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Author | Message |
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Scary Capitalist Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0 |
Rush, just 'shrug'. The misanthropes and other people...especially the Twit are beneath you and me. They're not worth it. Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! |
Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59 |
Well, Rush, this too should fall under your "Why? Becuz u sez so?" mantra. Provide evidence of it. The numbers provided here back up everything I've stated about the corporate assault on unionized working people since WWII |
Scary Capitalist Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0 |
Well, Rush, this too should fall under your "Why? Becuz u sez so?" mantra. Provide evidence of it. Stop polluting my thread with your pro union Crap, Robert. This is a philosophically oriented thread. ps You're totally wrong anyway. Why not just unionize EVERYBODY? Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! |
Jeffrey Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
They're not worth it. That's the spirit! [rolls eyes]... ;) It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . . |
Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59 |
OK lets unite...How about a hug? Oh, and get that ego under control. PS: the first mention of unions came from your buddy Rush. |
Dave H Send message Joined: 16 Nov 07 Posts: 45 Credit: 2,650 RAC: 0 |
You cannot be taken advantage of if you do not allow it. You all have the ability to tell your employers to sod off if/when they attempt to "take advantage of you". It's your choice who you work for, as it is also your choice to stay employed there. You don't need a union to hold your hand, you just need to make better decisions. Take responsibility, or take orders! Never argue with idiots, they'll always drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. |
Jeffrey Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
You cannot be taken advantage of if you do not allow it. [snip] you just need to make better decisions. And it darn well better be the 'right' decision! Otherwise, you'll find yourself on an industry wide 'blacklist'... ;) (Funny how that works.) It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . . |
AC Send message Joined: 22 Jan 05 Posts: 3413 Credit: 119,579 RAC: 0 |
You cannot be taken advantage of if you do not allow it. [snip] you just need to make better decisions. For people in the cocaine industry it's probly much worse. |
Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59 |
Don't you think, for the sake of your children and the bank holding your mortgage, that's it's just simpler to unionize rather than be unemployed? It removes the need to tell the employer to "Sod off". |
Fuzzy Hollynoodles Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 9659 Credit: 251,998 RAC: 0 |
You cannot be taken advantage of if you do not allow it. [snip] you just need to make better decisions. Has that happened a lot to you, Jeffrey? "I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me |
Fuzzy Hollynoodles Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 9659 Credit: 251,998 RAC: 0 |
If someone has the habit of telling their employer to "Sod off", then that person more needs an unemployment insurance rather than a membership of a union, because that will be needed a lot! Some people even unions can't keep employed. "I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me |
Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59 |
Not to put words in Dave H's mouth but I assumed he simply meant that you should quit your job if the employer tries to take advantage of you. Kind of a shame if you enjoy your workplace and co-workers, but it seems to be the only alternative in the minds of anti-unionists. I think I like my way better. Less turmoil in the long run and having a steady job is good for the credit rating. |
Jeffrey Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
Has that happened a lot to you, Jeffrey? Yep, everywhere that I've ever worked... They always expect five times more out of me than they do from the other fruit loops they've got working for them, who of course, do everything in their power to make me look bad and make themselves look better (Just like they do here)... And before you blame me ask yourself this, why do employers get so uptight when employees like me ask for a 'detailed job description'... Kinda leaves the door wide open, eh? Just the way they like it... The way I see it, I have two choices, do the extra work and have no life or walk out and get banned from life... Either way I lose, but at least my way makes them lose too... Geez, I just realized that I could write a whole book on this subject... ;) (I'm far from lazy, but I'll die of starvation before I die a slave to the 'special' people.) It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . . |
Dave H Send message Joined: 16 Nov 07 Posts: 45 Credit: 2,650 RAC: 0 |
My mortgage is 2 years old and will be paid fully in 2 more. I'm self employed and can happily tell anyone to sod off without needing a union to do it for me. I made the right decisions (for my life, they may not be for yours). Take responsibility, or take orders! Never argue with idiots, they'll always drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. |
Jeffrey Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
I'm self employed and can happily tell anyone to sod off without needing a union to do it for me. All that tells 'me' is either: A. Your daddy helped you in some way shape or form... (Nothing wrong with that, it's his duty.) B. You've sold your soul in exchange for a leisurely lifestyle... (Sorry to hear that.) 'Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.' I made the right decisions (for my life, they may not be for yours). We all have our standards to live by... ;) It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . . |
Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59 |
OK...Now we're getting somewhere, You are self employed and have the power to create your own working standards and conditions. Based on that, you don't need a union. Let's assume that everyone who isn't self employed would like a say in working standards and conditions. What would be the best way for them to achieve this goal? Should they approach their employer individually with many points of view or should they get together to create a system that works for everyone before they present a plan to their employer? |
Jeffrey Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
Should they approach their employer individually Not unless they're seeking to get canned... Believe me, I know... ;) (Nowadays, I just skip all the unnecessary drama and simply say, 'goodbye'.) It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . . |
Dave H Send message Joined: 16 Nov 07 Posts: 45 Credit: 2,650 RAC: 0 |
I'm self employed and can happily tell anyone to sod off without needing a union to do it for me. You are quite wrong there Jeffery. C. I studied hard, worked my buns off and achieved success off my own efforts. (retired at 24). Made HUGE mistakes and lost the plot for awhile (bankrupt at 28). pulled myself together and achieved success again from my own efforts (in tandem with my wife). So now at 33 life is good. No Rich daddy and no soul selling i'm afraid. I can't help but notice that alot of the replies to my original post have shown that the prevalent emotion when making your decisions is fear. Fear of bank/mortgage, fear of credit rating, fear of job stability, fear of black-listing etc. Making your decisions with the prevalent emotion being desire is much more empowering and conducive to contentment. Take responsibility, or take orders! Never argue with idiots, they'll always drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. |
Robert Waite Send message Joined: 23 Oct 07 Posts: 2417 Credit: 18,192,122 RAC: 59 |
You appear to be reading much more into what has been said. I was asking how the working people should approach the employer about changes to conditions and standards in the workplace. Individually or collectively? To suggest telling the boss to "Sod off" then bring up fear fo job stability, mortgages and credit ratings seems quite a leap in logic to me. If one is going to follow your original "Sod off" advice, all those other items go out the window. You lose them. |
Dave H Send message Joined: 16 Nov 07 Posts: 45 Credit: 2,650 RAC: 0 |
Has that happened a lot to you, Jeffrey? Have you ever read Freud or Jung? Every job you have the same thing happens...although its not you off course, it's them... Self fulfilling prophecies my friend. OK...Now we're getting somewhere, You are self employed and have the power to create your own working standards and conditions. Based on that, you don't need a union. Let's assume that everyone who isn't self employed would like a say in working standards and conditions. What would be the best way for them to achieve this goal? I understand your point Robert, and why you make it. My view is simply that if people wish to have an employer (which I admit I find baffling), then it would seem common sense to me to choose one that was a good fit for you personally. ie, not the type who make you need to worry about being screwed over, job security etc. My point is simply that everyone chooses how they live their lives and that 99% of your life today is a direct result of the decisions you choose to make in the past. Likewise, your life in the future comes from the decisions you make today and going forward. Take responsibility, or take orders! Never argue with idiots, they'll always drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. |
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