PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - Nearly two weeks after a court ordered her feeding tube removed, and after multiple, failed attempts by her parents to get the order lifted, Terri Schiavo passed away on Thursday at the age of 41.


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13 Days without Water or Food, this is no Death that i wish somebody, live or not...

Greetings from Germany NRW
Ulli S@h Berkeley's Staff Friends Club m7 ©

It is sad that Mrs. Schiavo had to go through the life in death she experienced for so many years. Now, at last, her suffering has ended.

What is utterly unconscionable is the interference by the U.S. Congress and the President to inject themselves into what should have been a family and state affair. It seems to me that this is one manifestation of the Right's attempt to enforce its reactionary agenda on the rest of the country. They would do well to pay attention to the polls which demonstrated that the majority of Americans felt that the Federal Government had no business involving itself.

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THE MOTHER OF FOOLS IS ALWAYS PREGNANT

I'M TROLLING FOR FOOLS. THIS MUST BE THE PLACE!

> PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - Nearly two weeks after a court ordered her feeding tube
> removed, and after multiple, failed attempts by her parents to get the order
> lifted, Terri Schiavo passed away on Thursday at the age of 41.
>
>
> Full Story
>
> 13 Days without Water or Food, this is no Death that i wish somebody, live or
> not...

This is no decision, I'd like to have to make for any of my next-of-kin.

But I think the last thing I want to have in that situation is a bunch of christian taliban hovering outside and insulting me. And I do not think that I want to be dragged to such a public scrutiny by shameless news outlets in an intimate and difficult situation like this.

It's a hard to decide problem on the border of dignified death and failure to render assistance. I never want to have to make this decision, and discussing it from a bureaucratic ivory tower is not comparable to the real thing.

It has to be done on a society/democracy level nevertheless, to keep some clear borders. There's a bad history in my country concerning 'lebensunwertes Leben' (life unworthy of living), and the decisions taken by some 'doctors'/bureaucrats, that would better be called killers.

But I myself do not want be be treated ad infinitum. I don't want to be cut off the lifeline the first time I need intensive care, but if I'm terminally ill, I think I'd like to have a dignified death rather then a 'living' on thousand tubes.

I have to admit, that this is a declaration I do now with no real health problems, and perhaps my personal boundaries will shift with the decline of my health. But I only can say my opinion ATM.

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Gruesse vom Saenger

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> It is sad that Mrs. Schiavo had to go through the life in death she
> experienced for so many years. Now, at last, her suffering has ended.
>
> What is utterly unconscionable is the interference by the U.S. Congress and
> the President to inject themselves into what should have been a family and
> state affair. It seems to me that this is one manifestation of the Right's
> attempt to enforce its reactionary agenda on the rest of the country. They
> would do well to pay attention to the polls which demonstrated that the
> majority of Americans felt that the Federal Government had no business
> involving itself.


I completely Agree with you, well said Jack!

Respectfully,

Rocky

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www.boincsynergy.com

> This is no decision, I'd like to have to make for any of my next-of-kin.
>
> But I think the last thing I want to have in that situation is a bunch of
> christian taliban hovering outside and insulting me. And I do not think that I
> want to be dragged to such a public scrutiny by shameless news outlets in an
> intimate and difficult situation like this.
>
> But I myself do not want be be treated ad infinitum. I don't want to be cut
> off the lifeline the first time I need intensive care, but if I'm terminally
> ill, I think I'd like to have a dignified death rather then a 'living' on
> thousand tubes.

In America, as in much of the world, you can let your wishes be known well before you are suffering from an injury that prevents you from communicating. Many, many State courts concluded that Terri's husband accurately explained what she wanted in this situation, but if it had been in writing there would have been no question. The document is called a "living will" and it can be revoked at any time and worded very strictly (so someone who is suffering a long slow death, like terminal cancer, should not be afraid that some doctor or relative will use it to get rid of them).

Even though the US Congress passed a law allowing the Federal Courts to decide this case (this is the only real bureaucratic involvement), the Federal Courts still would not overturn the long, careful judicial action that allowed Terri's body to do what her brain had done more than 15 years ago. In addition to determining that this is what Terri wanted, the courts also heard medical evidence that she was permanently in a non-responsive state. Those lower brain functions that allowed her heart to beat, her hands and other muscles to move, did not allow her to think, feel or be conscious of her surroundings on anything like the level of consciousness any of you reading this can experience. Terri's parents wanted a miracle, but Terri wanted release.

> Even though the US Congress passed a law allowing the Federal Courts to decide
> this case (this is the only real bureaucratic involvement), the Federal Courts
> still would not overturn the long, careful judicial action that allowed
> Terri's body to do what her brain had done more than 15 years ago. In
> addition to determining that this is what Terri wanted, the courts also heard
> medical evidence that she was permanently in a non-responsive state. Those
> lower brain functions that allowed her heart to beat, her hands and other
> muscles to move, did not allow her to think, feel or be conscious of her
> surroundings on anything like the level of consciousness any of you reading
> this can experience. Terri's parents wanted a miracle, but Terri wanted
> release.
>

The House passed the law, the Senate refused.. In any case this was not a matter for either House of Congress to decide. The Federal Courts did not need a law allowing them to rule on this case as there is a long history of precidence in matters of this nature.

Having lost a child I know that it is the most difficult thing a parent can face. To compound matters those muscle movements you mentioned would and could give them false hope. When we lose higher brain functions the nerves that course through our bodies are not under control and pretty much do what they want.

People see breathing and cardiac function and say ohhh there is brain function. all of this is controlled by the Medula (Brain Stem).

I was lucky in the fact that my daughter died quickly. I am not sure I could walk away from my child. All my paramedic training would tell me there was no hope, but the parent in me would fight for every second I could get..

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I'd rather speak my mind because it hurts too much to bite my tongue.

American Spirit BBQ Proudly Serving those that courageously defend freedom.

Rather than just a ho hum case that should be forgotten, some recognition of what the judges had to say is important to understand just how far some in the legislative and executive branch were willing to go to advance their 'culture of life' agenda... their so-called, 'bureaucratic involvement'.........

Judge Stanley Birch of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals took pen to paper and ensured that his opinion would become part of the official caselaw.


------------------------------------------------------
Excerpted Judge Birch comments:

In resolving the Schiavo controversy it is my judgment that, despite sincere and altruistic motivation, the legislative and executive branches of our government have acted in a manner demonstrably at odds with our Founding Fathers' blueprint for the governance of a free people - our Constitution. Since I have sworn, as have they, to uphold and defend that Covenant, I must respectfully concur in the denial of the request for rehearing en banc.

I conclude that Pub. L. 109-3 ("the Act")is unconstitutional and, therefore, this court and the district court are without jurisdiction in this case under that special Act and should refuse to exercise any jurisdiction that we may otherwise have in this case.
...

The separation of powers implicit in our constitutional design was created "to assure, as nearly as possible, that each branch of government would confine itself to its assigned responsibility." But when the fervor of political passions moves the Executive and the Legislative branches to act in ways inimical to basic constitutional principles, it is the duty of the judiciary to intervene. If sacrifices to the independence of the judiciary are permitted today, precedent is established for the constitutional transgressions of tomorrow.

pdf file
-------------------------------------
The next time that Congress and/or the President blatantly over-steps its constitutional authority as it did here, there now is case law to point to regarding the utter unconstitutionality of their attempts.

Make no mistake... Congress and the President were willing to over-rule states rights and the Constitution in order to shamelessly pander to their extremist base.

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Yesterday: Failed appeals. Today: Dead. Tomorrow: "Wrongful Death" suit against husband, court, appellate court, Governor, doctors, medical examiner, the family mascot, the President, Congress, and Supreme Court Justices, blessed by Jerry Fallwell and with Johnnie Cochran for the prosecution...

With all due respect, Sir Uli, I couldn't give half a sh¡t then, and I couldn't give even half of that now.

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> Yesterday: Failed appeals. Today: Dead. Tomorrow:
> "Wrongful Death" suit against husband, court, appellate court, Governor,
> doctors, medical examiner, the family mascot, the President, Congress, and
> Supreme Court Justices, blessed by Jerry Fallwell and with Johnnie Cochran for
> the prosecution...
>
> With all due respect, Sir Uli, I couldn't give half a sh¡t then, and I
> couldn't give even half of that now.
>

That will be one hell of a case if Johnny is going to prosecute considering he died the other day...

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I'd rather speak my mind because it hurts too much to bite my tongue.

American Spirit BBQ Proudly Serving those that courageously defend freedom.

Prosecution from beyond the grave is not beyond the belief of some of the wingers....

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hmm...I didn't realize that I was in the minority...see, I don't want to die REGARDLESS of the situation. Who cares if I'm in a coma, or a vegetable? Maybe I am having the most awesome dream ever.

Anyway, I think forcing them to not put the tube back was wrong. You know, if she ever came around, she could be mad at them for putting it back or whatever, but once she's dead, she can't be like "WTF, I wanted the damn feeding tube!". Seriously, the gov't shouldn't do something that is irreversable.

And everyone should put this into their will ASAP. That way, the government doesn't HAVE to make a decision like this.

Besides, do you really think the husband *really* thinks that that's "What she would have wanted"? I mean, it's been 15 years, and he stands to gain a HUGE insurance claim from this. And did you know that the tearing in her heart can only be caused two ways? Part of he heart was torn. This can only happen due to a specific virus (Which she didn't have) or strangulation. A few weeks before she went vegetable, a gigantic life insurance policy was taken out on her, naming her husband the benficiary, and then suddenly a few weeks later she has a problem with her heart that points to strangulation? C'mon, that's a little too convenient.

Also, stop saying that she was "suffering". As far as medical science knows, she wasn't feeling a damn thing. That's not suffering by any definition.

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That will be one hell of a case if Johnny is going to prosecute considering he died the other day...
My point exactly: The American Way of Life is to sue. I assume that the American Way of Afterlife (Because as David Bowie and Trent Reznor said "God is an American") is to sue the hell into everybody.

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> Besides, do you really think the husband *really* thinks that that's "What she
> would have wanted"? I mean, it's been 15 years, and he stands to gain a HUGE
> insurance claim from this. And did you know that the tearing in her heart can
> only be caused two ways? Part of he heart was torn. This can only happen due
> to a specific virus (Which she didn't have) or strangulation. A few weeks
> before she went vegetable, a gigantic life insurance policy was taken out on
> her, naming her husband the benficiary, and then suddenly a few weeks later
> she has a problem with her heart that points to strangulation? C'mon, that's a
> little too convenient.
>

And what forenstic school did you go to to say strangulation will tear the heart.

It will tear blood vessal in the eyes (Petechial Hemmoraging), but not the heart..

BTW if you have ever really seen someone die from strangulation the Petechial Hemmoraging is quite visible even if a person survives the strangulation attempt.

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I'd rather speak my mind because it hurts too much to bite my tongue.

American Spirit BBQ Proudly Serving those that courageously defend freedom.

She had a specific kind of heart arrhythmia. Look it up.

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This week, on CSI: SETI...

> She had a specific kind of heart arrhythmia. Look it up.
>

A Cardiac Arrhyhmia is NOT a tear her heart. It is a rhythm that is not considered normal sinus.. You look it it up..

Arrhythmias can be caused by any number of things including the Medula's
ability to maintain a NORMAL Rhythm or a normal respiratory pattern..
If you are referring to the Bradycardia that can be caused by Vagal
Stimulation you need to know that to produce such a rhythm would leave some
very visible marks. Marks that would not go away before anyone responding
to such a change on her monitor could get to her room. Furthermore the Bradycardia would go away shortly after the Vagel event stopped.

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I'd rather speak my mind because it hurts too much to bite my tongue.

American Spirit BBQ Proudly Serving those that courageously defend freedom.

> hmm...I didn't realize that I was in the minority...see, I don't want to die
> REGARDLESS of the situation. Who cares if I'm in a coma, or a vegetable? Maybe
> I am having the most awesome dream ever.

Then say that (that you DO want all measures taken) in your living will. No one can force you say that you want them to pull the plug, and you can specifically say what you want--one way or another.

> Besides, do you really think the husband *really* thinks that that's "What she
> would have wanted"? I mean, it's been 15 years, and he stands to gain a HUGE
> insurance claim from this. And did you know that the tearing in her heart can
> only be caused two ways? Part of he heart was torn. This can only happen due
> to a specific virus (Which she didn't have) or strangulation. A few weeks
> before she went vegetable, a gigantic life insurance policy was taken out on
> her, naming her husband the benficiary, and then suddenly a few weeks later
> she has a problem with her heart that points to strangulation? C'mon, that's a
> little too convenient.

As much as Terri's parents hate the husband now, if there was any CREDIBLE evidence that he killed her: 1) they would have had criminal murder/manslaughter charges brought, and 2) he wouldn't get one dime from any insurance policy. Look it up.

In fact, what is your source for your claim of a big insurance policy taken out just BEFORE she was injured?

I was thinking about something else when I wrote that, I know what it is, I just wasn't focused.

And I never said that she was suffocated while in the hospital...how the hell would that make sense? And AFAIK she didn't have monitors hooked up to her at her house.

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> I was thinking about something else when I wrote that, I know what it is, I
> just wasn't focused.
>
> And I never said that she was suffocated while in the hospital...how the hell
> would that make sense? And AFAIK she didn't have monitors hooked up to her at
> her house.
>

And you have first hand knowledge of all of this because??? I think you need to get focused before you start talking about stuff you apparently don't have real knowledge off..

If you do, provide sources for your allegations.

{EDIT] Before you answer.. NO Insurance company is going to give insurance to a person who has been in a COMA for 15 YEARS!!!![ENDEDIT]

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I'd rather speak my mind because it hurts too much to bite my tongue.

American Spirit BBQ Proudly Serving those that courageously defend freedom.

To let someone die by taking off water and food is absolutely not ok...
'nuff said...
[edit]I'm personally very sorry, she died... That's not what i'm working/living for...[/edit]

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Aloha, Uli