Was hard to know how they compare because clock rates are completely different and they've scrapped the old numbering system.

Generally a Core 2 Duo CPU is twice as fast & uses half the power of it's equivalent P4 CPU.

... anyone plug one of these into their Kill-A-Watt yet?

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Yeah, people have :o)

You may find this review (select other pages from the link) interesting. The link points directly at "Power Usage & Performance Scaling" and contrasts Core Duo, Core 2 Duo and Pentium-D systems.

Regards,
Simon.

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Forget Core 2 Duo, I'd rather have a Kentsfield cpu(even If It has limited overclocking or not), But for the moment I'll just build a system using the Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 motherboard, Or I may finish the other two existing PCs and buy all but the cpu and wait for the Kentsfield, That will be enough for Me.

Ah, but most people cannot afford $1000.00 or so for a cpu, so don't forget core 2 duo!! Core 2 quad (Kentsfield) will be really cool when it comes out, but for most folks, core 2 duo is the way to go.

Well I meant for Me(I lose My concentration here and there), From what I've read the X6800 is to be replaced with the Kentsfield cpu as the new extreme cpu(don't know if this is true really), Even If It were to only go to 3.5GHz on air It would be faster than what I have now. Most possibly can't afford the X6800 either for that matter.

[b]People on these threads have overclocked the Core 2 E6700 (@2.66GHZ) to 3.75GHz on air cooling! Indeed they O/C their Z6800 to the same extent with similar WU crunch times on each core (of about 0.85 hrs).

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It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues

People on these threads have overclocked the Core 2 E6700 (@2.66GHZ) to 3.75GHz on air cooling! Indeed they O/C their Z6800 to the same extent with similar WU crunch times on each core (of about 0.85 hrs)

Oh please stop your making me drool. It's gonna make a mess of my keyboard.

Core 2 Duo is a brand name by Intel - Dual-Core is a generic description meaning two separate physical cores in one chip package.

HTH,
Simon.

My understanding is that the Core 2 Duo ius actually the laptop version of the P4D 800/900 series (dual core) and is more energy efficient simply because it's a more 'militaristic" dual core...at least as explained by a mega computer geek to me.

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It wasn't a Conroe... a Kentsfield or a Woodcrest 4 CPU Xeon box :)

Thanks, Saimek. Somebody had misinformed us about the Conroe, then. I don't remember seeing a "Xeon" anywhere connected to Gurra's machine. Right now when I look at the "Top Computers" I still see the Macs on top. In #6 and 7 I see 2600 and 2700 for four-threaded Pentiums and another Pentium down at about #15 at about 2000RAC. I do see some Xeons in the mix on Page 1. I can conclude that Conroes are considerably better, but not 2.5x as good as, D950s. Maybe if the Conroes were highly overclocked they could possibly do >1.5X a stock-speed D950. My stock-speed P950 does about 1100RAC when it's on about 22.5 hours per day and using Cas 5, DDR2-667 memory.

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I appear to have the top performing core 2 duo at the moment (these things can be short lived) with my oc'd X6800 in the 22nd spot in 'top computers'. It's been online for about 3 weeks now, so I would guess my RAC is about starting to max out. Go Conroe!

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

I appear to have the top performing core 2 duo at the moment (these things can be short lived) with my oc'd X6800 in the 22nd spot in 'top computers'. It's been online for about 3 weeks now, so I would guess my RAC is about starting to max out. Go Conroe!

It's better than Mine, Although I'm doin pretty good as I approach 600,000 in Seti.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

Core 2 Duo is a brand name by Intel - Dual-Core is a generic description meaning two separate physical cores in one chip package.

HTH,
Simon.

My understanding is that the Core 2 Duo ius actually the laptop version of the P4D 800/900 series (dual core) and is more energy efficient simply because it's a more 'militaristic" dual core...at least as explained by a mega computer geek to me.

That "mega computer geek" is incorrect. The Core 2 Duo Conroes are the desktop versions of the Pentium 4/Pentium Ds. They are more energy efficient because they were made from the ground up to be, seeing as Intel was hitting the power ceiling on some of it's CPUs within large corporations. They had to cut power consumption because some localities have power restrictions on companies and only allow them to consume so many kilowatt hours. If these companies need more processing power but have already run into this restriction, you start looking at less power-hungry chips, such as those from your rival competitor. Intel, in order to stay competitive, had to produce a much more environment friendly CPU. Besides, Intel did have a 10GHz Pentium 4 in their labs, but the power requirements were above that which any motherboard could feed without burning up. The circuits on the motherboards were overloading. Plugging in a more powerful power supply didn't help, as it wasn't a power supply issue, but rather too much power flowing through the motherboard.

It is the Core 2 Duo "Meroms" that are the laptop versions of the Conroes. Kentsfield is the server version of this new architecture.

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Well,

not 100% on the money, but close :)

P4s and P-Ds are one family of chips - P-Ds are basically just two P4s stuck on one chip package.

Core and Core 2 variants are not based or derived from the P4 family; rather, they were developped by taking a P3 core and adding lots of features on to it.

Of course, they don't resemble P3s much anymore, but that's where they came from.

So - to try and clarify again:

Pentium 4 family

• Desktop - P4
  
• Mobile - P4m
  
• Server - Xeon
  

Core family

• Desktop - n.a. (though you can use mobile CPUs in desktop boards with a socket adapter)
  
• Mobile - Core Solo/Duo
  
• Server - n.a.
  

Core 2 family

• Desktop - Conroe (Core 2 Duo 6xxx)
  
• Mobile - Merom (unreleased, maybe Centrino 2 Solo/Duo? so far, no single core variant spotted)
  
• Server - Woodcrest (Xeon 51xx)
  

HTH,
Simon.

---

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Well,

not 100% on the money, but close :)

P4s and P-Ds are one family of chips - P-Ds are basically just two P4s stuck on one chip package.

Core and Core 2 variants are not based or derived from the P4 family; rather, they were developped by taking a P3 core and adding lots of features on to it.

Of course, they don't resemble P3s much anymore, but that's where they came from.

Yes, that is more accurate, but I presumed that since I explained this earlier, a verbatim repeat wasn't/shouldn't be necessary.

From my first post in this thread:

The Pentium D is simply two Pentium 4 Prescott cpus inefficiently paired together and ran as dual core.

The Core Duo is Intel's first generation dual core processor based upon the Pentium M (a Pentium III-4 hybrid) made mostly for laptops (though a few motherboard manufacturers have released desktop boards supporting the Core Duo CPU), and is much more efficiently than Pentium D.

The Core 2 Duo is Intel's second generation (hence, Core 2) processor made for desktops and laptops ("Merom") designed from the ground up to be fast while not consuming nearly as much power as previous CPUs.

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True,
my fault for not rereading the thread from the start ;o)

Seems people are still confused about it, so I thought I'd restate it.

Regards,
Simon.

---

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Just a correction. The E6600 is actually 2.4Ghz, It's the E6700 thats 2.67Ghz.

Yes, that is correct. My mistake. 8-)

Mine too :P
Probly overclocks to that though. I hear they are amazing at overclocking.

They overclock really well. My new Core 2 Duo (a 2.4Ghz one) is currently running at 3Ghz. Zalman copper cooler on it though as Prime testing showed 1 (yes only 1) error over 24 hour torture test with the bog stock intel cooler.

Go get one today :)

Core 2 Duo is a brand name by Intel - Dual-Core is a generic description meaning two separate physical cores in one chip package.

HTH,
Simon.

My understanding is that the Core 2 Duo ius actually the laptop version of the P4D 800/900 series (dual core) and is more energy efficient simply because it's a more 'militaristic" dual core...at least as explained by a mega computer geek to me.

That "mega computer geek" is incorrect. The Core 2 Duo Conroes are the desktop versions of the Pentium 4/Pentium Ds. They are more energy efficient because they were made from the ground up to be, seeing as Intel was hitting the power ceiling on some of it's CPUs within large corporations. They had to cut power consumption because some localities have power restrictions on companies and only allow them to consume so many kilowatt hours. If these companies need more processing power but have already run into this restriction, you start looking at less power-hungry chips, such as those from your rival competitor. Intel, in order to stay competitive, had to produce a much more environment friendly CPU. Besides, Intel did have a 10GHz Pentium 4 in their labs, but the power requirements were above that which any motherboard could feed without burning up. The circuits on the motherboards were overloading. Plugging in a more powerful power supply didn't help, as it wasn't a power supply issue, but rather too much power flowing through the motherboard.

It is the Core 2 Duo "Meroms" that are the laptop versions of the Conroes. Kentsfield is the server version of this new architecture.

Yes you are correct, and had I done a wee bit of research, it'd have been very easy to find that answer out for myself.

The good news for me is it's

1) an LGA 775

2) 65 nm tech both of which my motherboard already support.

So guess how I'll be upgrading? ;)

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Core 2 is the name of the architecture family
Core 2 Duo is the name of all the 2C members of that family

Woodcrest is the server version
Conroe is the desktop version
Merom is the laptop version
The major differences are in FSB bandwidth, maximum clock rate, and TDP

Kentsfield is not a C2D. It is a C2.
Kentsfield is a Quad core server CPU implemented as a 2 die multi-chip module with auxiliary L3 cache. Each die in the MCM is a Woodcrest.
Kentsfield is not a true 4C CPU. It is a 4C MCM. That means Intel's Shared IO Bus may very well hurt performance considerably.

AMD's K8L will be the 1st true 4C die.

Useful site:
http://www.mikeshardware.co.uk

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Kentsfield is not a C2D. It is a C2.
Kentsfield is a Quad core server CPU implemented as a 2 die multi-chip module with auxiliary L3 cache. Each die in the MCM is a Woodcrest.
Kentsfield is not a true 4C CPU. It is a 4C MCM. That means Intel's Shared IO Bus may very well hurt performance considerably.

AMD's K8L will be the 1st true 4C die.

Well since Kentsfield has 4 real cores and both XP Pro x64 and x32 will work on It, Then It follows that It has 4 cpu cores as It doesn't have HT(Hyperthreading), Current Conroe 2 Duo cpus have a Shared L2 cache and It hasn't hurt them, So We shall see what the shared I/O does to performance.

As to K8L, It may be too expensive and not perform nearly as well as Kentsfield, But We shall see won't We?

---

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

Kentsfield is not a C2D. It is a C2.
Kentsfield is a Quad core server CPU implemented as a 2 die multi-chip module with auxiliary L3 cache. Each die in the MCM is a Woodcrest.
Kentsfield is not a true 4C CPU. It is a 4C MCM. That means Intel's Shared IO Bus may very well hurt performance considerably.

AMD's K8L will be the 1st true 4C die.

Well since Kentsfield has 4 real cores and both XP Pro x64 and x32 will work on It, Then It follows that It has 4 cpu cores as It doesn't have HT(Hyperthreading), Current Conroe 2 Duo cpus have a Shared L2 cache and It hasn't hurt them, So We shall see what the shared I/O does to performance.

As to K8L, It may be too expensive and not perform nearly as well as Kentsfield, But We shall see won't We?

There's a big leap in needed IO once you go off-die. 4C on the same die has a big advantage over a MCM module with 2 2C dies in it.
That's why the difference between the two approaches is so important.

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Core 2 is the name of the architecture family
Core 2 Duo is the name of all the 2C members of that family

Woodcrest is the server version
Conroe is the desktop version
Merom is the laptop version
The major differences are in FSB bandwidth, maximum clock rate, and TDP

Kentsfield is not a C2D. It is a C2.
Kentsfield is a Quad core server CPU implemented as a 2 die multi-chip module with auxiliary L3 cache. Each die in the MCM is a Woodcrest.
Kentsfield is not a true 4C CPU. It is a 4C MCM. That means Intel's Shared IO Bus may very well hurt performance considerably.

AMD's K8L will be the 1st true 4C die.

Useful site:
http://www.mikeshardware.co.uk

Perhaps you have confused Kentsfield (desktop line, 2 die, C2D-based MCM) w/ Clovertown (server line, 2 die Woodcrest-based MCM)? Kentsfield won't require FB DIMMs, which Woodcrest does (as will Clovertown). No L3 cache on Kentsfield either. Gigabyte's new GA-965P-DQ6 board for Extreme and C2D is "Quad Core Ready" meaning Kentsfield is a direct plug-in. Supposedly, the new Mac Pros which are dual processor Woodcrests, will accept Clovertown plug-ins the same way w/ a firmware update.

Latest news has Kenstfield appearing as an Extreme branded CPU at 2.66 & 1066FSB.
You are correct that there have been some prelim. indications that that the shared I/O bus reduces potential performance. AMD's 4C CPU will likely perform much better.....when it finally arrives in mid-07' as a .65 shrink. So far, however, Intel is showing that they are able to beat their initial launch schedules by moving some intros forward (like Kentsfield for Q4 06' instead of 07'). It appears they will likley introduce a .45nm shrink @ at the same time AMD releases their first retail .65nm Quad-core models in 07'.

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You are correct that there have been some prelim. indications that that the shared I/O bus reduces potential performance.

No doubt about it.
Intel's new Dual Independant Bus has improved things considerably (along with the new Core 2 Duo based CPUs) as they are now able to match & even beat the Opteron systems in Single & Dual CPU configurations.
Previously with the Xeons the more CPUs you had, the smaller the increase in performance due to the I/O bottleneck; the new Core 2 Duo based CPUs & the DIB alleviate that problem- to a point.
With system that have 4 or more CPUs, the Opterons are still untouchable due to the I/O bottleneck that still remains with the present Intel I/O architecture.

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Grant
Darwin NT

I just orderd the Core Duo 2, but don't know it it is a Conroe.

"Conroe" is simply the Project Code-Name used by Intel for the "project" that yielded the CPUs that are sold in the shops as "Core 2 Duo" as the brand name. They are the same.

Conroe is the internal Intel name that has become a very popular way of describing the Core 2 Duo CPU. This is because of Intel's marketing strategy, where they let many users have the chips at various events to see their potential. For ages, we have known about "Conroe", but only in the few months before its launch in July 2006, that Intel decided to let us all know that the brand name for "Conroe" in the shops is "Core 2 Duo".

Neil.

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