What might an alien creature really look like?

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Profile Andy Westcott
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Message 433718 - Posted: 9 Oct 2006, 19:38:45 UTC - in response to Message 433698.  

"There is an infinite number of ways that an alien could look like."

Not so sure about that Clyde, simply because of environmental constraints and the need for certain sensory equipment and locomotion - assuming we are talking about intelligent life, not any ol' slime...

I still feel it would conform to a pattern we are already familiar with, but I'd love to be proved wrong - as would most of us!
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Message 433764 - Posted: 9 Oct 2006, 20:55:00 UTC

I think it is likely to be some form of artificial intelligence - an intelligent machine. I think that is what Seti would be likely to make contact with.
As for carbon-based life, I've no idea. It might not even look like an animal. It could be a 'soup' or it might look like 'snow' or a form of energy that's intelligent.

'No one can make you inferior without your consent.'
Eleanor Roosevelt.
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Message 434018 - Posted: 10 Oct 2006, 3:17:28 UTC - in response to Message 433175.  

Andy Westcott said:
What might an alien creature really look like?


Like a worm.
Here, I've got a picture.

Dennis Rodman - The worm

/Mav

We have lingered long enough on the shores of the cosmic ocean.
We are ready at last to set sail for the stars.

(Carl Sagan)
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Message 434022 - Posted: 10 Oct 2006, 3:26:27 UTC

The way i see it is life could form into any of the things you all suggest,
but if it reaches an inteligence level where it is transmitting radio
signals into space to make contact, then it had to have met a hugh amount
of criteria during evolution.

It would have to look roughly like us. You cant grow a satalite dish on
your head. We wont know until we find them and they may not look exactly
like us but they will be very very similar.

I bet they will look just like me!!!.... Good looking...
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Message 434026 - Posted: 10 Oct 2006, 3:40:28 UTC - in response to Message 434018.  

Here, I've got a picture.

God help us all !!! ;)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 434031 - Posted: 10 Oct 2006, 3:45:23 UTC

Jeffrey, you hardly think they would be as ugly as you!!
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Message 434108 - Posted: 10 Oct 2006, 9:43:27 UTC
Last modified: 10 Oct 2006, 9:44:53 UTC

Take the humble octopus - it is said to be intelligent as molluscs go, but it doesn't make tools or manipulate its environment to any degree. Neither do dolphins for that matter. So what's the difference? I've no idea.


Good point, Andy... intelligent life HAS to have a motivation to develop in the first place. If the environment is such that reasoning thought is unnecessary to survival, intelligence won't evolve.
homo sapiens evolved from an ape-like animal that was forced, for some reason, to come down from the trees. This human ancestor was slower on it's feet than most predators, so it became cunning. The origin of intelligence.
Give an octopus, for example, a NEED to manipulate it's environment or die, and it will evolve intelligence to a higher level, or it's line will become extinct.

I would say there are certain pre-requisites for an organism to develop technology, which is not the same as intelligence.

For example, limbs which can manipulate tools, and a versatile communication system may be critical elements for the development of higher intelligence. An octopus (to use my earlier example, not just to push a point) has limbs that could certainly manipulate tools, but does it have a sophisticated enough mechanism for communicating? I think not, since they are solitary creatures, and therefore have no need to communicate beyond: "Hi cutie, I'm magnificent and worth mating with" or: "Come nearer, and something unpleasant will happen!"

So, it may be that only pack or herd animals can develop technological intelligence.



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Message 434264 - Posted: 10 Oct 2006, 20:40:51 UTC - in response to Message 434022.  

The way i see it is life could form into any of the things you all suggest,
but if it reaches an inteligence level where it is transmitting radio
signals into space to make contact, then it had to have met a hugh amount
of criteria during evolution.

It would have to look roughly like us. You cant grow a satalite dish on
your head. We wont know until we find them and they may not look exactly
like us but they will be very very similar.

I bet they will look just like me!!!.... Good looking...



They will almost certainly look like me. I'll probably get kidnapped.
'No one can make you inferior without your consent.'
Eleanor Roosevelt.
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Message 434381 - Posted: 11 Oct 2006, 2:01:34 UTC - in response to Message 433175.  

What might an alien creature really look like?
I've occasionally pondered this. Aliens are often depicted in sci-fi as essentially humanoid in appearance, with a head on top and a couple of legs.

I wonder if in fact they might look like this? After all, given the idea of panspermia, it is possible that DNA on an alien planet could well be related to ours.

Take a dinosaur for example. No-one on first thought would consider a T-Rex to be anything like a human, but actually the similarites are striking: Two hind legs, two fore legs. Ribs, backbone, even a radius and ulna (forearm bones.)

The only life forms which really bear no similarites with us are plants.

Just what form do you lot think an intelligent alien might take - from a scientific view?


We meet all the criteria obveously (l must brush up on my spelling)
why do we assume we are of average intelegence in the cosmic structure of life

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Message 434469 - Posted: 11 Oct 2006, 8:37:40 UTC - in response to Message 434264.  

They will almost certainly look like me. I'll probably get kidnapped.


So you mean intelligent ETs will have to use raincoats and umbrellas???

lol just pulling your leg! :)
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Message 434639 - Posted: 11 Oct 2006, 16:59:22 UTC - in response to Message 434108.  

I would say there are certain pre-requisites for an organism to develop technology, which is not the same as intelligence.


Survival is not compulsory, and intelligence does NOT guarantee survival nor necessarily assist.

Our form of intelligence gave us an advantage over other lifeforms for a while, while living in small villages with lots of resources. However, our growth on this planet is unprecedented, and our evolutionary traits are faced with challenges for which they have never prepared for.

Our intelligence has brought into existence 50,000 nuclear warheads and created countless horrible ways to die. Just one little twist of fate and we could all be history. What does intelligence then mean for survival?

Our species now puts all species at risk, judging by the number of advertising executives, hairdressers, corrupt politicians and rainforest plantation owners that have been spawned in the process.

A truly intelligent species would limit its growth to fit the environment, and not expand like bacteria until the environment catastrophically enforces a limit and the species dies out.

Viruses and bacteria are the most successful species on the planet because they reproduce and evolve to environmental stresses. Intelligence not required, and they are still ahead of us.

I really don't agree that dinosaurs were stupid, they had chance to develop their behaviour over a timescale 1000x ours. They were just unlucky, and our ancestors got their break. If the K/T event had been much bigger, then I don't think we would be here to wonder about it.

Just some thoughts...
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Message 434648 - Posted: 11 Oct 2006, 17:28:50 UTC - in response to Message 434639.  
Last modified: 11 Oct 2006, 17:28:56 UTC


A truly intelligent species would limit its growth to fit the environment, and not expand like bacteria until the environment catastrophically enforces a limit and the species dies out.

I consider the Universe as our environment. We have plenty room to grow if we can get off this planet in a sustainable manner sometime soon. I personally would not mind if a bigger chunk of my taxes went to NASA or Branson to get it going.

TEAM
LL
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Message 434659 - Posted: 11 Oct 2006, 17:55:35 UTC - in response to Message 434648.  


A truly intelligent species would limit its growth to fit the environment, and not expand like bacteria until the environment catastrophically enforces a limit and the species dies out.

I consider the Universe as our environment. We have plenty room to grow if we can get off this planet in a sustainable manner sometime soon. I personally would not mind if a bigger chunk of my taxes went to NASA or Branson to get it going.


Yes, you are right that the universe is our environment, but still hopelessly unreachable. Getting off this planet is an enormous IF and one that isn't based in the current reality that we might not survive long enough to be able to take that step.
This would however be a tragedy.

With pressures on society to deal with diseases, food, water shortages, ever decreasing habitable land and increasing conflicts, governments will have ever diminishing resources to put into space research.

It may be hundreds of years before we can successfully colonise the Moon or Mars for example, but then we are just delaying the inevitable realisation that humans have to mend their old ways in order to live sustainably and in harmony. (Bit like buying bigger hard disks postpones the day when you have to sit down and do a proper organised sortout!)

There really is nowhere else for lightyears around that is as ideal to live as on Earth, even if it is full of idiots, and I really don't want to have to leave it!

Andy.
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Message 434841 - Posted: 12 Oct 2006, 0:43:12 UTC

On dolphins and intelligence, a quote (not verbatim) that I always liked:

"Humans think they are more intelligent than the dolphin because they have developed cell phones, digital watches, and methods to split the atom while the dolphin just playfully frolics in the sea. The dolphin, however, considers himself to be more intelligent for the exact same reasons."


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Message 435145 - Posted: 12 Oct 2006, 15:00:21 UTC - in response to Message 434841.  

On dolphins and intelligence, a quote (not verbatim) that I always liked:

"Humans think they are more intelligent than the dolphin because they have developed cell phones, digital watches, and methods to split the atom while the dolphin just playfully frolics in the sea. The dolphin, however, considers himself to be more intelligent for the exact same reasons."


Nice... I think that could only have come from the pen of Douglas Adams!
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Message 435250 - Posted: 12 Oct 2006, 19:46:20 UTC - in response to Message 435145.  

It did - The hitch-Hiker's Guide To Th Galaxy.

A good read, and he incorporates some other worthwhile, but slightly disguised, digs at the human race.

Quote from yorkieron:
"why do we assume we are of average intelegence in the cosmic structure of life?"

We shouldn't.
There could be an intelligence out there which 'Looks upon us as we might look upon the microbes which teem and multiply in a drop of water....'

A serious possibility indeed, which we should be prepared for.

There are many religions around the world which have some kind of overseeing super-intelligence or supreme being - could this be an echo of the truth?

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Message 435463 - Posted: 13 Oct 2006, 3:53:29 UTC - in response to Message 435250.  
Last modified: 13 Oct 2006, 3:53:44 UTC

It did - The hitch-Hiker's Guide To Th Galaxy.

A good read, and he incorporates some other worthwhile, but slightly disguised, digs at the human race.


That series was the most incisive piece of satire of the entire 20th Century!

Specific targets included big business and government, as well as the judiciary.

I have read the books several times, and still laugh myself silly every time I think of them. :)
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Message 435465 - Posted: 13 Oct 2006, 3:55:21 UTC - in response to Message 435145.  
Last modified: 13 Oct 2006, 3:55:50 UTC

On dolphins and intelligence, a quote (not verbatim) that I always liked:

"Humans think they are more intelligent than the dolphin because they have developed cell phones, digital watches, and methods to split the atom while the dolphin just playfully frolics in the sea. The dolphin, however, considers himself to be more intelligent for the exact same reasons."


Nice... I think that could only have come from the pen of Douglas Adams!


'...an ape-descended bipedal life form that is so amazingly primitive, they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea."
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Message 435478 - Posted: 13 Oct 2006, 4:41:24 UTC - in response to Message 435250.  

It did - The hitch-Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy.

A good read, and he incorporates some other worthwhile, but slightly disguised, digs at the human race.

Actually very thinly disguised!


Quote from yorkieron:
"why do we assume we are of average intelegence in the cosmic structure of life?"

We shouldn't.
There could be an intelligence out there which 'Looks upon us as we might look upon the microbes which teem and multiply in a drop of water....'

A serious possibility indeed, which we should be prepared for.

Indeed... a nice quote from HG Wells... :)


There are many religions around the world which have some kind of overseeing super-intelligence or supreme being - could this be an echo of the truth?


I wouldn't assume so, 10 billion lemmings *can* be wrong.

We have neural networks programmed to make sense of patterns and categorize things even if they don't actually exist. Anything that doesn't fit our everyday experience gets put into the God box, and lo... a self-supporting theology comes into being based on nothing but superstition and invented circular logic with absolutely no substantiable proof, which is then force fed as The Truth to others with no capacity or environment to question it.

This is one thing that makes humans, um.. human, and me ashamed to be one of them!
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Message 435590 - Posted: 13 Oct 2006, 12:40:12 UTC
Last modified: 13 Oct 2006, 12:41:45 UTC

A number of posts in here show that many people don't understand evolution and its random aspects.

You should read "Wonderful Life' by Steven J. Gould.

One of his proponents about the Burgess Shale is that other unrelated and mysterious forms existing in that early fossil assemblage could have, by random occurance, dominated instead. Then life evolving from that form might look vastly different today.

(It is no suprise at all that a T Rex has the same bones humans do. We both evolved from a common ancestor millions of years ago, which dragged itself out of the oceans and onto the lands - a safer environment at the time.)

This is in fact one of many (although a very strong one)proofs that evolution has occured.

Evolution, even if proceeding from the same basic building blocks, would be vastly different in another planet. Sure you might find analagous forms through convergent evolution, just as birds, bats, and insects all look vaguely similar. But the forms themselves would be quite different.
I believe the recent 'War of the Worlds' illustrated this nicely -aliens with sets of three appendages. Indeed vaguely humanoid, since the same engineering problems must be solved, but still quite alien. Of course, it is extremely doubtful that an earth organism could invade an alien so effectively, or vice versa. Obviously those invaders would carry germs of their own, wouldn't they???

Understanding evolution is very important. Many people choose to 'believe' in evolution, but this is no better than believing in a god. You must investigate, learn, and understand how evolution has occured. See it for yourself. Then you will instead know that evolution has occured, and there will be no element of 'belief' anywhere in it.
Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.
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