to advocate that issue. Just hating them for not enforcing the immigration laws perhaps fuels just that which you're into; having a reason to be mad. You have to realize that immigration laws first do not correct the problem; your hate is misdirected.
But I sense that you either want to find a way to correct this problem, or you want to find something to be pissed off about; the latter of which I don't consider a very important or serious part of societal maintenance or justice.

I have to say, I'm worried about illegal immigration as well, and I find your argument self serving, hateful, and ignorant. Looking at the illegals as an issue is like a doctor prescribing medication for nausea when liver cancer is going to kill the patient.

I'm sorry, but you're a little narrow-sighted.

I may be a little narrow-minded...
But you seem to be spending more time smearing my semantics than discussing the issue.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

I do agree that something has to be done about illegal immigrants. Some things like the Universal health care bill which keeps them away from any gov't paid insurance is one. cracking down on companies and individuals that hire illegals is another. improving conditions in their home country is another. I do get tired of seeing neighborhoods that look like they've come out of a 3rd world neighborhood and cities do nothing to enforce code violations etc. An FYI. most immigrants, legal and illegal, do not migrate to the Hamptons. Generally, they head to the cheapest available place they can find. My brother rented a 1 bedroom next door to a "family" living in a 1 bedroom. He counted at least 15 people that "lived" out of this apt. THat being what it is.
I think the best ways to decrease illegals is as I stated before to improve things in their home countries. also assisting Mexico with its drug war will decrease the need for individuals to cross that border.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

I don't post to this section often but I could not let this pass the reason that so many people from South and Central America try to get in to the US is to try and better their lives the same as any other Immigrant legal or other wise,and as for the drug war in Mexico perhaps a better control of who gets to purchase weapons and who sells them would be a welcome start as most of them are sourced from the US.If this is too painful for the gun lobby Though.

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Old enough to know better(but)still young enough not to care

Wrong. I'm discussing the issue. Hating on the immigrants that come over here is not a solution to the problem. If you don't want a solution and just want to meet others that share your disdain for the foreigners then excuse my intrusion into your pity party.


WARNING! GRAN TORINO MOVIE SPOILER!

As for your link, did you even watch the movie? He ends up giving his life, on purpose, for the Asians.

END SPOILER

I went back and read my older post, and it did seem that I was a bit harsh. But then again, your entire argument seems to be hate based. You lead your argument posting to a profane video with someone pointing a gun in a group of peoples' face and dropping the f-bomb left and right. The solution you offer is "get off my lawn", and when asked about what brought it up, you said it doesn't matter... you were just brought up that way.

Seems to me that this is more about wanting to hate groups of people than a real attempt at a discussion of the immigration issue.

Having said that, you and I agree about the issue of immigration, and I think you'll agree with me in that we need to do something about it. I do not take the approach of hating immigrants because 1. it's not going to fix the problem and 2. it raises the issue and makes people wonder if this is really about a way to express hate and immigrants are just a median by which to express that hate.

I don't think our views are really all that far apart......

I thought I tried to express my point when I stated that "I don't hate illegals as the people that they are".
Meaning, I don't hate them as human beings or because most of them happen to be Mexican.

I guess a better way to express it might be to say that I hate what they represent......a very real problem for this country, with many contributing factors, and very little action by our government to correct it.

So sometimes I take the simplistic approach and just say "Get offa my lawn".

I am the son of the son of German immigrants.....my father's parents came here directly from Germany. Through all the legal channels. As I said, I have no problem with people of any nationality as long as they are not wandering around this country without a coupon.

And yes, I did watch the movie. And in fact, I'm not sure that it really raised the question of whether the Hmong were here legally or not...it was more about the perception of who they are as a people, and Clint's struggle with it. And he came to see that, like any other nationality...there are both good and bad among them.
But the clip expressed my angst at the time. It was a little out of context.

Another good film that expresses the painful human side of the whole issue is 'Crossing Over'....

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

My grandparents were German immigrants as well, on both sides. Actually, they weren't immigrating so much as fleeing Nazi Germany.

I think the biggest problem with have with immigration is that people can immigrate here illegally and support themselves better than in their own countries. Couple that with the fact that once they're established here, there is usually no action taken against them, and it makes sense to come here by any means possible.

Legal immigration is also a problem. For example, a friend of mine met a Peruvian girl online and flew down to Lima to pick her up. She did have a passport, and then they went through the legal channels by contacting INS, to willfully comply with the legal proceedings to bring her in. They were not married.

Their visit to the INS was laughable. Once they had an appointment set up, they went in, spoke with someone, told them the situation, and were basically told, "she's staying with you? ok, no problem". They didn't sign a single document, nor did the INS explore the issue any further. She's been here for four years now and holds a job. Talk about slipping through the cracks.

Here's what I propose for helping to reduce illegal immigration;

1. Determine the origin of the majority of immigrants and put pressure on those countries to fix conditions there through trade restrictions or support (whichever would seem to work better depending upon the country in question).

2. Do not allow people here illegally to prosper. Crack down on illegal hiring practices, do not offer public support such as medicaid, food stamps, TANF, or anything else to people here illegally.

3. Demand that people entering the US provide legal eligibility to enter. I can't tell you how many times I've come back from Mexico and see hundreds of cars full of people, in Mexican cars with Mexican plates, just being waved through.

4. Encourage legal immigration as an alternative, with clear instructions issued in the countries of origin how one goes about legal immigration. Many people come here illegally because they have no clue as to how the legal process works, where to go, who to talk to, etc.

5. Enforce strict requirements for legal immigration, including having a job. Go a step further and offer job placement assistance. If people come here legally and find work, this helps stimulate the economy and generate tax revenue. People here illegally typically do not pay taxes and bleed our systems without contributing to them.

6. Deny and/or deport people that have applied for legal status but fail to meet the requirements. Do not allow people that have failed to obtain legal status continue to remain here as is currently being done.

7. Go beyond cracking down on hiring illegals; go after credit card companies, electric companies, apartment complexes; any business that enters into a contract and does business with people here illegally. Impose heavy fines to support the enforcement aspect of the program.

Other than that, I cannot expect to grow 1,000 acres of crops next to a town with people starving to death and expect people not to come over. A wall is not going to stop them. If they get hungry enough, bullets won't either. East/West Germany proves this concept.

I think the only thing we can really do is make it near impossible for people to thrive here, and creating a scenario where living in their own country is just as, or more viable than living here.

By the way, Gran Torino was an awesome movie. And hey, I apologize for being hot-headed over the issue and assuming so much.

No worries mate....apology accepted. I thought Gran Torino was a great flick too.

And I agree with your thoughts about changing things. Some excellent points.

The problem is getting the politicians to get off of their butts and make the hard choices, as there's no money in it for them.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster