>>Let the lazy starve and die, then there will be more money and resources for those of us that contribute to society

this from one who sucks regularly at the teat of government largess....

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> And it was just as lousy an ending as ST:DS9's...
>
I don't remember Janeway becoming a Prohpet like Sisko.

> We went to the moon, at the time, there was no profit potential for multiple
> reasons. So, funding was cut instead of eliminating the program or raising
> taxes. Basic supply and demand.

So remind me again why we built the ISS? I don't really think profit fits into the space equation yet. Maybe it will in the future. Maybe it will when we go back to the moon this time. I agree with your basic premise that the motivation for landing on the moon evaporated after we did it. But the subsequent failing was in not developing a new motivation to build a permanent base there. I wish the ISS was more of a success, but the hard fact is that it is not.

> Have you not heard of the X-prize? New technologies are being created and
> tested as we speak by regular people in their own back-yards.

...yep and it's a good thing, it's just a shame that my tax dollars had nothing to do with it.


> You left out "at this point in time". Once upon a time, chemical propulsion
> was the "wave of the future". Not to mention, that without a space station
> (that you think we are wasting money on), the Ion drive STILL requires
> chemical propulsion.
>
> Look at it this way. On earth you can take 20 grand and buy a 2005 Ford
> Mustang with one motor or a 2005 Toyota Prius with 2 motor. it's not rocket
> science, it's about getting themost bang for your buck.

I agree, it was the wave of the future 30 years ago, not anymore however. I never meant to imply that we don't need it or that we shouldn't try to develop it further. But everyone realizes that chemical propulsion is a one trick pony and we need something more efficient and more flexible. The fastest man made object only has a velocity of something like 40km/sec relative to the earth and that speed was accomplished through through all sorts of girations and using Jupiter's gravity. That is not flexible and it's not fast enough.

> Not against Ion drives, I'm against cutting funding to programs currently in
> existence which are capable of doing the job.

Agreed, I don't want to cut traditional space flight funding but I certainly don't want to cut projects like Prometheus.

> How about we cut social aid ($305 billion spent on welfare in 1992...only stat
> I could find right now). Let the lazy starve and die, then there will be more
> money and resources for those of us that contribute to society and like the
> idea that no other nation has the military might to invade our country.

or even better yet, lets cut "welfare" programs to countries that really don't give a shit about the U.S.

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> >>Let the lazy starve and die, then there will be more money and
> resources for those of us that contribute to society
>
> this from one who sucks regularly at the teat of government largess....

Excuse me? I work for a living.

Surely you are not under the impression that working for the government is the same as leeching welfare. If you are, then let me tell you a little secret. I not only have to show up for 8 hours everyday, but I have to work overtime as well. In fact, I'm on 24 hour emergency call right now until NEXT Friday.

>So remind me again why we built the ISS?

"We" didn't build it alone. There are 16 other nations involved as well, hence the term, international. Now while it may not be profitable, it was essentially untapped science and it brought several countries together for a common cause....not to mention we HAD to have a better one than the Russians :)

>yep and it's a good thing, it's just a shame that my tax dollars had nothing to >do with it.

Not really. What's wrong with saving money until the new technologies have been perfected by folks capable of doing a job cheaper than the government? I assure you, your tax dollars will be used to "acquire" the new technologies that come to light.

>But everyone realizes that chemical propulsion is a one trick pony and we need >something more efficient and more flexible.

Again, gas power versus electric. New technologies are not always as efficient as the ones currently in use. Ion drives would be great, but never practical until we have an orbiting space station or a base on the moon. However, I agree that without funding and research, they never will become as useful as the technologies currently in use.

>or even better yet, lets cut "welfare" programs to countries that really don't >give a shit about the U.S.

W00T!! Best comment I've read all day. Welfare is welfare.

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>Excuse me? I work for a living.

so do most people...... only difference is most people don't claim that they are independant of the benefits which accrue to you through government and society.

Most people realize that they are not an independant entity unto themselves....

You deny your reliance, dependance and welfare you receive from the government and society.

You're no anarchist.... you're a just another civil servant, another cog.

Deny it if you wish, but you don't fool people with that kind of egoistic twaddle.

You benefit from the same government that we all benefit from. In some ways you benefit more than others.

That you are able in your small way to contribute to the greater good should make you feel proud of your ability to help out..... instead you begrudge those who are maybe less fortunate than you are and bitch about having to pitch in yourself.

You're a perfect example of the 'new' conservative...... you try to justify your own personal greed and conceit by cloaking it in philosophical claims of independance and claims of higher moral values.

Excuse me, .....that's pitiable.

Would that I could, I would release you from your moorings and set you adrift outside of government and societal responsibilities, and truly allow you to fend for yourself.

That you might learn what independance means......

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> Most people realize that they are not an independant entity unto
> themselves.

That's right, I have family and friends, but we are not government dependantand certainly would not starve if the union curmbled today. We've got a farm out at the camp and multiple hunting rifles


> You deny your reliance, dependance and welfare you receive from the government
> and society.

Wrong again. I am not dependant, nor do I require hand-outs from the governmnet. I'm a college educated man. That means I am more qualified than most of folks in the nations that surround the USA. Not to mention that hunting and farming are something my family does regularly.

> You're no anarchist.... you're a just another civil servant, another cog.

That's right, I'm an American. Just another cog, like you, in the greatest nation this Earth has ever known.

You guys should learn that avatars are not a reflection of the person. I certainly don't think you are a green pile of crap with hands and feet, why would you think I'm an anarchist? I'm probably the most militant patriotic person you'll ever encounter.

> You benefit from the same government that we all benefit from. In some ways
> you benefit more than others.

The "benefits" I get are justification for my low wages, but, truth be told, my benefits aren't any better than any other job with benefits.

> That you are able in your small way to contribute to the greater good should
> make you feel proud of your ability to help out..... instead you begrudge
> those who are maybe less fortunate than you are and bitch about having to
> pitch in yourself.

Spoken like someone who's never set foot in the projects. You're a fool if you think even half of our tenants are truely in need instead of just lazy, orlike you, feel the government owes them something simply because they exist.

> You're a perfect example of the 'new' conservative...... you try to justify
> your own personal greed and conceit by cloaking it in philosophical claims of
> independance and claims of higher moral values.

Just because I don't like seeing my money wasted on someone fully capable of hold down a job doesn'tmean I am greedy. I claim 0 dependants buddy. That means the government holds the maxium amount out of every paycheck. Not only am I working to better my community, I'm also paying more money than is required of me. If that's what you call greed, then you need to pick up a dictionary.


> Would that I could, I would release you from your moorings and set you adrift
> outside of government and societal responsibilities, and truly allow you to
> fend for yourself.
>
> That you might learn what independance means.

34 year old white male. Do you REALLY think I'm opposed to mob rule? I support my country because I can't defend myself from foreign armies, not because I am incapable of fending for myself.

Nice try liberal, but I really don't care what folks like you think about me or my country.

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>not dependantand certainly would not starve if the union curmbled today. We've
> got a farm out at the camp and multiple hunting rifles

so you can grow some food, you doing it with mules and plows? You aren't using gas or electricity I hope. Your 'farm' is on the grid, or you're packing in fuel brainsmushed. That's called being dependant.

who's critters are you gonna kill? You think you're some kind of Robin Hood who only kills the king's deer? Those critters on public land all belong to the commons, you kill and eat one and you're dependant on the commons. You must raise all your own critters to 'hunt' with your 'hunting' rifle.

You don't live a self sufficient agrarian life of subsistence, so you can stop with your gentleman farmer pose.


I said, "You deny your reliance, dependance and welfare you receive from the government and society." ...... and you answer by saying;

>>>Wrong again. I am not dependant, nor do I require hand-outs from the
> governmnet. I'm a college educated man. That means I am more qualified than
.> most of folks in the nations that surround the USA. Not to mention that
> hunting and farming are something my family does regularly.

You merely contradict yourself by saying I'm wrong and then reconfirm what I said. That's fairly illogical of you...... but, nonetheless, "Thanks for clearly demonstrating my point."

You drive on the same publicly funded roads, work on publicly funded projects, took advantage of publicly funded education, (though I believe your education was definately hampered by your schooling), more examples of your dependance.

>I'm probably the most militant patriotic
> person you'll ever encounter.

You are one of the most blinded nationalistic persons I have encountered, ...........patriotic.... you're not. You need to learn to differentiate between those two words, brainsmushed, ....they mean different things, they aren't interchangeable according to your whim.


> The "benefits" I get are justification for my low wages, but, truth be told,
> my benefits aren't any better than any other job with benefits.

Your 'low' wages are much higher than many, many people, you add in your 'benefits' that you admit to and it's certain that you benefit more than most in your demographic with your government sponsored nail pounding job.

What you deny is all around you, the laws that protect you from those shrewder or more powerful, the police and military that protect you, the infrastructure paid for by the public, ....it goes on and on, ....there is not a step you take that someone hasn't cleared the way for you.

You're not independant, you're a piece of the whole. A bitter and whiny one, but a mere lowly dependant member of society like the rest of us.



>I claim 0 dependants buddy. That
> means the government holds the maxium amount out of every paycheck. Not
> only am I working to better my community, I'm also paying more money than is
> required of me. If that's what you call greed, then you need to pick up a
> dictionary.

Right, and we'll have the auditor come round and make sure you pay your share....

..... you demonstrate and declare your greed freely, there's no need for me to have to prove anything, you post it all the time.

> 34 year old white male. Do you REALLY think I'm opposed to mob rule?

I spoke not of mob rule..... the rest of us will do fine without you. I only spoke of setting you off by yourself so that you might experience the 'independance' you claim.

>I support my country because I can't defend myself from foreign armies, not
> because I am incapable of fending for myself.

You prove my point once again, more dependance.


>I really don't care

Nice try, brainsmushed, but if you didn't care you wouldn't spend so much time trying to justify your inane delusions.

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