Egoism---an alternative

Message boards : Politics : Egoism---an alternative
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 . . . 12 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile Scary Capitalist
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 May 01
Posts: 7404
Credit: 97,085
RAC: 0
United States
Message 679643 - Posted: 17 Nov 2007, 21:05:46 UTC

Rush, just 'shrug'.

The misanthropes and other people...especially the Twit are beneath you and me. They're not worth it.
Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

ID: 679643 · Report as offensive
Profile Robert Waite
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 23 Oct 07
Posts: 2417
Credit: 18,192,122
RAC: 59
Canada
Message 679685 - Posted: 17 Nov 2007, 21:40:19 UTC - in response to Message 676486.  

Well, Rush, this too should fall under your "Why? Becuz u sez so?" mantra. Provide evidence of it.

From the first hit on Google under "union membership decline," About.com cites the U.S. Department of Labor:

"The changing conditions of the 1980s and 1990s undermined the position of organized labor, which now represented a shrinking share of the work force. While more than one-third of employed people belonged to unions in 1945, union membership fell to 24.1 percent of the U.S. work force in 1979 and to 13.9 percent in 1998."

My numbers were close enough. You can do the rest of the research yourself.


The numbers provided here back up everything I've stated about the corporate assault on unionized working people since WWII
ID: 679685 · Report as offensive
Profile Scary Capitalist
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 May 01
Posts: 7404
Credit: 97,085
RAC: 0
United States
Message 679886 - Posted: 18 Nov 2007, 0:57:16 UTC - in response to Message 679685.  

Well, Rush, this too should fall under your "Why? Becuz u sez so?" mantra. Provide evidence of it.

From the first hit on Google under "union membership decline," About.com cites the U.S. Department of Labor:

"The changing conditions of the 1980s and 1990s undermined the position of organized labor, which now represented a shrinking share of the work force. While more than one-third of employed people belonged to unions in 1945, union membership fell to 24.1 percent of the U.S. work force in 1979 and to 13.9 percent in 1998."

My numbers were close enough. You can do the rest of the research yourself.


The numbers provided here back up everything I've stated about the corporate assault on unionized working people since WWII



Stop polluting my thread with your pro union Crap, Robert. This is a philosophically oriented thread.

ps You're totally wrong anyway. Why not just unionize EVERYBODY?
Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

ID: 679886 · Report as offensive
Profile Jeffrey
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Nov 03
Posts: 4793
Credit: 26,029
RAC: 0
Message 679913 - Posted: 18 Nov 2007, 1:17:11 UTC - in response to Message 679643.  

They're not worth it.

That's the spirit! [rolls eyes]... ;)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
ID: 679913 · Report as offensive
Profile Robert Waite
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 23 Oct 07
Posts: 2417
Credit: 18,192,122
RAC: 59
Canada
Message 680000 - Posted: 18 Nov 2007, 2:48:40 UTC

OK lets unite...How about a hug?

Oh, and get that ego under control.

PS: the first mention of unions came from your buddy Rush.
ID: 680000 · Report as offensive
Dave H

Send message
Joined: 16 Nov 07
Posts: 45
Credit: 2,650
RAC: 0
Australia
Message 680001 - Posted: 18 Nov 2007, 2:49:42 UTC - in response to Message 676159.  


Thank goodness for unions. I wouldn't dare not be in one. Employers can really take advantage of those people who aren't in a union.


You cannot be taken advantage of if you do not allow it.
You all have the ability to tell your employers to sod off if/when they attempt to "take advantage of you". It's your choice who you work for, as it is also your choice to stay employed there. You don't need a union to hold your hand, you just need to make better decisions.

Take responsibility, or take orders!

Never argue with idiots, they'll always drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
ID: 680001 · Report as offensive
Profile Jeffrey
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Nov 03
Posts: 4793
Credit: 26,029
RAC: 0
Message 680023 - Posted: 18 Nov 2007, 3:28:28 UTC - in response to Message 680001.  

You cannot be taken advantage of if you do not allow it. [snip] you just need to make better decisions.

And it darn well better be the 'right' decision! Otherwise, you'll find yourself on an industry wide 'blacklist'... ;)

(Funny how that works.)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
ID: 680023 · Report as offensive
AC
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 22 Jan 05
Posts: 3413
Credit: 119,579
RAC: 0
United States
Message 680025 - Posted: 18 Nov 2007, 3:34:13 UTC - in response to Message 680023.  

You cannot be taken advantage of if you do not allow it. [snip] you just need to make better decisions.

And it darn well better be the 'right' decision! Otherwise, you'll find yourself on an industry wide 'blacklist'... ;)

(Funny how that works.)


For people in the cocaine industry it's probly much worse.

ID: 680025 · Report as offensive
Profile Robert Waite
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 23 Oct 07
Posts: 2417
Credit: 18,192,122
RAC: 59
Canada
Message 680044 - Posted: 18 Nov 2007, 4:55:11 UTC - in response to Message 680001.  


You cannot be taken advantage of if you do not allow it.
You all have the ability to tell your employers to sod off if/when they attempt to "take advantage of you". It's your choice who you work for, as it is also your choice to stay employed there. You don't need a union to hold your hand, you just need to make better decisions.


Don't you think, for the sake of your children and the bank holding your mortgage, that's it's just simpler to unionize rather than be unemployed?
It removes the need to tell the employer to "Sod off".


ID: 680044 · Report as offensive
Profile Fuzzy Hollynoodles
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 9659
Credit: 251,998
RAC: 0
Message 680061 - Posted: 18 Nov 2007, 5:50:59 UTC - in response to Message 680023.  

You cannot be taken advantage of if you do not allow it. [snip] you just need to make better decisions.

And it darn well better be the 'right' decision! Otherwise, you'll find yourself on an industry wide 'blacklist'... ;)

(Funny how that works.)


Has that happened a lot to you, Jeffrey?



"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

ID: 680061 · Report as offensive
Profile Fuzzy Hollynoodles
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 9659
Credit: 251,998
RAC: 0
Message 680066 - Posted: 18 Nov 2007, 5:55:40 UTC - in response to Message 680044.  


You cannot be taken advantage of if you do not allow it.
You all have the ability to tell your employers to sod off if/when they attempt to "take advantage of you". It's your choice who you work for, as it is also your choice to stay employed there. You don't need a union to hold your hand, you just need to make better decisions.


Don't you think, for the sake of your children and the bank holding your mortgage, that's it's just simpler to unionize rather than be unemployed?
It removes the need to tell the employer to "Sod off".




If someone has the habit of telling their employer to "Sod off", then that person more needs an unemployment insurance rather than a membership of a union, because that will be needed a lot! Some people even unions can't keep employed.


"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

ID: 680066 · Report as offensive
Profile Robert Waite
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 23 Oct 07
Posts: 2417
Credit: 18,192,122
RAC: 59
Canada
Message 680074 - Posted: 18 Nov 2007, 6:07:36 UTC

Not to put words in Dave H's mouth but I assumed he simply meant that you should quit your job if the employer tries to take advantage of you.

Kind of a shame if you enjoy your workplace and co-workers, but it seems to be the only alternative in the minds of anti-unionists.

I think I like my way better. Less turmoil in the long run and having a steady job is good for the credit rating.
ID: 680074 · Report as offensive
Profile Jeffrey
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Nov 03
Posts: 4793
Credit: 26,029
RAC: 0
Message 680092 - Posted: 18 Nov 2007, 8:00:48 UTC - in response to Message 680061.  

Has that happened a lot to you, Jeffrey?

Yep, everywhere that I've ever worked... They always expect five times more out of me than they do from the other fruit loops they've got working for them, who of course, do everything in their power to make me look bad and make themselves look better (Just like they do here)... And before you blame me ask yourself this, why do employers get so uptight when employees like me ask for a 'detailed job description'... Kinda leaves the door wide open, eh? Just the way they like it... The way I see it, I have two choices, do the extra work and have no life or walk out and get banned from life... Either way I lose, but at least my way makes them lose too... Geez, I just realized that I could write a whole book on this subject... ;)

(I'm far from lazy, but I'll die of starvation before I die a slave to the 'special' people.)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
ID: 680092 · Report as offensive
Dave H

Send message
Joined: 16 Nov 07
Posts: 45
Credit: 2,650
RAC: 0
Australia
Message 680176 - Posted: 18 Nov 2007, 11:34:55 UTC - in response to Message 680044.  


You cannot be taken advantage of if you do not allow it.
You all have the ability to tell your employers to sod off if/when they attempt to "take advantage of you". It's your choice who you work for, as it is also your choice to stay employed there. You don't need a union to hold your hand, you just need to make better decisions.


Don't you think, for the sake of your children and the bank holding your mortgage, that's it's just simpler to unionize rather than be unemployed?
It removes the need to tell the employer to "Sod off".



My mortgage is 2 years old and will be paid fully in 2 more. I'm self employed and can happily tell anyone to sod off without needing a union to do it for me. I made the right decisions (for my life, they may not be for yours).

Take responsibility, or take orders!

Never argue with idiots, they'll always drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
ID: 680176 · Report as offensive
Profile Jeffrey
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Nov 03
Posts: 4793
Credit: 26,029
RAC: 0
Message 680534 - Posted: 18 Nov 2007, 18:59:52 UTC - in response to Message 680176.  

I'm self employed and can happily tell anyone to sod off without needing a union to do it for me.

All that tells 'me' is either:
A. Your daddy helped you in some way shape or form... (Nothing wrong with that, it's his duty.)
B. You've sold your soul in exchange for a leisurely lifestyle... (Sorry to hear that.)

'Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.'

I made the right decisions (for my life, they may not be for yours).

We all have our standards to live by... ;)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
ID: 680534 · Report as offensive
Profile Robert Waite
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 23 Oct 07
Posts: 2417
Credit: 18,192,122
RAC: 59
Canada
Message 680649 - Posted: 18 Nov 2007, 22:15:08 UTC - in response to Message 680176.  
Last modified: 18 Nov 2007, 22:16:22 UTC


My mortgage is 2 years old and will be paid fully in 2 more. I'm self employed and can happily tell anyone to sod off without needing a union to do it for me. I made the right decisions (for my life, they may not be for yours).


OK...Now we're getting somewhere,
You are self employed and have the power to create your own working standards and conditions.
Based on that, you don't need a union.

Let's assume that everyone who isn't self employed would like a say in working standards and conditions.
What would be the best way for them to achieve this goal?

Should they approach their employer individually with many points of view or should they get together to create a system that works for everyone before they present a plan to their employer?




ID: 680649 · Report as offensive
Profile Jeffrey
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Nov 03
Posts: 4793
Credit: 26,029
RAC: 0
Message 680697 - Posted: 18 Nov 2007, 23:30:47 UTC - in response to Message 680649.  
Last modified: 18 Nov 2007, 23:31:38 UTC

Should they approach their employer individually

Not unless they're seeking to get canned... Believe me, I know... ;)

(Nowadays, I just skip all the unnecessary drama and simply say, 'goodbye'.)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
ID: 680697 · Report as offensive
Dave H

Send message
Joined: 16 Nov 07
Posts: 45
Credit: 2,650
RAC: 0
Australia
Message 680827 - Posted: 19 Nov 2007, 1:25:48 UTC - in response to Message 680534.  
Last modified: 19 Nov 2007, 1:26:26 UTC

I'm self employed and can happily tell anyone to sod off without needing a union to do it for me.

All that tells 'me' is either:
A. Your daddy helped you in some way shape or form... (Nothing wrong with that, it's his duty.)
B. You've sold your soul in exchange for a leisurely lifestyle... (Sorry to hear that.)



You are quite wrong there Jeffery.
C. I studied hard, worked my buns off and achieved success off my own efforts. (retired at 24). Made HUGE mistakes and lost the plot for awhile (bankrupt at 28). pulled myself together and achieved success again from my own efforts (in tandem with my wife). So now at 33 life is good. No Rich daddy and no soul selling i'm afraid.

I can't help but notice that alot of the replies to my original post have shown that the prevalent emotion when making your decisions is fear. Fear of bank/mortgage, fear of credit rating, fear of job stability, fear of black-listing etc.

Making your decisions with the prevalent emotion being desire is much more empowering and conducive to contentment.

Take responsibility, or take orders!

Never argue with idiots, they'll always drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
ID: 680827 · Report as offensive
Profile Robert Waite
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 23 Oct 07
Posts: 2417
Credit: 18,192,122
RAC: 59
Canada
Message 680835 - Posted: 19 Nov 2007, 1:37:13 UTC - in response to Message 680827.  


I can't help but notice that alot of the replies to my original post have shown that the prevalent emotion when making your decisions is fear. Fear of bank/mortgage, fear of credit rating, fear of job stability, fear of black-listing etc.

Making your decisions with the prevalent emotion being desire is much more empowering and conducive to contentment.


You appear to be reading much more into what has been said.

I was asking how the working people should approach the employer about changes to conditions and standards in the workplace.
Individually or collectively?

To suggest telling the boss to "Sod off" then bring up fear fo job stability, mortgages and credit ratings seems quite a leap in logic to me.
If one is going to follow your original "Sod off" advice, all those other items go out the window. You lose them.





ID: 680835 · Report as offensive
Dave H

Send message
Joined: 16 Nov 07
Posts: 45
Credit: 2,650
RAC: 0
Australia
Message 680837 - Posted: 19 Nov 2007, 1:40:11 UTC - in response to Message 680092.  

Has that happened a lot to you, Jeffrey?

Yep, everywhere that I've ever worked...


Have you ever read Freud or Jung?
Every job you have the same thing happens...although its not you off course, it's them...
Self fulfilling prophecies my friend.


OK...Now we're getting somewhere,
You are self employed and have the power to create your own working standards and conditions.
Based on that, you don't need a union.

Let's assume that everyone who isn't self employed would like a say in working standards and conditions.
What would be the best way for them to achieve this goal?

I understand your point Robert, and why you make it. My view is simply that if people wish to have an employer (which I admit I find baffling), then it would seem common sense to me to choose one that was a good fit for you personally. ie, not the type who make you need to worry about being screwed over, job security etc.

My point is simply that everyone chooses how they live their lives and that 99% of your life today is a direct result of the decisions you choose to make in the past. Likewise, your life in the future comes from the decisions you make today and going forward.
Take responsibility, or take orders!

Never argue with idiots, they'll always drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
ID: 680837 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 . . . 12 · Next

Message boards : Politics : Egoism---an alternative


 
©2024 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.