PC advice, how to build one up from scrap i have

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Message 442674 - Posted: 23 Oct 2006, 22:20:27 UTC - in response to Message 442613.  

I was referring the 1.4Ghz Tualitin that you mentioned. In my benchmark comparisons a 1.4Ghz Tualitin is roughly equal to a 2.8Ghz P4. Remember the Core 2 and the Pentium M architecture comes from the Tualitin. It is possible to make this upgrade with a Powerleap upgrade. That lets you run it in a slot 1 system. That is what I have in my slot 1 system. Yes, the fastest standard slot 1 chip from Intel was the 1Ghz but you can go to 1.4 Ghz with the Powerleap upgrade.


Ah yes, the Powerleap upgrade. That technically uses a Socket 370 to Slot 1 Adapter, which means it's still a Socket 370 chip. ;) I know the P-M and the Core 2 come from the Tualatin core, but I don't really think they're up to, or as fast as a P4 at twice the speed. The only reason why the Core 2 can do that is because of the increase in Instructions Per Cycle from Tualatin's 3 to 4, and the shared L2 cache helps out tremendously. The Tualatin P3 1.4GHz should be about as fast as a P4 2GHz while the Celeron Tualatin 1.4GHz should be about as fast as a P4 1.8 or 1.9GHz.

But enough thread hijacking - Sammie's looking for help! ;)


But enough thread hijacking - Sammie's looking for help! ;)
i dont mind, i like to read it and maybe learn something.
:)

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Message 442613 - Posted: 23 Oct 2006, 20:11:47 UTC - in response to Message 442508.  

I was referring the 1.4Ghz Tualitin that you mentioned. In my benchmark comparisons a 1.4Ghz Tualitin is roughly equal to a 2.8Ghz P4. Remember the Core 2 and the Pentium M architecture comes from the Tualitin. It is possible to make this upgrade with a Powerleap upgrade. That lets you run it in a slot 1 system. That is what I have in my slot 1 system. Yes, the fastest standard slot 1 chip from Intel was the 1Ghz but you can go to 1.4 Ghz with the Powerleap upgrade.


Ah yes, the Powerleap upgrade. That technically uses a Socket 370 to Slot 1 Adapter, which means it's still a Socket 370 chip. ;) I know the P-M and the Core 2 come from the Tualatin core, but I don't really think they're up to, or as fast as a P4 at twice the speed. The only reason why the Core 2 can do that is because of the increase in Instructions Per Cycle from Tualatin's 3 to 4, and the shared L2 cache helps out tremendously. The Tualatin P3 1.4GHz should be about as fast as a P4 2GHz while the Celeron Tualatin 1.4GHz should be about as fast as a P4 1.8 or 1.9GHz.

But enough thread hijacking - Sammie's looking for help! ;)
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Message 442508 - Posted: 23 Oct 2006, 15:45:50 UTC - in response to Message 441494.  
Last modified: 23 Oct 2006, 15:52:49 UTC

You might be able to upgrade the slot 1 to a 1.4ghz Celeron. That is wat I have running in one of my old slot 1 systems. The 1.4 Ghz Celereon which is based on the P3 architecture, is equal to about a 2.8Gh P4.


Certain 1.1GHz Celeron's and higher were based upon the Tualatin P3 core, which required specific chipset support. Being that the Tualatin was released around the same time as the P4s and Intel was already getting to release their updated Socket 478 P4s, hardly any P3 boards supported the Tualatin core, but there's still a change.

I only state the above because the chance is slim, so I wouldn't get my hopes up. By the way, the Celeron 1.4GHz wasn't as fast as a P4 2.8GHz, that was the P3 Tualatin 1.4GHz. The Celeron 1.4GHz was about as fast as a P4 1.9GHz. And there was not Slot 1 1.4GHz CPUs released. The fastest Slot 1 was the Pentium III 1GHz chip (the 1.1GHz was recalled). The Socket 370 chips, and certain ones only, was able to push that to 1.4GHz.


I was referring the 1.4Ghz Tualitin that you mentioned. In my benchmark comparisons a 1.4Ghz Tualitin is roughly equal to a 2.8Ghz P4. Remember the Core 2 and the Pentium M architecture comes from the Tualitin. It is possible to make this upgrade with a Powerleap upgrade. That lets you run it in a slot 1 system. That is what I have in my slot 1 system. Yes, the fastest standard slot 1 chip from Intel was the 1Ghz but you can go to 1.4 Ghz with the Powerleap upgrade.
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Message 442399 - Posted: 23 Oct 2006, 9:06:07 UTC - in response to Message 442356.  

ok the old guy has win98 not 98se, and my pc has xp home


Hi,
Great! Real easy then. On XP PC, go into net connections, hold down CTL as you left click both nics. With both highlighted, right click and choose 'Bridge'. Thats it. (Sorry being short, I'm on my PSP.)

(Can someone follow him up on remote_hosts.cfg)
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Message 442356 - Posted: 23 Oct 2006, 3:37:51 UTC
Last modified: 23 Oct 2006, 3:53:47 UTC

ok the old guy has win98 not 98se, and my pc has xp home, i have FTP problems with my pc so i dont want to put xp sp2 on the old guy as i would like to test it for speed with the FTP to my server, that would give me an idea if the FTP issue is my OS or not.

the FTP issue i have is only on the upload speed, i can send a zipped file 40mb in 2 -3 minutes, but a 40mb folder unzipped takes 4-6 hours. it starts off fast but when it gets to small files, or after about 1mb it hits a brick wall and slows to less than 56k modem speeds. i can send at 500KB/s i have a 12MBit connection.

i dont want to go and spend a lot of money just to crunch numbers for seti, i either do it with what i have or dont. it's thats simple, i can toss the old pc's out for all i care, i just thought if i have them and they can be used for seti, then give it a try.

pc A xp home, 2 NIC cards cable modem in one, the other free,
pc B win98 1 NIC card, can change the OS to win98se or winME

sammie x
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Message 442277 - Posted: 23 Oct 2006, 0:16:54 UTC

I have an older computer my wife uses to play her old win95 and DOS based games on. A Celeron 1.4 Tualitin, 512 MB Kingmax on a SOYO mobo running win98se. It's not running BOINC and it doesn't have an internet connection.
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Message 442037 - Posted: 22 Oct 2006, 21:03:42 UTC

Here's my 2 cents worth: I use one 4-port KVM, a 16 port network hub, and RealVNC to run 7 boxes using one monitor, keyboard, and mouse. The only reason I still use the KVM is that on the old quad PIII Xeons you have to enter ctrl-alt-del before you can enter your password. (I keep all the 'puters locked to keep the riff-raff out, ie the kids) As long as the nic comes on line and you can enter your password using RealVNC there's no need for the KVM.

At one time we had 25 'puters online running a mix of 98SE, Win2k Pro, and Win2k Server. Had several KVMs daisy chained together, same for the network hubs. Switched to VNC and removed all but the one KVM. Never had any problems booting as long as there is a video card installed in each box.
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Message 441986 - Posted: 22 Oct 2006, 19:26:51 UTC - in response to Message 441626.  
Last modified: 22 Oct 2006, 20:00:52 UTC


last but not least, step by step, idiot proof none tech talk me through linking both pc's and getting seti to run on the other one please, i know this will be a hard task for some of you, (keeping to none tech words, for me) but i have a better understanding of terms like, "the square plug" not like "the eaa365s plug" dont go looking to see what that plug is, i made it up lol and i know that "boot it" dont mean "give it a kick" but having said that, my monitor has only been dropped twice, and i backed over it once with my car, and when it wouldnt work i kicked it and fixed it. see i am tech savy at times. pmsl

i would really like yout help, and any links to anything that might help would be more than welcome.
thanx
sammie xXx


Hi,

Without knowing your internet source and OS's, it will be difficult for anyone to give you a step-by-step guide.

If I'm interpreting your post correctly;

You have two PC's (PC "A", PC "B").

PC "A" has your internet connection, which you want to share with PC "B" using a crossover cable.

PC "B" is running Win98 "Plus". (Is this Win98SE?)

What OS is PC "A" running and how is it getting it's internet? If its coming into an ethernet NIC, then I'm assuming it has two NIC cards? (One for your internet and one to run the other PC into?) Is there a router upstream or do have a cable/dsl/etc modem plugged straight into it?

Without knowing this, its not possible to really give you clear step-by-steps. In the meantime, maybe this will give you a start:

Win98SE ICS: http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/ics/icstour.htm

WinXP ICS: http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/xp_ics/

(Keep in mind that while ICS will do what you want, connect two PC's together to share internet, it is known to occassionally be a little "squirrely". Using an actual hardware router, even a cheap $20 wired router, definetly makes life easier. You'll get by with ICS for just two computers, but when you want to add a third -- you'll want to consider a hardware router.)

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Message 441681 - Posted: 22 Oct 2006, 10:11:37 UTC
Last modified: 22 Oct 2006, 10:13:35 UTC

To identifiy the components incl motherboard try a utility like PCWizard, there are several others available.

If that fails a more difficult way is to read the last few blocks, of the last line of the intial startup screen, something like nnnn-xxxx-pp-qq-GA694102-F. And google your code (GA694102-F for example), the code should be a unique code to the mobo.
The example given is the code for a Gigabyte dual P3 mobo.

Andy
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Message 441626 - Posted: 22 Oct 2006, 5:47:21 UTC

ok guys i have an update,
i have tested it and it works, it picks up 256mb of ram, it has windows 98 plus installed, not sure if that is before or after 98se, no drivers for the OB graphics card so running in 16 colours. it didnt go BANG as i thought it would, having found it in tesco's carpark when it was raining, and no virii so thats a good sign.

now the tricky part, i have put in it, a network card, and another in my pc, i have a eathenet crossover cable, as i understand thats the one i need to link 2 pc's. i have installed TightVNC on my pc along with what they recommend DFMirage mirror display driver which is supported in the development version of TightVNC. This driver dramatically improves the performance of TightVNC Server under Windows 2000 and Windows XP. (maybe it wont work with win98 plus.

i still cannot find out what motherboard is in it. what free prog can i get that will tell me?

i have a linux cd with Ubuntu on it, someone told me i could use that. can i?

last but not least, step by step, idiot proof none tech talk me through linking both pc's and getting seti to run on the other one please, i know this will be a hard task for some of you, (keeping to none tech words, for me) but i have a better understanding of terms like, "the square plug" not like "the eaa365s plug" dont go looking to see what that plug is, i made it up lol and i know that "boot it" dont mean "give it a kick" but having said that, my monitor has only been dropped twice, and i backed over it once with my car, and when it wouldnt work i kicked it and fixed it. see i am tech savy at times. pmsl

i would really like yout help, and any links to anything that might help would be more than welcome.
thanx
sammie xXx
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Message 441494 - Posted: 22 Oct 2006, 0:12:36 UTC - in response to Message 441473.  
Last modified: 22 Oct 2006, 0:13:45 UTC

You might be able to upgrade the slot 1 to a 1.4ghz Celeron. That is wat I have running in one of my old slot 1 systems. The 1.4 Ghz Celereon which is based on the P3 architecture, is equal to about a 2.8Gh P4.


Certain 1.1GHz Celeron's and higher were based upon the Tualatin P3 core, which required specific chipset support. Being that the Tualatin was released around the same time as the P4s and Intel was already getting to release their updated Socket 478 P4s, hardly any P3 boards supported the Tualatin core, but there's still a change.

I only state the above because the chance is slim, so I wouldn't get my hopes up. By the way, the Celeron 1.4GHz wasn't as fast as a P4 2.8GHz, that was the P3 Tualatin 1.4GHz. The Celeron 1.4GHz was about as fast as a P4 1.9GHz. And there was not Slot 1 1.4GHz CPUs released. The fastest Slot 1 was the Pentium III 1GHz chip (the 1.1GHz was recalled). The Socket 370 chips, and certain ones only, was able to push that to 1.4GHz.
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Message 441473 - Posted: 21 Oct 2006, 23:11:45 UTC

You might be able to upgrade the slot 1 to a 1.4ghz Celeron. That is wat I have running in one of my old slot 1 systems. The 1.4 Ghz Celereon which is based on the P3 architecture, is equal to about a 2.8Gh P4.
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Message 440293 - Posted: 20 Oct 2006, 2:31:40 UTC

lots to think about then, thanx guys, i'll ask if i get stuck on something.
you're all stars
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Message 439987 - Posted: 19 Oct 2006, 16:10:21 UTC - in response to Message 439595.  

It's a little box that lets two or more PC's share the same keyboard, monitor, and mouse. Pretty handy little gadgets, but can be pricey when new. Usually you can get a good deal on one on eBay for the two and four port jobs.

One thing I should have mentioned was you may have to set the BIOS to ignore POST problems like no keyboard, no video adapter, etc. if you have to swap them back to your main box after setting up the old timer, but that's not usually a big deal either.

Alinator


Will Windows actually start without a graphics card? That could come handy :o)


Regards Hans

Windows XP pro does. that was until the PSU died, on a ten $ computer that only does a WU in 22 hours i did not need to go buy a new one, but windows did work. i was running real VNC to it.


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Message 439950 - Posted: 19 Oct 2006, 14:28:05 UTC - in response to Message 439570.  
Last modified: 19 Oct 2006, 15:07:07 UTC


can i link them together somehow? and use both cpu's on the old pc? to run nothing but seti?

glad of any imput you guys have.


Your questions were already answered well... I built a number of dual-P3's many years ago, so I'm just throwing out ideas...

No, two CPU's won't work on that board. Its not an SMP board. Build 2 PC's.

Get the brand and model number of both of those boards. BIOS, board itself, or even "CPU-Z" will tell you.

Get some reference material for the boards. The manufacturers should still have a PDF for them.

Check to see if the SL1-only board supports voltages for Coppermine P3's. Manual should tell you, CPU-Z may, or if you look on the board and can find the voltage regulator (and its a Harris chip), it will end in "BCB". Early P3 boards that had a Harris VR, that ended in "BC" only supported Katmai. (Many of the P3 boards used the Harris VR.) The SL1/370 board should be fine.

If it supports Coppermine, you can "probably" take it above 800Mhz.

Get some new CPU's for them. You can get them cheap enough that it would be well worth it. I'd probably aim for 850Mhz with the SL1 board and 1Ghz with the 370-capable board. 370 socket CPU's will be easier, and cheaper, to find than SL1. (They aren't actually all that different, electronically. The SL1 is on a card because the cache was put on different chips, while the 370 has the cache stamped right into the die of the CPU. In fact, there are "slockets" that allow you to use a 370 CPU on a SL1 port.)

You are going to have to research a bit as each board has its own particulars. Take what I wrote above in general terms. For as cheap as you can probably "double" each of your old P3 speeds, I'd say it would be worth it though. Probably get both CPU's for less than $50.

Running headless (no keyboard, mouse): Check the BIOS to see if it has this option. I'm going to say that it probably doesn't though. These boards are probably '99 and '00ish, and generally only server boards had this option then.

KVM would work, but if you don't want to have them all in close proximity of each other (or don't plan to be switching between them), just get some cheap used keyboard and mice. I saw used keyboards going for $2 at a local Microcenter. Rip out the logic board of the keyboard, plug it into the PS2, and just chuck it inside the case. Its now a standalone headless device that doesn't whine about no keyboard on boot.

OS is your call. Whatever you like and are comfortable with. If you use GNU/Linux or FreeBSD, you could do a whole range of other things with them, besides crunching SETI, that wouldn't take up much overhead. Dual purpose them to something that gives you something beneficial. I.e., maybe an email gateway for your LAN (goes out and fetchmail's all your POP3 email on a schedule, procmails them). With Apache (httpd) and a web email interface, you could integrate it all together. I have an old P3 doing just this. Nice to be able to get to all my emails, from anywhere in public, over the web. It also runs BoincPHP, allowing me to control all my Boincs from anywhere. Be sure to stay on top of security concerns though, especially when running a sendmail that is open to the outside world. Thats just one idea. Grab into the hat for more: firewalls, proxies, captive portals, file servers, whatever you want...

Controlling remotely.. Easy with Boinc. Just point your Boinc Manager to those computers. If you use Windows, BoincView is great of course. Interacting with OS... Linux and FreeBSD, SSH of course. If you want to interact with the GUI from Windows, there are free Windows XServers. Windows, VNC is free and will work fine. Or, depending on your morals, you can, uhm, "aquire" a better Windows OS that hosts Remote Desktop ("Terminal Services")...

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Message 439762 - Posted: 19 Oct 2006, 7:14:46 UTC - in response to Message 439756.  

That being said the largest I have ever seen supported 8 computers on one moniter, not sure how much it cost but I got mine for 20 bucks and it switches audio, video, keyboard and mouse to each computer.


You can get one on newegg that suports 16 machines for only about $150.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817107211

The *real* cost kicks in above the 4-way switches. It's the razor & blades model. They have a cheap box, but the cables are expensive.

i will only need to add 2 old pc's they 3rd will be picked for parts lol
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Message 439756 - Posted: 19 Oct 2006, 6:58:03 UTC - in response to Message 439740.  

That being said the largest I have ever seen supported 8 computers on one moniter, not sure how much it cost but I got mine for 20 bucks and it switches audio, video, keyboard and mouse to each computer.


You can get one on newegg that suports 16 machines for only about $150.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817107211

The *real* cost kicks in above the 4-way switches. It's the razor & blades model. They have a cheap box, but the cables are expensive.
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Message 439742 - Posted: 19 Oct 2006, 6:31:35 UTC - in response to Message 439740.  

Well if you want to run multiple PC's and only have one monitor get a KVM switch, I use one and love it.

That being said the largest I have ever seen supported 8 computers on one moniter, not sure how much it cost but I got mine for 20 bucks and it switches audio, video, keyboard and mouse to each computer.

Doh, sorry posted about a KVM right after someone else did....


sounds fun, i'll look int the store today, if it stops raining that is.

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Message 439740 - Posted: 19 Oct 2006, 6:29:20 UTC
Last modified: 19 Oct 2006, 6:30:50 UTC

Well if you want to run multiple PC's and only have one monitor get a KVM switch, I use one and love it.

That being said the largest I have ever seen supported 8 computers on one moniter, not sure how much it cost but I got mine for 20 bucks and it switches audio, video, keyboard and mouse to each computer.

Doh, sorry posted about a KVM right after someone else did....
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Message 439735 - Posted: 19 Oct 2006, 6:15:36 UTC - in response to Message 439730.  

Oh yeah, about the OS. FYI, Microsquish has stopped providing security updates for Win98 or earlier. And there are some well-known security flaws with Win98 that have never been patched. So if you insist on running Win95/8/Me, then make sure you are running those crunchers behind a NAT router (not the same as your cable-modem). Almost all modern routers are NAT. Also, Don't use that machine for browsing anything except for uploading the BOINC client. Go directly there and no side trips!


well i have 3 old pc's between 450 and 900mhz, and they would only be used for seti, nothing more, or uploading to my server, i need to see if the issue i have is an xp sp2 issue or AMD issue. when i FTP to the server.

but thanx
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